Hard drive trashed?

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craigwojo
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Hard drive trashed?

Postby craigwojo » Wed Apr 07, 2004 1:40 am

Hi everyone,

This is sort of embarrassing to even dicuss of what happened, but here it goes –

Years and years of MIDI was put into this one hard drive I had with my Atari ST. The hard drive is a Quantum ProDrive ELS 120meg (huge for that time). Anyway, I took it out of the Atari system and hooked it up to the PC through SCSI and Gemulator Explorer. First of all the hard drive was partitioned in 6 parts. Sizes?, I really donÂ’t remember. But when I had it in Gemulator Explorer (OS was WIN98SE), I only saw the boot partition. Within Gemulator Explorer I made a image of the drive. I donÂ’t know if it copied all partitions or not. But the size shows that 120megs were used in the image. The partitions 2, 3, 4 & 5 had all of my MIDI files on it.

Here is what happenend that I think really screwed up the drive. Within GemExplor I clicked write instead of create image. WeÂ’ll I stopped it as soon as I could. (I think I over wrote the boot sector) I cannot read it or write to it in either GemExplor or with the Atari St system. I can see it in Desktop Manager as a drive, it does spin and just slows down to a stop. I donÂ’t hear it writing or reading the disk though. I even tried to format it so I could try to write the image back on it but no luck. Tried fdisk, disk repair program, and other ways.

Do you think the drive is bad? Can it be repaired?
Also, when you make an image in Gemulator Explorer, does it write all of the partitions?

Anyone with some answers? TIA to all.

Thank you,
Craig
:?

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Postby [ProToS] » Wed Apr 07, 2004 2:17 am

hi,

from the gemulator explorer doc:
Gemulator Explorer supports the creation of disk images files. You can create a disk image of any floppy disk
or SCSI drive by first clicking on that device in the left pane (for floppy disks, click on the Non-DOS floppy
on A: device), and then select the File menu and click on the Create Image From Physical Disk menu item.
A progress bar with then appear indicating the progress of the imaging operation.

Similarly a disk image can be copied back to a device by clicking on the device and selecting the
Write Image File To Physical Disk menu item.




normaly they have made a img of all hard drive
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craigwojo
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Postby craigwojo » Wed Apr 07, 2004 2:29 pm

Thank you for the reply.

I tried writing back the image to the hard drive and no luck. Gemulator Explorer does see the drive in the menu but it hangs up when trying to wrtie to it. I ordered another hard drive from ebay (Quantum ProDrive) only this one is 250megs not 120megs. I'll try to write the image to that. I sure hope it can carry all of the partitions over, that would be great.
Still, if the new drive doesn't work do you think there is any way to format the drive or fix it to see the boot sector to get it going?

Thank you,
Craig

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Postby [ProToS] » Wed Apr 07, 2004 5:24 pm

gemulator ( the st emulator ) could read this hard drive img ?
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Postby craigwojo » Thu Apr 08, 2004 1:23 am

I haven't tried Gemulator. I've tried STeem. Can Gemulator read img files? How can I read this img in this format. (img)

Thank you,
Craig

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Postby craigwojo » Thu Apr 08, 2004 4:22 am

I just tried Gemulator 2000 and it didn't read the .im image. I don't think Gemulator 2000 reads .im imagaes that were made from Gemulator Explorer. It seems to only read .dsk images that were made from Gemulator 2000. I renamed the extention to .dsk just to see if that would work but now luck. I also tried loading it on the A: drive but I got 4 bombs on startup.

Thank you,
Craig

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Postby craigwojo » Thu Apr 15, 2004 2:36 am

Hey everyone,
I bought a use scsi drive (250megs) off ebay ($9.00 pretty cheap) and formatted it with ICD format for the AtariST. I then took it to my PC with the scsi card adapter on it, hooked it up and put the image file I made with Gemulator Explorer. I brought it back to the AtariST and it show a number of bombs when I booted it up with ICD's boot disk.
Any suggestions would be great.

Thank you,
Craig

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Postby tobe » Thu Apr 15, 2004 8:14 am

I don't think you can write a 120 meg image on a 250 meg drive, since they have differents geometry.

I think you should try to configure a Linux kernel to work with Atari partitions, i don't know if it will support the filesystem, but you may find drivers from an atari distrib.

First, try to mount the image with loopback enabled, for testing purpose.

Then :
Put your scsi drive (the 120megs one) in the pc, don't try to mount it and type :

dd if=[your-hd-image] of=/dev/[your-scsi-drive-device]

This will restore the disk (i hope), i use it to restore some raid failures :D !

be carreful about the scsi target you give to the command, don't overwrite another drive :wink: !

Note : you can use an PC virtual box such as Bochs to install Linux without removing windows, it's free and opensource.
step 1: introduce bug, step 2: fix bug, step 3: goto step 1.

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Postby Sonix » Thu Apr 15, 2004 6:53 pm

I don't think you can write a 120 meg image on a 250 meg drive, since they have differents geometry.


That's not quite true. That is only relevant to IDE disks (and this is no longer true, because IDE disks only show a virtual geometry, to support the old style C/H/S addressing, but this is the PC world.). "Today" everybody uses LBA addressing, because no one makes a disk that has a fixed number of sectors over the whole range of tracks.

SCSI (and this also counts for ACSI) devices are always seen as sequence of blocks. All commands only get a logical block number to transfer. (see http://www.t10.org/scsi-3.htm - SCSI BLOCK COMMAND set)
It's in the responsiblity of the device internal controller to map this block number to any internal location on the physical disk. SCSI devices had an internal defect management already a long time ago. So the device may have redirected a block to a different internal location, if the old location has become bad. And this is transparent to the user (you won't notice that a block has become bad). If you get bad blocks the internal spare blocks are exhausted.

The Atari master boot record only contains the sector numbers where the partition starts and the size of the partition in sectors.

So you may dump any disk image to any device, as long as the image fits on it and it should work. If it doesn't somebody has made a mistake...

Sonix

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Re: Hard drive trashed?

Postby DoomMaster » Sat Apr 24, 2004 3:42 am

craigwojo wrote:Hi everyone,

This is sort of embarrassing to even dicuss of what happened, but here it goes –

Years and years of MIDI was put into this one hard drive I had with my Atari ST. The hard drive is a Quantum ProDrive ELS 120meg (huge for that time). Anyway, I took it out of the Atari system and hooked it up to the PC through SCSI and Gemulator Explorer. First of all the hard drive was partitioned in 6 parts. Sizes?, I really don’t remember. But when I had it in Gemulator Explorer (OS was WIN98SE), I only saw the boot partition. Within Gemulator Explorer I made a image of the drive. I don’t know if it copied all partitions or not. But the size shows that 120megs were used in the image. The partitions 2, 3, 4 & 5 had all of my MIDI files on it.

Here is what happenend that I think really screwed up the drive. Within GemExplor I clicked write instead of create image. We’ll I stopped it as soon as I could. (I think I over wrote the boot sector) I cannot read it or write to it in either GemExplor or with the Atari St system. I can see it in Desktop Manager as a drive, it does spin and just slows down to a stop. I don’t hear it writing or reading the disk though. I even tried to format it so I could try to write the image back on it but no luck. Tried fdisk, disk repair program, and other ways.

Do you think the drive is bad? Can it be repaired?
Also, when you make an image in Gemulator Explorer, does it write all of the partitions?

Anyone with some answers? TIA to all.

Thank you,
Craig
:?


It sounds like you may have deleted the boot sector of the hard drive. If this is the case you will have to do a Low Level Format. Since it is an older SCSI hard disk doing a low-level format will not damage the drive. If the Atari ST or PC will not do the low-level format then use an Amiga computer. The Amiga's HDTools WILL low-level format just about any SCSI hard disk. It is really nice to have both the Amiga and Atari ST computers. They work really well together. :)
Atari ST - The second best computer of the '80s

simbo

Postby simbo » Fri May 14, 2004 2:31 am

craigwojo wrote:Thank you for the reply.

I tried writing back the image to the hard drive and no luck. Gemulator Explorer does see the drive in the menu but it hangs up when trying to wrtie to it. I ordered another hard drive from ebay (Quantum ProDrive) only this one is 250megs not 120megs. I'll try to write the image to that. I sure hope it can carry all of the partitions over, that would be great.
Still, if the new drive doesn't work do you think there is any way to format the drive or fix it to see the boot sector to get it going?

Thank you,
Craig





so bombs

did you add termination to the disk

you must enable the termination on your new disk drive

rule with scsi first and last devices are terminated usualy 1k or 10k resistor bars
or a switch or jumper on the drive
download the drives specs and check you have
1} terminators enabled
2} id 0 enabled {ataris boot from id0 disk only }
3} a stable psu to the hdd
4} a new ribbon cable as i suspect your cable is gubbed by something you said the old drive spind down and stops i know this symptom
it is a bad cable and prob no terminators on the older drive
or switched off
5} a bad image
6} all the above and / or no boot block



so method

format the scsi disk on the atari
move it the the pc

use gem thing to partion it

as in scsi land a partiton can be added at any time
as long as the data is contiguious

so assuing this you never partition it on the atari
only format to 120 gb setting its geometry if needed to match the older disk

however i dont thing this step is needed either
only a format


to the full size

on the atari first

as the partitions will autocreate as needed
but as for geometry
check your older drive and see if you can get it to spin up

if you get problems getting the scsi disk to work on the atari again even with a boot disk
reformat it with the pc's hardware cards software bios
format routines
and again reformat the now cleaned disk in the atari

make sure the list is right


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