USB HID interface

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Arne
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USB HID interface

Postby Arne » Thu Apr 16, 2015 9:04 am

Not wanting to misuse Joska's thread I want to start the Do and Don't stuff about this project.
I have (so far) designed schematic and layout for a USB HID interface. It's not the final layout as I just want to see if it's do-able e.g. JTAG will be removed completely on the final design. I've been working on the embedded-software fo a week now. Finally a configuration software like for the Eiffel project is needed.

Using this interface it should be possible to connect:
- USB keyboard
- USB mouse
- PS/2 keyboard
- PS/2 mouse
- Atari mouse
- Atari Joysticks (two)

to this board. It shall replace an external MegaST/STE or TT keyboard or a 520/1040 keyboard
completely.
CON1 and CON2 may be used to connect a daughterboard to measure up to three temperatures to control up to three standard 3-pin 12V PC fans.
So I want to discuss what may be omitted or what to include.

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Re: USB HID interface

Postby crashman » Thu Apr 16, 2015 12:37 pm

Shut up and take my money!!!

That's what I need to my Falconstein... I was thinking in using an Arduino and a USB shield, but this is waaay better.

I don't know if it would be much trouble, but I would prefer the connectors to be on a daughter-board also.
So you can put the connectors that you want, wherever you want. Let's say I want just USB's or PS2 alone, or I don't really want a joystick...

The main board does it's job, and I connect whatever I want.

But I will buy it for sure!

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Re: USB HID interface

Postby Arne » Thu Apr 16, 2015 12:58 pm

Thanks for your comment.
I had in mind to put USB and PS/2 on the mainboard and add additional 2x5 pin headers for Atari Joystick/Mouse (like RS232 on MegaSTE/TT on the VME bracket).
But I can provide 2x5 connectors for standard PC USB-Brackets: Image
But these are 2x5, too... someone might put joystick/mouse cable in that connector.
Fan-Daughterboard will stay separate as this is probably only useful for tower-cases.
Many small PCBs will make the project overly expensive!

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Re: USB HID interface

Postby catmando » Thu Apr 16, 2015 1:04 pm

Something similar was done a long time ago http://www.atari-wiki.com/index.php/AT_Key_by_System_Solutions
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Re: USB HID interface

Postby simonsunnyboy » Thu Apr 16, 2015 1:55 pm

Sounds like an interesting project! I personally see no need for fan control and temperature sensors but I believe both a full featured version for towered Ataris and a small compact one for machines in original casing would be possible.

It is great that you take care of Atari style joysticks ports directly from the beginning! :)
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Re: USB HID interface

Postby Dal » Thu Apr 16, 2015 7:42 pm

Very nice project. If you could also incorporate the option of an LCD display like the Eiffel, then it ticks all the boxes for me.
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Re: USB HID interface

Postby Arne » Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:29 am

Dal wrote:If you could also incorporate the option of an LCD display like the Eiffel, then it ticks all the boxes for me.

I don't see the need for a LCD. You have a CRT/TFT attached to your ST, don't you? 8)

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Re: USB HID interface

Postby Dal » Fri Apr 17, 2015 6:50 am

The LCD on the Eiffel can display current date/time, system temperature/processor speed (useful for ct60). Plus gimmicky things like showing the current track information in AniPlayer which is nice.

If I was going to drop this new device into my CT60 to replace the Eiffel, I couldn't help but feel a bit niggled by the fact the LCD mounted in the front panel no longer did anything.

For me, this is essentially an Eiffel with HID support. So why not start from the Eiffel's feature set - it's already so very close, right?
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Re: USB HID interface

Postby Arne » Fri Apr 17, 2015 7:01 am

Can you provide in-depth information about:
  • which LCD is used
  • description of the protocol Atari<->Eiffel to print strings/data onto the LCD

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Re: USB HID interface

Postby Dal » Fri Apr 17, 2015 7:31 am

Me? Nooooo, however the project is GPL and the page is here:
http://didierm.pagesperso-orange.fr/eiffel-e.htm

I'm sure any blanks can be filled in by Didier.
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Re: USB HID interface

Postby Arne » Fri Apr 17, 2015 7:41 am

Dal wrote:Me?

Yes YOU. If YOU want that feature YOU provide the information.
I'm not running around harassing other people for information I don't need.

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Re: USB HID interface

Postby Dal » Fri Apr 17, 2015 11:28 am

I'm sorry, but I had assumed you saying:
Arne wrote:So I want to discuss what may be omitted or what to include.


meant you were open to suggestions on functionality?
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Re: USB HID interface

Postby Shredder11 » Fri Apr 17, 2015 12:28 pm

Arne wrote:
Dal wrote:If you could also incorporate the option of an LCD display like the Eiffel, then it ticks all the boxes for me.

I don't see the need for a LCD. You have a CRT/TFT attached to your ST, don't you? 8)


It is a man's human right to have as many flashing lights, switches, knobs and displays as possible on their tech! :contract: :megaphone:

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Re: USB HID interface

Postby alanh » Fri Apr 17, 2015 12:48 pm

Some input from the Eiffels I've sold over the last 6 years...

About 10-15% used the temperature sensors.

About 50% used the joystick ports.

About 20-30% used the LCD.

I'm not sure if anyone bothered setting up the fan control because it doesn't work without the temperature sensors and the people who used it were low, but the temperature was displayed on the LCD.

With the PIC the LCD interface was only a couple pins, and leveraged a 74LS174 to connect directly to the LCD which has HD44780 style 2x16.

It's all on Didier's site, so you shouldn't need to contact him for anything. But you will need to look at the Eiffel sources to implement the same OPcodes if you are going for compatibility.
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Re: USB HID interface

Postby Arne » Sat Apr 18, 2015 7:04 am

Shredder11 wrote:It is a man's human right to have as many flashing lights, switches, knobs and displays as possible on their tech! :contract: :megaphone:

YMMD :lol:
Let's drop the matter and design a colour organ with hundreds of LEDs to attach to the printer port... :mrgreen:

alanh wrote:But you will need to look at the Eiffel sources to implement the same OPcodes if you are going for compatibility.

Hell no. PIC? And Assembler? Forget it. I'm not that masochistic.

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Re: USB HID interface

Postby joska » Sat Apr 18, 2015 11:00 am

Arne wrote:So I want to discuss what may be omitted or what to include.


Personally I have no need for fan control, temp sensors, LCD etc. My original idea was to make a small board that it plugged directly to the ST/Falcon's keyboard connector, and then you connect the keyboard to the board. The microcontroller will then merge the IKBD stream from the original keyboard with the IKBD stream from the connected USB devices. That way the original keyboard will be functional, so you can use Atari mice and joysticks connected to the original ports. In addition you can use USB keyboards, joysticks/joypads and mice connected to the microcontroller.

The purpose was to keep the original good looks and functionality of the ST/Falcon, but add the possibility to use USB HID devices without any sort of drivers on the ST/Falcon for full compatibility with all games.
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USB HID interface

Postby deeez » Sat Apr 18, 2015 1:29 pm

Is PS/2 really useful? I personally dont need an lcd.

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Re: USB HID interface

Postby alanh » Sun Apr 19, 2015 10:03 am

joska wrote:
Arne wrote:So I want to discuss what may be omitted or what to include.


Personally I have no need for fan control, temp sensors, LCD etc. My original idea was to make a small board that it plugged directly to the ST/Falcon's keyboard connector, and then you connect the keyboard to the board. The microcontroller will then merge the IKBD stream from the original keyboard with the IKBD stream from the connected USB devices. That way the original keyboard will be functional, so you can use Atari mice and joysticks connected to the original ports. In addition you can use USB keyboards, joysticks/joypads and mice connected to the microcontroller.

The purpose was to keep the original good looks and functionality of the ST/Falcon, but add the possibility to use USB HID devices without any sort of drivers on the ST/Falcon for full compatibility with all games.


Yep, this is how I'd do it too. Basically Jookie has done it with the CosmosEx, but obviously this smaller board would be just the USB ports for keyboard/mouse.
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Re: USB HID interface

Postby Fujiyama » Mon May 11, 2015 11:07 am

For me, just allowing standard USB keyboards and mice (at least two physical USB connectors) on the ST platform with no other features would be a most welcome hardware addition! :thumbs: :angel:
Adding ports for two Atari joysticks/Atari mouse would make it even better so as not to lose any of the existing ports already on the computer. You'd make me very happy if this were to be released some time in the not too distant future :D

I personally don't see the need for adding PS/2 support as those keyboards/mice are getting harder to come by and are getting a bit long in the tooth when it comes to design, but I can see others here having already bought PS/2 keyboards and mice they're happy with (for the Eiffel etc.) but also want access to USB.
I also personally don't have a need for an LCD display. The fan control might be useful for recasing, but then again is that really necessary when recased STs usually also have a new power supply with built-in fans and the ST never really did need any extra cooling, did it? And I suppose fan control could be done on its own, without involving the computer.

The daughterboard is a good idea for extra features (PS/2 connectors, fans, LCD etc.) if the main board could be used on its own for just USB and the Atari mouse/joystick ports. That way those interested in the extra features could pay for that while others would get a cheaper and simpler solution with just the features they need.

According to the Eagle (?) PCB layout in your first posting I gather that the "Mega ST input" connectors are for attaching to the Mega ST/STe RJ-11 connectors while "1040 input" is for connecting to an ST/STF/STFM/STe internal keyboard connector? If so I suggest using just a single RJ-11 connector (like the Eiffel, at least in Alan's version), then allow people to choose one of two cables (ST/STF/STFM/STe or Mega ST/STe) when ordering. That should save a little in component count and cost.


Just my two pennies worth of thought :wink:
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Re: USB HID interface

Postby crashman » Thu May 21, 2015 11:36 pm

Any movement here?
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Re: USB HID interface

Postby Fujiyama » Mon Jun 22, 2015 9:10 am

Arne, how is the project coming along?
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Re: USB HID interface

Postby Fujiyama » Mon Aug 31, 2015 11:47 am

<BUMP> :)

It seems like a rather big project, so if this is what's keeping it back, how about including just the essentials (USB mouse and keyboard, while keeping the Atari joystick options)?
It seems the schematics and board is pretty much done already, so perhaps the basic idea is already working? I would love to see this board being released, Arne. And I'm sure other Atari users are interested as well (both within and outside this forum, i.e. eBay, Atari-home.de etc.). :D
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Re: USB HID interface

Postby Fujiyama » Wed Mar 15, 2017 11:18 am

<bump> <bump>

any news in 2017?
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Re: USB HID interface

Postby Fujiyama » Fri May 19, 2017 5:46 pm

:?: If this project has been abandoned, would the author be willing to share it here so that others could continue and make the board a reality?
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Re: USB HID interface

Postby leech » Fri May 19, 2017 11:54 pm

I think Arne kind of disappeared, didn't he? I noticed a while ago his store closed.
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