My new, compact Atari -> VGA adapter.

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Re: My new, compact Atari -> VGA adapter.

Postby spiny » Tue Aug 01, 2017 7:11 pm

youtube link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-5mGjmAESM

notsure why the tags aren't working, you typed it right, i'll see if i can spot why.

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Re: My new, compact Atari -> VGA adapter.

Postby ube » Tue Aug 01, 2017 7:16 pm

Seems to work now. First time i used youtube-bbcode with the full link within the tags, didn't work.
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Re: My new, compact Atari -> VGA adapter.

Postby mpattonm » Tue Aug 01, 2017 8:54 pm

EmuTOS guys are currently discussing possibility to enable transparent mode switing within EmuTOS itself, if they decide to do so, even a passive DIN13_2_VGA converters and dual mode cables will work this way.

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Re: My new, compact Atari -> VGA adapter.

Postby troed » Tue Aug 01, 2017 9:07 pm

mpattonm wrote:EmuTOS guys are currently discussing possibility to enable transparent mode switing within EmuTOS itself, if they decide to do so, even a passive DIN13_2_VGA converters and dual mode cables will work this way.


Not sure what you mean with passive. The actual pins in the monitor port used are different between color and mono (either RGB pins or the mono pin) so ubeswitch VI detects which resolution is currently used and selects which pins to forward on to the monitor. All other existing cables use a physical switch and so would not be a sw-only solution even if EmuTOS/MoCo the wrapper etc try to take care of the sw side of things.

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Re: My new, compact Atari -> VGA adapter.

Postby ube » Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:48 pm

The switch will be available from Exxos' store by next week, hopefully I have to add; ran out of HD15-connectors and I've just placed an order with Mouser. Hopefully they will be here by Monday so I can send a bunch of them over to the UK.

https://www.exxoshost.co.uk/atari/last/storenew/#0107
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Re: My new, compact Atari -> VGA adapter.

Postby leech » Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:53 pm

Very Nice!
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Re: My new, compact Atari -> VGA adapter.

Postby Atari030 » Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:32 pm

Holy cow. Actually, more like holy grail. If you could compliment/combine overscan it would be the end all and be all of everything ST video.

In saying that, this is bloody neat.

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Re: My new, compact Atari -> VGA adapter.

Postby ube » Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:57 pm

And "as usual" schematics and board layout available here: https://github.com/planeturban/ubeswitc ... master/mk6

Oh, and my "very smart" code.
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Re: My new, compact Atari -> VGA adapter.

Postby Atari030 » Wed Aug 16, 2017 12:31 am

Just a thought, would it be possible to internally modify the mono detect pin with a gate that can be switched in software? Just send it high or low from an application?

Another thought, remove the 13 pin socket and replace it with a 15 pin socket. In theory you could deisgn a PCB that drops into the existing holes on the motherboard and contains all that is required.

Hmmm.

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Re: My new, compact Atari -> VGA adapter.

Postby ube » Wed Aug 16, 2017 1:39 am

You can switch by software, this version handles it. Have a look at the YouTube link at the top of this page. Troed launches a low res application from high res and the switch automagically switch to low res.

If you mean a dsub hd15 socket: Yes, one could. But why? One would have to modify the case as well. And you would lose composite out in the process, audio out as well if you’re running on a ST(FM).
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Re: My new, compact Atari -> VGA adapter.

Postby Atari030 » Wed Aug 16, 2017 2:00 am

I was thinking more of a desk acc or the like that could switch resolutions by toggling the mono detect line. It would force a reboot, but it would be pretty cool. I can't quite get my head around how troed's ttp works. But, it is one of the neatest tricks I have ever seen on an ST.

I have a couple of spare ST's, one pretty heavily modded. Replacing the socket, modding the case and adding a couple of RCA's would be OK for me. But, a single soldered drop in pcb would be possible. I think I will investigate and give it a crack.

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Re: My new, compact Atari -> VGA adapter.

Postby ube » Wed Aug 16, 2017 2:09 am

He disabled the reboot and does a resolution switch, just like low to med. it’s just four lines of assembler code to switch resolutions so an act is not a problem. ;)

Keep in mind that the DIN socket is very close to the edge so your have to make some kind of two stories design; a HD15 won’t fit on a PCB mounted directly on the motherboard.
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Re: My new, compact Atari -> VGA adapter.

Postby Atari030 » Wed Aug 16, 2017 2:41 am

Yup, got it. Impressive bit of software, to do that. I'll grab one of these when I can too. I love the simplicity.

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Re: My new, compact Atari -> VGA adapter.

Postby troed » Wed Aug 16, 2017 7:32 am

Troed is still developing the software in that video, which is really tricky* and hijacks a bunch of TOS stuff :P It's my intention to have a shortlist of apps which work as they should, and hopefully then continue expanding.

(A desk acc which just switches resolution _with reboot_ is easy)

/Troed

*) You have to fool the apps that they're starting in the resolution they were written for, while at the same time switching both back and forth from the resolution you initiated, _and_ you need to keep TOS/GEM/AES/VDI happy since it definitely is unable to switch out its internal data structures on the fly and will happily bomb out ...

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Re: My new, compact Atari -> VGA adapter.

Postby Atari030 » Wed Aug 16, 2017 7:39 am

Understood. Both options would be pretty useful if they were available. I was thinking a desk acc which you can select low/med/high. Add that to emuTOS or patch 2.06. 8) No one would have dreamt of doing this 30 years ago.

So is this ScreenblaSTer? :P

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Re: My new, compact Atari -> VGA adapter.

Postby spiny » Wed Aug 16, 2017 8:09 am

ube wrote:The switch will be available from Exxos' store by next week, hopefully I have to add; ran out of HD15-connectors and I've just placed an order with Mouser. Hopefully they will be here by Monday so I can send a bunch of them over to the UK.

https://www.exxoshost.co.uk/atari/last/storenew/#0107


nice work, will be getting at least one of these as soon as they are in stock :)

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Re: My new, compact Atari -> VGA adapter.

Postby mikro » Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:02 am

troed wrote:You have to fool the apps that they're starting in the resolution they were written for, while at the same time switching both back and forth from the resolution you initiated, _and_ you need to keep TOS/GEM/AES/VDI happy since it definitely is unable to switch out its internal data structures on the fly and will happily bomb out ...

As a coder I appreciate the beauty of this but ... isn't this just a waste of (your) resources? What's wrong with patching, say, the desktop resolution dialog and let the user choose appropriate resolution, similarly as PeP did with his SuperVidel driver?

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Re: My new, compact Atari -> VGA adapter.

Postby dhedberg » Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:25 am

mikro wrote:As a coder I appreciate the beauty of this but ... isn't this just a waste of (your) resources? What's wrong with patching, say, the desktop resolution dialog and let the user choose appropriate resolution, similarly as PeP did with his SuperVidel driver?

For any serious work (copying files, running any GEM application, etc.) ST-High is the preferred resolution. However, once in a while you need to start that soundtracker (or whatever) that only runs in ST-Medium/ST-Low. Having to reset the computer to do so would mean you'll lose any open windows, etc. Now with Troed's little nifty program you can run the soundtracker and return to your desktop in ST-High with the open windows still there, just as before.
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Re: My new, compact Atari -> VGA adapter.

Postby mikro » Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:59 am

dhedberg wrote:
mikro wrote:As a coder I appreciate the beauty of this but ... isn't this just a waste of (your) resources? What's wrong with patching, say, the desktop resolution dialog and let the user choose appropriate resolution, similarly as PeP did with his SuperVidel driver?

For any serious work (copying files, running any GEM application, etc.) ST-High is the preferred resolution. However, once in a while you need to start that soundtracker (or whatever) that only runs in ST-Medium/ST-Low. Having to reset the computer to do so would mean you'll lose any open windows, etc. Now with Troed's little nifty program you can run the soundtracker and return to your desktop in ST-High with the open windows still there, just as before.

Yes, I get this. What I meant that he would apply his clever idea to the desktop dialog only, therefore he wouldn't need to worry about compatibility with all the apps/games executed with the TTP.

It would be the same as with the Falcon: a demo doesn't run on VGA, so you just switch to RGB. Here it would be super easy, just go to resolution dialog and change it (without reboot). I think it doesn't make sense to try to lie to the OS that the resolution hasn't changed. Since TOS4 there's even proper AES message for resolution change, nothing terrible about it.

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Re: My new, compact Atari -> VGA adapter.

Postby Greenious » Wed Aug 16, 2017 12:04 pm

troed wrote:Troed is still developing the software in that video, which is really tricky* and hijacks a bunch of TOS stuff :P It's my intention to have a shortlist of apps which work as they should, and hopefully then continue expanding.

(A desk acc which just switches resolution _with reboot_ is easy)

/Troed

*) You have to fool the apps that they're starting in the resolution they were written for, while at the same time switching both back and forth from the resolution you initiated, _and_ you need to keep TOS/GEM/AES/VDI happy since it definitely is unable to switch out its internal data structures on the fly and will happily bomb out ...


Lol, when did you start referring to yourself in third person... :D

Have you looked at the overscan/lacescan drivers how they do it? LaceScan also works with virtual resolutions.
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Re: My new, compact Atari -> VGA adapter.

Postby dhedberg » Wed Aug 16, 2017 12:31 pm

mikro wrote:
dhedberg wrote:
mikro wrote:As a coder I appreciate the beauty of this but ... isn't this just a waste of (your) resources? What's wrong with patching, say, the desktop resolution dialog and let the user choose appropriate resolution, similarly as PeP did with his SuperVidel driver?

For any serious work (copying files, running any GEM application, etc.) ST-High is the preferred resolution. However, once in a while you need to start that soundtracker (or whatever) that only runs in ST-Medium/ST-Low. Having to reset the computer to do so would mean you'll lose any open windows, etc. Now with Troed's little nifty program you can run the soundtracker and return to your desktop in ST-High with the open windows still there, just as before.

Yes, I get this. What I meant that he would apply his clever idea to the desktop dialog only, therefore he wouldn't need to worry about compatibility with all the apps/games executed with the TTP.
It would be the same as with the Falcon: a demo doesn't run on VGA, so you just switch to RGB. Here it would be super easy, just go to resolution dialog and change it (without reboot). I think it doesn't make sense to try to lie to the OS that the resolution hasn't changed. Since TOS4 there's even proper AES message for resolution change, nothing terrible about it.

When you switch resolution using the resolution change dialog, the desktop is restored to what's in your desktop.inf/newdesk.inf. That's avoided with Troed's program.
Troed's program doesn't have to reinitialize the AES/VDI, etc. as it's targeting software that does not make use of AES/VDI, such as soundtrackers, or a demo/game with a clean exit, etc. At least that's my understanding.
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Re: My new, compact Atari -> VGA adapter.

Postby troed » Wed Aug 16, 2017 2:47 pm

mikro wrote:What's wrong with patching, say, the desktop resolution dialog and let the user choose appropriate resolution


I think someone else is working on that, for use with this adapter ;) But as dhedberg pointed out, my approach will still have some utility.

Greenious wrote:Have you looked at the overscan/lacescan drivers how they do it? LaceScan also works with virtual resolutions.


Init at boot, right? That's "easy" :P

/Troed

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Re: My new, compact Atari -> VGA adapter.

Postby ube » Wed Aug 23, 2017 9:13 pm

Heads up: I sent a small batch to Exxos this Monday, so any day now. :D
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Re: My new, compact Atari -> VGA adapter.

Postby ube » Thu Aug 24, 2017 11:58 am

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Re: My new, compact Atari -> VGA adapter.

Postby leech » Thu Aug 24, 2017 5:47 pm

Sweet, ordered one, along with some other things from Exxos's store. Hopefully it doesn't charge me twice, the first time it said my card was denied, I'm assuming I mistyped a number.
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