What CPU booster combination do people want ?

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What CPU booster combination do people want ?

STFM 68000 32mhz TOS104
23
12%
STFM 020 32mhz TOS206
15
8%
MEGA 68000 32mhz TOS104
10
5%
MEGA 020 32mhz TOS206
20
11%
STE 68000 32mhz TOS206
40
21%
STE 020 32mhz TOS206
44
23%
MSTE 68000 32mhz TOS 206
11
6%
MSTE 020 32mhz TOS206
26
14%
 
Total votes: 189

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Re: What CPU booster combination do people want ?

Postby Cyprian » Sat Jan 02, 2016 8:21 pm

rpineau wrote:The TOS 3.06 that is used on the PAK board is patched (I would be interested by a patched TOS 3.06 US ... to test, if someone has that).


You can find PAK TOS 3.06 image on that page: http://atari.wroclaw.pl/tos.html
In that section:

Code: Select all

PAK-TOS 3.06 NOWOŚĆ - wersja systemu dla akceleratora PAK'030.
        podobnie jak powyższe, jest to tłumaczenie z języka niemieckiego. System rozpoznawany jako UK, układ klawiatury USA, dodane polskie czcionki.
        obraz IMG (bez relokacji)
        obraz IMG (po relokacji) do użycia z loaderem
        pliki do zaprogramowania epromów: U10, U11, U12, U13

        ten TOS działa także z PAK-iem w wersji z procesorem 68020 (sprawdzone osobiście) !!
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Re: What CPU booster combination do people want ?

Postby frank.lukas » Sat Jan 02, 2016 8:34 pm

TOSPATCH from Markus Heiden can do the PAK (MC68030) patches -> http://www.markusheiden.de/atari/tospatch.html
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Re: What CPU booster combination do people want ?

Postby DarkLord » Sun Jan 03, 2016 9:17 am

frank.lukas wrote:The PAK68/3 have a MC68030 CPU with PMMU so TOS 3.06 is a must have thing ...

No need of TOS 3.06 for a MC68020 CPU, TOS 2.06 is fine. Most STs have toS 2.06 already, so a 020CPU in a normal ST is also fine. The was also a 32bit TOS 2.06 for the PAK68/2 with 020 CPU ...


You can also use TOS v2.06 with the Pak board. It has to be located on the ST though, not on the Pak board itself, IIRC.
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Re: What CPU booster combination do people want ?

Postby DarkLord » Sun Jan 03, 2016 9:19 am

I've got the TOS v3.06 files that I used when putting my Pak board together. They came straight
from Holger Zimmerman, and are for a US layout.

If you want me to upload them let me know.
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Re: What CPU booster combination do people want ?

Postby DarkLord » Sun Jan 03, 2016 9:31 am

Found it pretty easy, here it is:

306USPAK.ZIP


HTHs.
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Re: What CPU booster combination do people want ?

Postby TXG/MNX » Tue Jan 05, 2016 12:49 pm

I miss the TT in this poll ;-)

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Re: What CPU booster combination do people want ?

Postby exxos » Tue Jan 05, 2016 12:52 pm

TXG/MNX wrote:I miss the TT in this poll ;-)


Donate me a TT and will be happy to design a booster for it ;)
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Re: What CPU booster combination do people want ?

Postby rpineau » Tue Jan 05, 2016 5:15 pm

me too .. me too .. me too :D
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Re: What CPU booster combination do people want ?

Postby 1st1 » Wed Jan 06, 2016 8:04 pm

An adaption of the Vampire II for Amiga 600 to ST, STE, Mega St and Mega STE would be a great deal!

http://www.kipper2k.com/accel600.html

Keypoints:
- at least as fast as an 80 MHz 68060
- 128 MB RAM
- digital video output
- some future extensions are planned (SD-card, FPU, 16b bit Audio)
- costs just about 150 bucks
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Re: What CPU booster combination do people want ?

Postby rpineau » Wed Jan 06, 2016 8:21 pm

We've already talked to them... I've already commented on that on the Vampire thread.
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Re: What CPU booster combination do people want ?

Postby exxos » Wed Jan 06, 2016 9:01 pm

Those Amiga guys are not interesting in even talking about Atari versions, let along adapting one. I emailed a whole lot of people last year, waste of time. Its why myself and Rodolphe are working hard to develop our own solutions. Its probably mentioned in my 16mhz thread *somewhere* http://www.atari-forum.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=27088
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Re: What CPU booster combination do people want ?

Postby 1st1 » Wed Jan 06, 2016 9:17 pm

It's good to read that something similar to Vampire Ii is in progress for STs. Maybe you should include W.Förster into your work if he isn't already, I think he already worked out a lot for the Suska project what you could need.

Some Amiga guys seems to be very arogant, ignorant and unimproveable.
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Re: What CPU booster combination do people want ?

Postby exxos » Wed Jan 06, 2016 9:56 pm

1st1 wrote:It's good to read that something similar to Vampire Ii is in progress for STs. Maybe you should include W.Förster into your work if he isn't already, I think he already worked out a lot for the Suska project what you could need.

Some Amiga guys seems to be very arogant, ignorant and unimproveable.


Yeah Amiga guys seem a bit like that. I'm not even sure they "really" can do what they claim a lot of the time. I also suspect the Amiga is easier to get upgrades working to start with, so I doubt those guys could port their stuff over to the ST stuff without some serious headaches. We are all retro users, so you would think people would be more willing to help out :(

Wolfgang does reply to emails normally, but basically just says "look at the source on his site" and thats about as far as it goes. I have no idea about VHDL type code or programming anyway so its not really helpful. But this has all been talked about in other threads many times anyway.

We pretty much have every problem solved other than running higher than 32mhz speeds. The STE seems easier to get get working, the STFM just seems a total nightmare, but I will be putting my time back into boosters shortly. Rodolphe is still working on the 020 stuff. So even if we go quiet, we are exchanging emails and ideas every day about it all.

Its a shame that we can't get ahold of people like Jimmy Alan who did the T25 boosters etc, its a little annoying that we are having to re-invent the stuff , but at least this way we know how things work 100% as we built the stuff. Then we can improve on it in many ways. So while we are going "the long way around" it will be worth the wait :)
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Re: What CPU booster combination do people want ?

Postby arf » Wed Jan 06, 2016 10:03 pm

exxos wrote:Its a shame that we can't get ahold of people like Jimmy Alan who did the T25 boosters etc, its a little annoying that we are having to re-invent the stuff


Why don’t you base on the PAK68/3 (68030/32)? Wouldn’t that help against re-inventing the wheel?

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Re: What CPU booster combination do people want ?

Postby exxos » Thu Jan 07, 2016 12:01 am

arf wrote:
exxos wrote:Its a shame that we can't get ahold of people like Jimmy Alan who did the T25 boosters etc, its a little annoying that we are having to re-invent the stuff


Why don’t you base on the PAK68/3 (68030/32)? Wouldn’t that help against re-inventing the wheel?


I've got some PAK020 stuff, not sure even if the info is about for the 030 one, but if they are running 16mhz or 32mhz then they are running in sync with the system clock which isn't of help. AFAIK only the Txx series is running out of sync with the system clock. There might be others, but can't think of any off-hand. Its OK to get ideas from other projects, but its not good to build on something already out there as then then "core" is a unknown chunk of code, so fixing issues or updating something becomes a huge problem. Overall we know how things are supposed to work, its getting the ST's to behave with our ideas which is the problem ;)
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Re: What CPU booster combination do people want ?

Postby DarkLord » Thu Jan 07, 2016 10:27 am

There's some Pak related info out there - what exactly would be helpful to look at Chris?
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Re: What CPU booster combination do people want ?

Postby exxos » Thu Jan 07, 2016 10:45 am

DarkLord wrote:There's some Pak related info out there - what exactly would be helpful to look at Chris?


Any accelerator which uses a onboard crystal (but not to be confused with the crystal which is used for the FPU). Like the T25 uses a onboard 25mhz crystal so its "free" from the system clock (8mhz/16mhz/32mhz).

We know how it supposed to work, but thats based on proper 68000 timings, which Atari and their custom chips didn't exactly follow. So it makes hard work in getting it behave as we have to fight the custom chips aswell.
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Re: What CPU booster combination do people want ?

Postby Cyprian » Thu Jan 07, 2016 11:04 am

PAK68/3 can work asynchronously e.g. with 40MHz clock for CPU and as far as I remember PuPla board is recommended in order to improve PAK stability.
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Re: What CPU booster combination do people want ?

Postby DarkLord » Thu Jan 07, 2016 12:37 pm

Cyprian wrote:PAK68/3 can work asynchronously e.g. with 40MHz clock for CPU and as far as I remember PuPla board is recommended in order to improve PAK stability.


Yes. I'm running mine at 40 mhz with no PuPla board and it's very stable. I can't run it at 50mhz though. When I try it, I get glitches and some programs crash (for example the older Gembench). Alan has his running at 50mhz with the PupLa2 and he said it was rock solid as well. (the instructions recommend the PupLa for the higher speeds or if using more boards like in combination with a Panther setup).

When I first got my Pak board, the bottom pins were damaged. It took some judicious soldering to get it to a state where I could use it at all. I wonder if the abuse the board took from its previous owner has anything to do with its inability to run at the highest speed level. Of course, it could be many things. The Pak instructions go over that again and again about how many small details can impact what results you get out of it.

I'm not complaining mind you. A 40mhz 68030 CPU, 40mhz 68882 FPU, TOS v3.06 equipped Stacy makes me very happy. Just wish I had the room for the PuPla and Frak boards inside the STacy as well.

Changing speeds on the Pak boards is a matter of swapping out the CPU and the crystal (same speed). I've got 32, 40 and 50mhz 68030 CPU's/crystals as well as the same speeds for the FPU. I did a lot of swapping around, experimenting when I first installed it. :)
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Re: What CPU booster combination do people want ?

Postby ctirad » Fri Jan 08, 2016 9:17 am

exxos wrote:Wolfgang does reply to emails normally, but basically just says "look at the source on his site" and thats about as far as it goes. I have no idea about VHDL type code or programming anyway so its not really helpful.


I do. Where are the sources?

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Re: What CPU booster combination do people want ?

Postby Dal » Fri Jan 08, 2016 10:58 am

Go to the Download section of Wolfgang's site (http://experiment-s.de/en/download)

Then /Suska/<Latest Version>/ConfigWare

The VHDL source appears to be under the 'rtl' directory.
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Re: What CPU booster combination do people want ?

Postby exxos » Fri Jan 08, 2016 11:04 am

ctirad wrote:
exxos wrote:Wolfgang does reply to emails normally, but basically just says "look at the source on his site" and thats about as far as it goes. I have no idea about VHDL type code or programming anyway so its not really helpful.


I do. Where are the sources?


http://experiment-s.de/en/download

Though this drifts back to another thread I started http://www.atari-forum.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=28144
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Re: What CPU booster combination do people want ?

Postby mfro » Fri Jan 08, 2016 11:49 am

Although ingenious, Wolfgang's designs will probably be only of rather limited use for "booster" development.

The 68k is modeled exactly after an 8 MHz 68000 while the 68030 lacks an MMU and will be rather slow (size constraints?). Wolfgang apparently also has a much faster 68030 pipelined design, but this is not public (yet).

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Re: What CPU booster combination do people want ?

Postby exxos » Fri Jan 08, 2016 12:00 pm

mfro wrote:Although ingenious, Wolfgang's designs will probably be only of rather limited use for "booster" development.

The 68k is modeled exactly after an 8 MHz 68000 while the 68030 lacks an MMU and will be rather slow (size constraints?). Wolfgang apparently also has a much faster 68030 pipelined design, but this is not public (yet).


The only use it would be is if someone codes a 68000 core with built in blitter and FPU. That would be useful for a booster. Though as discussed in the blitter thread, it gets into issues with 3.3V levels, costs, and someones time. I'm not really sure its worth all the trouble overall and with a normal 68000 CPU we could push 50mhz or more. I think running a 68000 plus blitter and FPU at 50mhz would be asking to much for simple core to keep up with.
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Re: What CPU booster combination do people want ?

Postby mfro » Fri Jan 08, 2016 12:39 pm

exxos wrote:I think running a 68000 plus blitter and FPU at 50mhz would be asking to much for simple core to keep up with.


I wouldn't bet on that.

Even the MiST with a rather simplistic design manages to run its 68000 core (including blitter) at ~48 MHz in Stereoids mode. I bet this could be further accelerated a lot when the FPGA needs to concentrate on bus interface, blitter and CPU only (but would assume its not worth it unless you'd add some fast RAM).


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