Yamaha OPL on Atari STe?

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Re: Yamaha OPL on Atari STe?

Postby 1st1 » Sat Jan 09, 2016 10:47 pm

The important question for such a YM dropin replacement in ST is that it is still able to control the floppy and printer port, fully compatible to TOS?
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Re: Yamaha OPL on Atari STe?

Postby yogi2015 » Sun Jan 10, 2016 12:10 am

Hi soviet9922. Yes if this could be used with ST, would be excellent :) Would seem to be, but the manual is in Russian. Will try to find a PDF translation app.
There doesn't seem to be a board in production ATM, and not even sure if NedoPC would be willing to deal with/ship internationally. The design is documented and posted on the velesoft site, but not sure if it is open source; I would consider doing a Eagle layout if it is (only PDF for the schema, so would have to transcribe into CAD).
Not sure on how it's installed, but seems to plug into the AY socket. The additional register addresses are decoded by the CPLD, I think. So it would depend on the mem map of the ST and how close or different to the Speccy; I'm sure there will have to be changes to the .jed file.
Well, lots to think about,
Yogi

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Re: Yamaha OPL on Atari STe?

Postby dma » Sun Jan 10, 2016 9:01 am

Really interesting ideas here. :)

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Re: Yamaha OPL on Atari STe?

Postby yogi2015 » Sun Jan 10, 2016 5:19 pm

1st1 wrote:The important question for such a YM dropin replacement in ST is that it is still able to control the floppy and printer port, fully compatible to TOS?

Good point, I had over looked the Port usage. :?
Looking over the schema, Ports A and B of the first YM are routed back to the interconnect header, so would seem that the Ports should still work as the original Ports. Of course the differences between the YM2149 and the YM2209 need to be researched. But as I understand on the Speecy, the mapping is seamless between the original and the replaced, just the additional addresses for the second YM and FM registers need to be mapped on the host.
I am probably over simplifying but It does look promising,
Yogi

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Re: Yamaha OPL on Atari STe?

Postby soviet9922 » Mon Jan 11, 2016 3:11 pm

yogi2015 wrote:Hi soviet9922. Yes if this could be used with ST, would be excellent :) Would seem to be, but the manual is in Russian. Will try to find a PDF translation app.
There doesn't seem to be a board in production ATM, and not even sure if NedoPC would be willing to deal with/ship internationally. The design is documented and posted on the velesoft site, but not sure if it is open source; I would consider doing a Eagle layout if it is (only PDF for the schema, so would have to transcribe into CAD).
Not sure on how it's installed, but seems to plug into the AY socket. The additional register addresses are decoded by the CPLD, I think. So it would depend on the mem map of the ST and how close or different to the Speccy; I'm sure there will have to be changes to the .jed file.
Well, lots to think about,
Yogi

Indeed yogi the guy that build them "Vitaly" i have purchased some items from him, here you will find his email address is a top
http://nedopc.com/zxevo/zxevo_eng.php
WARNING! ZX Evolution sold and supplied by Vitaliy tetroid@inbox.ru.
I'm not sure that it will work on the st but my zx spectrum a (russian clone) even have an YM chip in place of the AY.

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Re: Yamaha OPL on Atari STe?

Postby yogi2015 » Mon Jan 11, 2016 10:58 pm

Thank you soviet9922, will try to contact Vitaliy.
I had a longer reply earlier today but had a power outage; and that was that, deleted before I could post :( Anyway...
Really convinced that a ST TurboSound FM could be viable. The YM 2203 seems to be an enhanced YM 2149, all the PSG and Port register addresses are common to both chips. At the software level, the 2203 should run any code written for a 2149. Of course, to use the FM enhancements, driver code will be needed. But that was expected.
The TurboSound FM hardware design is straight forward and seems to be system independent. From a programming point of view, the dual 2203 board is seen as a single YM 2149 with more internal registers; the FM section is added at 0x21~ 0xB2 and chip selection is at 0xFE and 0xFF (or rather, that is how the original TS works. The TSFM is just slightly different).
Depending on how the Host system handles the YM 2149 buss signals BDIR, BC1 and BC2, the board is 99 to 100% hardware compatible.
Yogi

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Re: Yamaha OPL on Atari STe?

Postby soviet9922 » Tue Jan 12, 2016 3:13 am

Sure if some clever guy wrote software for the st, some nice fm tunes can be play like arcade game music or sega mark III game music.
I have a pack of tsfm songs to play on the pentevo but theres not much music to play.

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Re: Yamaha OPL on Atari STe?

Postby yogi2015 » Thu Jan 14, 2016 12:36 am

So I've been going through the TSFM cpld design's .tdf file and comparing to the ST's Ym2149 hardware and it looks very good. I will implement the design and slight changes with VHDL in a Xilinx XC9532xl; already got the tool chain and breakout boards are pretty cheep @ Dangerous Prototypes/Seeed Studio.
Here is the TSFM.tdf with my notes and comments added, mainly for my own understanding, but will help understanding how to program for the interface. Later, if everything goes well :wink: , we can work on a formal doc and driver code examples.
turbofm_commented.tdf.txt

Here is basicly the same but with the minor changes I thought useful on the ST
turbofm_Atari_ST.tdf.txt

These are just text files, so I use Notepad++
Yogi
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Re: Yamaha OPL on Atari STe?

Postby yogi2015 » Tue Jan 19, 2016 10:25 pm

Bumping with a little update :)
Got a basic framework in VHDL for the interface, test todo. YM2203 and DACs on order.
There is a section of the original TFM CPLD that I'm still fuzzy on. The system CLK is routed into the CPLD, it runs through a shift reg entity and then is XORed with the current CLK state. It's commented as 'frequency multiplier logic' which seems like what it's doing. But the WHY is a mystery to me, could be for tuning with a better CLK f related to the Speccy's system clock. At this point I haven't included similar in the VHDL because it seems to be a ZX specific need.
Also there is a general question brewing in my mind: Would it be better to rethink/improve on the original TFM design? There is no reason to re-create the original design when there is no need to maintain 'backwards' compatibility and coupled with this comment from over at SNDH archive-
http://dhs.nu/bbs-tracking/index.php?request=779
Yerzmyey seems to have tried this already (?) and had a slight problem with digi playback. If I'm understanding this correct, there may be a slight timing difference with the YM 2149 and the PSG section of the YM 2203. At any rate, this lead me to think about other options.
The basic interface design could be used with a different chipset configuration. A simpler dual YM 2149 like the original TS, might appeal to more people? Or instead of two 2203s, the default chip being a YM 2149 and the second chip a OPN2 YM 2612/3438. I like this idea a lot- NO dacs, we could still use TFM Music Maker/other cross platform tools, not lose the performance of the original ST's PSG design. It's also very close to Sega's hardware model so playing VGMs may be an option. The only downside is the loss of the additional PSG channels that the TFM has.
To me, the changes to the CPLD is minor for either option, and both could be available if wanted. I'll work on testing these ideas and would like to hear any opinions on the direction.
Yogi

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Re: Yamaha OPL on Atari STe?

Postby yogi2015 » Sat Jan 30, 2016 5:29 pm

A little update
As outlined in the last post, I like the idea of a unique sound board alot and re-wrote the VHDL for a ym2149/ym 2612 design. The design synthesizes and fits into a XC9536xl, and finally last night, I DLed the .jed bitstream to a larger XC9572 for testing. Had some issues with my 'clone' Xilinx USB Platform cable, very dodgy getting Impact to see it. Could have been because of running it through a hub, or the pgrm cabling to my proto board, or strangeness with the XP box I'm using, or the angle of the moon :) Hoping this issue won't be an ongoing aggravation.

Anyway, next step is to setup a testing harness. Planning on using an Arduino Mega to sim the ST bus signals and my FPGA board, a Papilio One, running OLS Logic Analyzer. While looking into options for a logic analyzer I ended up at the Gadget Factory site and saw the great changes they have added to the Papilio IDE. One being the Analyzer, it's based on the Dangerous Prototype's Logic Sniffer project. One-Button-Downloading of the bitstream to the FPGA is fully integrated into the IDE as well as the PC GUI, too easy!
http://gadgetfactory.net/learn/2015/07/ ... -analyzer/

I've had the FPGA board for quite awhile but haven't done much with it, but the LA is really a 'killer' app for me :) So ordered some buffer 'Wings' and building some flying leads to set everything up.
Then on to ST based testing,
Yogi
PS as a side note, there is a similar project over at MidiBox.org. A member, Sauraen, is working on a STM32 based Quad YM2612/TI 76489 synth. ATM he has streaming VGM playback working on a single FM board-
http://midibox.org/forums/topic/19678-m ... ent=173409
So exciting!! I've got some of these boards on order.

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Re: Yamaha OPL on Atari STe?

Postby Stefan jL » Sat Jan 30, 2016 6:50 pm

If i understand correctly so are you doing an emulated ym2149 in an CPLD? Then you don't need to limit to the ym2149 and instead add the AY8930 :)
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Re: Yamaha OPL on Atari STe?

Postby yogi2015 » Sat Jan 30, 2016 9:58 pm

Stefan jL wrote:If i understand correctly so are you doing an emulated ym2149 in an CPLD? Then you don't need to limit to the ym2149 and instead add the AY8930 :)

No, I will move the YM2149 (or AY) from the main board, on to the mod board. The board will have a PSG chip and a FM chip. The CPLD allows the ST to access one or the other with just the two memory addresses, $FF8800 and $FF8802 as normally used for the YM2149. Extra Writes are needed to set the active chip somewhat like using a bank switching register; but this is the same overhead needed with the Speecy Turbosound.

The Speccy's TFM is doing similar but with two YM2203 chips. Because the ST uses the PSG's I/O ports for system signals, there could be problems with the YM2203. Most Yamaha FM chips require a delay between R/W accesses due to internal operations, anywhere from 10~50 clock cycles. This could be a problem on the YM2203, it shares the ports with the PSG core and the FM core. I really don't know if there would be an issue, but with the arrangement I outlined, any delays when accessing the FM channels won't affect the access to the YM PSG.

As far as the choice between the YM2149 and the AY 3-8930, seems like they are interchangeable, backwards compatible. This thread sounds like they are,
http://www.creamhq.de/ymrockerz/gb.php? ... 40&search=
So yea, there isn't a good reason NOT to upgrade to the '30 aside from acquiring the chip, will have to search Ebay, Ali, ect. Have to do some more research, but sounds like they are pin compatible except BC2 is ignored, But on the ST this pin is not used anyway. Anyone have a datasheet?
Yogi
Found the Datasheet :)

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Re: Yamaha OPL on Atari STe?

Postby Marakatti » Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:11 am

Any news on this?
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Re: Yamaha OPL on Atari STe?

Postby mzry » Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:10 am

Yeah this sounds awesome!
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Re: Yamaha OPL on Atari STe?

Postby soviet9922 » Wed Mar 07, 2018 4:20 pm

This thing could be made to work on the st parallel port ?
https://www.serdashop.com/OPL2LPT

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Re: Yamaha OPL on Atari STe?

Postby simonsunnyboy » Wed Mar 07, 2018 4:30 pm

soviet9922 wrote:This thing could be made to work on the st parallel port ?
https://www.serdashop.com/OPL2LPT


There as a disucssion here. Search for OPL2
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