4MB Upgrade & 16MHz Booster progress

Troubles with your machine? Just want to speak about the latest improvements? This is the place!

Moderators: Mug UK, Zorro 2, Greenious, spiny, Moderator Team

rpineau
Atari Super Hero
Atari Super Hero
Posts: 514
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2011 6:39 am
Location: California / USA
Contact:

Re: 4MB Upgrade & 16MHz Booster progress

Postby rpineau » Wed Nov 26, 2014 5:16 am

GadgetUK164 wrote:I know I've mentioned it before but have you looked at the MACH 16 stuff on this site?

http://atari4ever.free.fr/

It basically contains all the GAL code for a 16Mhz mod plus the cache. It would be really nice to have a cache feature as well as fast TOS. If we could get a board designed vs the schematics it should be easy to build one of these ourselves.

It also shows performance there, and there's a math coprocessor socket oO


A cache is not a bad idea to cache ST RAM access. But for the rest of what we're putting on the card it would not add any speed as the goal is the have a zero wait state access which is the case with the TOS at 16MHz (using 100ns or less ERPOM) as well as the Fast RAM.
So even though it would not be useless it would had complexity to the current design, take more space on the card (which we're already running out) and would not always improve performances.
It also require TAG Ram (IDT7174S-35 or equivalent) and add 2x 8bit 8K SRAM (or one 16bit if we can find one) .. this takes more space than 2 of the SRAM chip we plan to put on the card (or the expansion).

Rodolphe
Falcon + AB040 + Eclipse PCI + ATI Rage VGA card + NE2000 Ethernec + HxC Floppy Emulator
MegaSTE 4MB + CosmosEx / 1040 STF for hardware dev
http://www.rti-zone.org/atari.php

User avatar
exxos
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 4933
Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2003 8:36 pm
Location: England
Contact:

Re: 4MB Upgrade & 16MHz Booster progress

Postby exxos » Wed Nov 26, 2014 9:38 pm

It would be faster to run programs in alt-ram, but of course not everything will run there. But not everything will work with cache anyway. Fast ram is a guaranteed boost in speed, cache isn't.

A thought I had a few days ago is to look into speeding up ST RAM. This can be done, but there is issues with shifter, DMA etc. I will work on this at some point in the future. Really we need to separate all clocks and re-generate them outside of MMU and GLUE. Then run MMU on switchable clock , but only allow MMU to switch double speed when talking to RAM or CPU. Its possible MMU could run double speed when reading from DMA circuit also. But I need some way to check what the control lines are form GLUE to MMU. There is a /RAM pin, so I assume GLUE set this when CPU needs to talk to ST RAM.

There is a separate line /DMA which I assume requests MMU attention from DMA circuit, so that would have to switch at 8mhz. Assuming /RAM is just for CPU <>RAM then we can run at 16mhz. There is also a /DEV line, I can only assume its for stuff like blitter which need access to ST RAM also. If so, then it could be possible for blitter to have 16mhz access to ST RAM. If anyone knows exactly what all these lines do then please let me know!

Overall, that would give a much greater increase in speed than cache ram. So that would be easier to work with. Its also good as I have ST RAM kits where the RAM is 70ns so that will speed up dev work in that respect also.

I have won a couple of STEs on evilbay so at some point I will look into the simple 16mhz mod. Though going how slow sales are, I am in 2 minds if it will be worthwhile doing or not.

One thing I plan to do next is investigate the HC variation of CPU. From what I can see, the general word is people have been getting up to 60mhz speeds from them. If that is true or not I do not know. But I have a couple of HC CPUs here so I will give them a try. It would be awesome if the 16mhz line can be swapped for 32mhz input from the master clock. I have half a feeling the clock might get inverted via the shifter, so I need to check on that. Though its possible 32mhz could be doable.

Please can people considering buying some things from my store, all these kits are funded by revenue generated from my webstore. I do not just pocket the cash like other people selling stuff, I re-invest the cash into dev-work. I just spent around £130 on some STE's and my pockets are not deep unfortunately.
4MB STFM 1.44 FD- VELOCE+ 020 STE - Falcon 030 CT60 - Atari 2600 - Atari 7800 - Gigafile - SD Floppy Emulator - PeST - various clutter

http://www.exxoshost.co.uk/atari/ All my hardware guides - mods - games - STOS
http://www.exxoshost.co.uk/atari/last/storenew/ - All my hardware mods for sale - Please help support by making a purchase.
http://ataristeven.exxoshost.co.uk/Steem.htm Latest Steem Emulator

alanh
Hardware Guru
Hardware Guru
Posts: 1383
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 9:01 pm
Location: North Wales, UK

Re: 4MB Upgrade & 16MHz Booster progress

Postby alanh » Thu Nov 27, 2014 9:13 am

exxos wrote:Please can people considering buying some things from my store, all these kits are funded by revenue generated from my webstore. I do not just pocket the cash like other people selling stuff, I re-invest the cash into dev-work. I just spent around £130 on some STE's and my pockets are not deep unfortunately.


I do it for the love of making a new board for my Atari's. If people buy it and want to come along for the ride, so be it. I fund my own development regardless of people buying my stuff, because it's "MY" hobby. Just want to be clear from my point of view here.
Falcon CT60, Falcon CT63 x2, TT x3, MegaST x2, MegaSTE x2, STFM x2, STE x2, STacy, STBook, (Dead) Hades 060, Milan 060, T40.

User avatar
exxos
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 4933
Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2003 8:36 pm
Location: England
Contact:

Re: 4MB Upgrade & 16MHz Booster progress

Postby exxos » Thu Nov 27, 2014 12:32 pm

Yeah I fund everything like it myself, its my hobby too, I've probably lost thousands over the years on this stuff though :roll: I find it really interesting stuff, though just trying not to go bankrupt in the process. Its like people keep asking about STE version of the booster, but even if I took pre-order for the stuff, its only one or 2 people if that who would actually put the money up front.

It was similar with PeST, I remember talking to Alison about it years ago. We got so fedup of people moaning about the cost of it, we said we would just do it for ourselves and stuff everyone else. People didn't want to pay £20+ for it, even though Alison spent £100's on PCB equipment, tech gear etc. She said if people don't want to pay £20 then they can go make one themselves. That was pretty much how it got left. Though I funded the actual first batch of PeST's myself, I think we made up about 25 in the initial batch. We wasn't going to sell them, but I had brought the chips and connects in packs of 25 anyway, we had the PCB's, so thought we would see if they sold. Though they sold out in pretty much in a week. Which was amazing as we had been pretty much insulted about it all from start to end and nobody, not 1 person, was willing to put cash up front for a pre-order. With the money made from the first batch, we made some more and over the years 100's of them sold.
4MB STFM 1.44 FD- VELOCE+ 020 STE - Falcon 030 CT60 - Atari 2600 - Atari 7800 - Gigafile - SD Floppy Emulator - PeST - various clutter

http://www.exxoshost.co.uk/atari/ All my hardware guides - mods - games - STOS
http://www.exxoshost.co.uk/atari/last/storenew/ - All my hardware mods for sale - Please help support by making a purchase.
http://ataristeven.exxoshost.co.uk/Steem.htm Latest Steem Emulator

User avatar
Cyprian
10 GOTO 10
10 GOTO 10
Posts: 1693
Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2002 11:23 am
Location: Warsaw, Poland

Re: 4MB Upgrade & 16MHz Booster progress

Postby Cyprian » Thu Nov 27, 2014 3:02 pm

nice idea Exxos. If I understand correctly, you would like to double MMU clock during memory slots assigned to the CPU, without touching slots assigned to the Shifter

I did a simple graph for 8/16/32MHz CPU and ST BUS Slots / Moded ST BUS Slots. Gray blocks mean CPU bus requests, green blocks - memory slots available for the CPU. For simplicity I assume that the CPU has always 4cycle memory access

There we can see that for 16MHz CPU, it's every second memory access occurs during the Shifter memory access (and can't be used by the CPU). It seems that in this case the CPU wouldn't benefit from this such a modification.
And in case of 32MHz CPU, it's half of memory access requests will be locked due to the Shifter memory access.
Image
Lynx II / Jaugar / TT030 / Mega STe / 800 XL / 1040 STe / Falcon030 / 65 XE / 520 STm / SM124 / SC1435
SDrive / PAK68/3 / Lynx Multi Card / LDW Super 2000 / XCA12 / SkunkBoard / CosmosEx / SatanDisk / UltraSatan / USB Floppy Drive Emulator / Eiffel / SIO2PC / Crazy Dots / PAM Net
Hatari / Steem SSE / Aranym / Saint
http://260ste.appspot.com/

User avatar
troed
Atari God
Atari God
Posts: 1444
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2012 6:20 pm
Location: Sweden

Re: 4MB Upgrade & 16MHz Booster progress

Postby troed » Thu Nov 27, 2014 7:04 pm

exxos wrote:I find it really interesting stuff, though just trying not to go bankrupt in the process.


Yeah I think it's important to keep in mind that the retro community is very small. Even though I find the discussions in this thread fascinating - I really do - I'm not going to be a customer. We all have different reasons for our retro nostalgia trips and mine's squarely rooted in the demo scene I was (am?) part of. Accelerators only break stuff for me ;)

Since I decided to make my 1040 STE a proper coding machine I have however bought a PeST from you, a Unicorn from alanh, RTC-chip, HxC floppy emu, DMA replacement chip and a picoPSU ... so, as long as you find the market I think we're all willing to pay. It's just that the market is very small ;)

/Troed

User avatar
DarkLord
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 4337
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2004 12:06 pm
Location: Prestonsburg, KY - USA
Contact:

Re: 4MB Upgrade & 16MHz Booster progress

Postby DarkLord » Thu Nov 27, 2014 7:41 pm

exxos wrote: Which was amazing as we had been pretty much insulted about it all from start to end and nobody, not 1 person, was willing to put cash up front for a pre-order. With the money made from the first batch, we made some more and over the years 100's of them sold.


I bought one, and I bought one of those adaptors for using a Playstation pad. I use it with my STacy. :)

IIRC, Alison also sent me a PeST for free, that I gave away as a prize at DarkForce (my BBS).
Welcome To DarkForce! http://www.darkforce.org "The Fuji Lives.!"
Atari SW/HW based BBS - Telnet:darkforce-bbs.dyndns.org 520

User avatar
DarkLord
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 4337
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2004 12:06 pm
Location: Prestonsburg, KY - USA
Contact:

Re: 4MB Upgrade & 16MHz Booster progress

Postby DarkLord » Thu Nov 27, 2014 7:45 pm

Sometimes I think part of the problem might be saturation (as well as it being a very
small market/community).

Let me give you an example. I've got a CT60 in my Falcon, an Adspeed in my Mega ST4,
a 40mhz PAK 68/3 in my STacy, and a couple of Fast Tech boards I'm not even using.

So...when a new accelerator is advertised...well, I think you see the point here. :)

I have to admit to being drawn to a board with faster TOS and alt/fast RAM though.

On top of that, I'm familiar with Chris's work so I know it'll be quality... :)
Welcome To DarkForce! http://www.darkforce.org "The Fuji Lives.!"
Atari SW/HW based BBS - Telnet:darkforce-bbs.dyndns.org 520

alanh
Hardware Guru
Hardware Guru
Posts: 1383
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 9:01 pm
Location: North Wales, UK

Re: 4MB Upgrade & 16MHz Booster progress

Postby alanh » Thu Nov 27, 2014 7:49 pm

Me too. I've got two PAK68/3 and a PAK68/2.
Falcon CT60, Falcon CT63 x2, TT x3, MegaST x2, MegaSTE x2, STFM x2, STE x2, STacy, STBook, (Dead) Hades 060, Milan 060, T40.

User avatar
exxos
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 4933
Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2003 8:36 pm
Location: England
Contact:

Re: 4MB Upgrade & 16MHz Booster progress

Postby exxos » Thu Nov 27, 2014 7:55 pm

I agree totally, the market is pretty much zero, its why so many projects by people get started then never finished. Really myself and Rodolphe are interested in the speed boosters, We find it really interesting and learning a lot as we go along. Of course my first booster was all logic chips, and that was finished some time ago. I wanted to speed up TOS also, but I was stuck as it needed a GAL to take care of address decoding, doing decoding with logic is possible, but a lot of work. So the project got put on hold until I could either start learning GAL code (really would never have that much free time to do that) or someone else helped. So Rodolphe came along offered to help, and a few months later we have a working booster with fast-TOS. Since then we have added blitter speeds, now we are working on higher speeds and fast-ram.

My initial goal was to add a speed boost to the ST without breaking anything. This has been completed. It makes the ST more responsive and gives games a speed boost to make them run smoother. Though now that is done, I want to try to speed it up even more by breaking past 16mhz and going to 32mhz as my target speed.

Some people may think this thread is long winded, but what annoys me mostly, is when stuff is developed and the creator vanishes, all the information is lost. Then someone years later has to re-invent the same stuff again. I try to keep the threads updated as much as possible with what works and what does not, as it has taken huge amounts of time, and if I did not document it, it would pretty much all go to waste what we have learned along the way.

Defiantly little or no money to be made, I am sure others will agree. Though I wish people would shop in my store for items like simms etc rather than buying them off ebay. Sure they could get used ones a little cheaper, but that does not support the community, it just puts a few $$ in the pockets of ebay people who are just in it for the money rather than putting the funds to use into something constructive.

I do have some machines breaking for spares, so will probably put some stuff up in my store, more general items, like IC's, mice etc, DMA's and mice sell for silly money these days so may give that a go in the new year. Anyway , getting a bit off topic here..
4MB STFM 1.44 FD- VELOCE+ 020 STE - Falcon 030 CT60 - Atari 2600 - Atari 7800 - Gigafile - SD Floppy Emulator - PeST - various clutter

http://www.exxoshost.co.uk/atari/ All my hardware guides - mods - games - STOS
http://www.exxoshost.co.uk/atari/last/storenew/ - All my hardware mods for sale - Please help support by making a purchase.
http://ataristeven.exxoshost.co.uk/Steem.htm Latest Steem Emulator

User avatar
exxos
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 4933
Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2003 8:36 pm
Location: England
Contact:

Re: 4MB Upgrade & 16MHz Booster progress

Postby exxos » Thu Nov 27, 2014 8:09 pm

DarkLord wrote:Sometimes I think part of the problem might be saturation (as well as it being a very
small market/community).

Let me give you an example. I've got a CT60 in my Falcon, an Adspeed in my Mega ST4,
a 40mhz PAK 68/3 in my STacy, and a couple of Fast Tech boards I'm not even using.

So...when a new accelerator is advertised...well, I think you see the point here. :)

I have to admit to being drawn to a board with faster TOS and alt/fast RAM though.

On top of that, I'm familiar with Chris's work so I know it'll be quality... :)


I think I may have sent a couple of the last produced PeST's a while back also. Think I was sick of them lay around :lol: PeST "look alikes" flooded the market towards the end of PeST sales. So that pretty much killed off the few remaining sales.

I do see your point though, its pointless for one producing PeST's when people can get the stuff cheaper. Though (thanks for saying Ron!) I do test the stuff I produce, always have. Almost every bit of tech stuff I buy (anything from toasters to microwaves you name it) is feking trash half the time. Stuff isn't tested properly and it annoys the hell out of me. So I want to produce stuff which actually works and works good. I remember Alison almost stopped talking to me during PeST development. I think it was when she had finished a BETA version of the code, and she was all happy about it, I said, the mouse doesn't move per single pixels, it actually jumped 4 pixels as a minimum. She hadn't even noticed it and she was happy to leave it that way. So I started patching the code myself and fixed it, Later after she had calmed down a bit, she agreed it needed fixing.. Then I found other bugs :lol:

In anycase, I decided to pull the plug on PeST and work on something which wasn't in mass production like CPU boosters. It is something I always wanted to do anyway. Rodolphe has been giving great input these past few months. He is doing great work with the PCB design, which is saving me a lot of work, its while he is doing that I have been able to fiddle with the blitter stuff. Today I have been working on the start of the 32mhz mod. Rodolphe mostly designs something, then I say we should change something.. So he does.. Then I say we should change it again.. So he does.. then I say we should change that, and she does.. and so far he is still talking to me.. (just, I think ) :lol: 8)
4MB STFM 1.44 FD- VELOCE+ 020 STE - Falcon 030 CT60 - Atari 2600 - Atari 7800 - Gigafile - SD Floppy Emulator - PeST - various clutter

http://www.exxoshost.co.uk/atari/ All my hardware guides - mods - games - STOS
http://www.exxoshost.co.uk/atari/last/storenew/ - All my hardware mods for sale - Please help support by making a purchase.
http://ataristeven.exxoshost.co.uk/Steem.htm Latest Steem Emulator

User avatar
exxos
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 4933
Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2003 8:36 pm
Location: England
Contact:

Re: 4MB Upgrade & 16MHz Booster progress

Postby exxos » Thu Nov 27, 2014 8:11 pm

alanh wrote:Me too. I've got two PAK68/3 and a PAK68/2.


Id be interested in seeing Gembench4 results on the 68/2 I never got this one I got here working :(
4MB STFM 1.44 FD- VELOCE+ 020 STE - Falcon 030 CT60 - Atari 2600 - Atari 7800 - Gigafile - SD Floppy Emulator - PeST - various clutter

http://www.exxoshost.co.uk/atari/ All my hardware guides - mods - games - STOS
http://www.exxoshost.co.uk/atari/last/storenew/ - All my hardware mods for sale - Please help support by making a purchase.
http://ataristeven.exxoshost.co.uk/Steem.htm Latest Steem Emulator

User avatar
exxos
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 4933
Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2003 8:36 pm
Location: England
Contact:

Re: 4MB Upgrade & 16MHz Booster progress

Postby exxos » Thu Nov 27, 2014 8:17 pm

Cyprian wrote:nice idea Exxos. If I understand correctly, you would like to double MMU clock during memory slots assigned to the CPU, without touching slots assigned to the Shifter

I did a simple graph for 8/16/32MHz CPU and ST BUS Slots / Moded ST BUS Slots. Gray blocks mean CPU bus requests, green blocks - memory slots available for the CPU. For simplicity I assume that the CPU has always 4cycle memory access

There we can see that for 16MHz CPU, it's every second memory access occurs during the Shifter memory access (and can't be used by the CPU). It seems that in this case the CPU wouldn't benefit from this such a modification.
And in case of 32MHz CPU, it's half of memory access requests will be locked due to the Shifter memory access.


Yeah, that's one of the problems really. The CPU can still do internal instructions while MMU is talking to RAM/Shifter (I presume anyway). But like you say, the CPU is having to wait for shifter to finish before it can access RAM. So it will be waiting around a lot of the time. The Shifter may be able to take a higher clock rate for the dating being clocked in, so that would free up some time. But it all needs investigating. There will always be some bottleneck somewhere in the system, I am just trying to think up ways of reducing them as much as possible.
4MB STFM 1.44 FD- VELOCE+ 020 STE - Falcon 030 CT60 - Atari 2600 - Atari 7800 - Gigafile - SD Floppy Emulator - PeST - various clutter

http://www.exxoshost.co.uk/atari/ All my hardware guides - mods - games - STOS
http://www.exxoshost.co.uk/atari/last/storenew/ - All my hardware mods for sale - Please help support by making a purchase.
http://ataristeven.exxoshost.co.uk/Steem.htm Latest Steem Emulator

User avatar
exxos
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 4933
Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2003 8:36 pm
Location: England
Contact:

Re: 4MB Upgrade & 16MHz Booster progress

Postby exxos » Thu Nov 27, 2014 11:29 pm

A little more progress today :) Rodolphe posted the current PCB layout to me.
PM.png
We have a PLCC CPU, PLCC ROM, And blitter. Bottom right is the new ATF chip which has lots of IOs which is really cool :) Top of the board we have a expansion header for other stuff.

I have been investigating the 68HC000 tonight, I know I couldn't get this working at all on one ST I tried a few weeks back. Though the ST I am trying now is the type with SMT GLUE/MMU/RAM and it worked pretty stable on there. Though I tried pull ups on all the CPU pins and it didn't work so good. I got 11 bombs just after the floopy light had come on and gone off. I removed resistors from the control pins of the CPU and kept stripping them back until there was only pull ups on the address and databus. I got down to 3 bombs then 2 bombs, then got to the desktop for about 4 seconds until it reset.

Just for the hell of it, I swapped the common resistor bus (pull ups) to 0v and the machine booted fine and I had it running GB4 for half hour and was perfect stable. I suspect this is my old noise friend on the bus gain. On my scope I can see some 1V noise spikes on the LO period of the address and databus. Though when I place a 4K7 pull down , they lower to about 0.5V. I also tried with no common connection and surprisingly that worked also. so the problem is only very slight. Probably 10K or 22K pull downs will work fine but not yet had chance to try it.

Tomorrow I hope to add my simple 16mhz mod to the HC CPU and verify that is working. Then once stable, I will switch over to the 32mhz clock and watch it all burrnnnnnn :twisted:
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
4MB STFM 1.44 FD- VELOCE+ 020 STE - Falcon 030 CT60 - Atari 2600 - Atari 7800 - Gigafile - SD Floppy Emulator - PeST - various clutter

http://www.exxoshost.co.uk/atari/ All my hardware guides - mods - games - STOS
http://www.exxoshost.co.uk/atari/last/storenew/ - All my hardware mods for sale - Please help support by making a purchase.
http://ataristeven.exxoshost.co.uk/Steem.htm Latest Steem Emulator

User avatar
exxos
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 4933
Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2003 8:36 pm
Location: England
Contact:

Re: 4MB Upgrade & 16MHz Booster progress

Postby exxos » Thu Nov 27, 2014 11:42 pm

I forgot to mention I have been practising my SMT soldering skills some more. The AFT is a TQFP package so a bugger to solder in other words. But this was my second attempt. The PCB is cheap so not the best, but good enough to practice with.
tqfn.jpg
For some reason I find packages without legs easier to solder these days :lol:
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
4MB STFM 1.44 FD- VELOCE+ 020 STE - Falcon 030 CT60 - Atari 2600 - Atari 7800 - Gigafile - SD Floppy Emulator - PeST - various clutter

http://www.exxoshost.co.uk/atari/ All my hardware guides - mods - games - STOS
http://www.exxoshost.co.uk/atari/last/storenew/ - All my hardware mods for sale - Please help support by making a purchase.
http://ataristeven.exxoshost.co.uk/Steem.htm Latest Steem Emulator

User avatar
MasterOfGizmo
Atari God
Atari God
Posts: 1265
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2013 12:15 pm
Contact:

Re: AW: 4MB Upgrade & 16MHz Booster progress

Postby MasterOfGizmo » Fri Nov 28, 2014 7:00 am

[url][/url]
MIST board, FPGA based Atari STE and more: https://github.com/mist-devel/mist-board/wiki

joska
Hardware Guru
Hardware Guru
Posts: 4381
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2007 2:55 pm
Location: Florø, Norway
Contact:

Re: 4MB Upgrade & 16MHz Booster progress

Postby joska » Fri Nov 28, 2014 8:23 am

exxos wrote:A little more progress today :) Rodolphe posted the current PCB layout to me.
...
exxos wrote: We have a PLCC CPU, PLCC ROM, And blitter. Bottom right is the new ATF chip which has lots of IOs which is really cool :) Top of the board we have a expansion header for other stuff.


Looks good, and it looks like it should fit the Mega without problems :)

The fast-RAM is essential to me, will this be implemented as an expansion for this card or have you dropped this idea? Any idea on what this will cost when finished?
Jo Even

VanillaMiNT - Firebee - Falcon060 - Milan060 - Falcon040 - MIST - Mega ST - STM - STE - Amiga 600 - Sharp MZ700 - MSX - Amstrad CPC - C64

User avatar
exxos
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 4933
Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2003 8:36 pm
Location: England
Contact:

Re: 4MB Upgrade & 16MHz Booster progress

Postby exxos » Fri Nov 28, 2014 8:35 am

We still want to add fast ram, just it was impossible to route it on the card with everything else. It will be a addon card developed some time in the future. As for cost I cannot say at this time. We are trying to keep the cost low as possible, its probably the PCB will be the most expensive part on there.
4MB STFM 1.44 FD- VELOCE+ 020 STE - Falcon 030 CT60 - Atari 2600 - Atari 7800 - Gigafile - SD Floppy Emulator - PeST - various clutter

http://www.exxoshost.co.uk/atari/ All my hardware guides - mods - games - STOS
http://www.exxoshost.co.uk/atari/last/storenew/ - All my hardware mods for sale - Please help support by making a purchase.
http://ataristeven.exxoshost.co.uk/Steem.htm Latest Steem Emulator

User avatar
Frank B
Atari God
Atari God
Posts: 1010
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 1:28 am
Location: Boston

Re: 4MB Upgrade & 16MHz Booster progress

Postby Frank B » Fri Nov 28, 2014 9:58 am

exxos wrote:We still want to add fast ram, just it was impossible to route it on the card with everything else. It will be a addon card developed some time in the future. As for cost I cannot say at this time. We are trying to keep the cost low as possible, its probably the PCB will be the most expensive part on there.


Can the blitter access the alt RAM? It should be able to access anything the 68k can.
Video and audio DMA won't work above 4 mb but I'm hoping the blitter can :)

User avatar
exxos
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 4933
Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2003 8:36 pm
Location: England
Contact:

Re: 4MB Upgrade & 16MHz Booster progress

Postby exxos » Fri Nov 28, 2014 11:21 am

Frank B wrote:
exxos wrote:We still want to add fast ram, just it was impossible to route it on the card with everything else. It will be a addon card developed some time in the future. As for cost I cannot say at this time. We are trying to keep the cost low as possible, its probably the PCB will be the most expensive part on there.


Can the blitter access the alt RAM? It should be able to access anything the 68k can.
Video and audio DMA won't work above 4 mb but I'm hoping the blitter can :)



I would imagine the blitter could access alt-ram yes. Though it would need software to actually make use of the alt-ram. To my knowledge there isn't any.
4MB STFM 1.44 FD- VELOCE+ 020 STE - Falcon 030 CT60 - Atari 2600 - Atari 7800 - Gigafile - SD Floppy Emulator - PeST - various clutter

http://www.exxoshost.co.uk/atari/ All my hardware guides - mods - games - STOS
http://www.exxoshost.co.uk/atari/last/storenew/ - All my hardware mods for sale - Please help support by making a purchase.
http://ataristeven.exxoshost.co.uk/Steem.htm Latest Steem Emulator

joska
Hardware Guru
Hardware Guru
Posts: 4381
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2007 2:55 pm
Location: Florø, Norway
Contact:

Re: 4MB Upgrade & 16MHz Booster progress

Postby joska » Fri Nov 28, 2014 11:27 am

exxos wrote:I would imagine the blitter could access alt-ram yes. Though it would need software to actually make use of the alt-ram. To my knowledge there isn't any.


TOS VDI can blit to/from fast-RAM. But I have no idea if it use the blitter in this case.
Jo Even

VanillaMiNT - Firebee - Falcon060 - Milan060 - Falcon040 - MIST - Mega ST - STM - STE - Amiga 600 - Sharp MZ700 - MSX - Amstrad CPC - C64

User avatar
Frank B
Atari God
Atari God
Posts: 1010
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 1:28 am
Location: Boston

Re: 4MB Upgrade & 16MHz Booster progress

Postby Frank B » Fri Nov 28, 2014 11:38 am

joska wrote:
exxos wrote:I would imagine the blitter could access alt-ram yes. Though it would need software to actually make use of the alt-ram. To my knowledge there isn't any.


TOS VDI can blit to/from fast-RAM. But I have no idea if it use the blitter in this case.


wonder if you can use prg flags to force loading into alt ram

User avatar
exxos
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 4933
Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2003 8:36 pm
Location: England
Contact:

Re: 4MB Upgrade & 16MHz Booster progress

Postby exxos » Fri Nov 28, 2014 11:50 am

I'm totally sure how the system works with loading stuff in alt-ram. Of course the video still works, but is still held in ST RAM. I've not had much to do with programming the blitter myself. I know you can set the address and data, so the blitter can access alt-ram. But it still needs to push data into ST RAM because that is where video ram is. So not really sure that running the blitter in alt-ram would do anything as it still has to load the data into ST RAM for the video.

I think you just have to look at it like alt-ram is its own mini computer and cant access things on the ST bus unless the CPU is talking to ST RAM. Has anyone tried running a game in alt-ram to see what happens ? Someone else might know more about this kinda thing than me.
4MB STFM 1.44 FD- VELOCE+ 020 STE - Falcon 030 CT60 - Atari 2600 - Atari 7800 - Gigafile - SD Floppy Emulator - PeST - various clutter

http://www.exxoshost.co.uk/atari/ All my hardware guides - mods - games - STOS
http://www.exxoshost.co.uk/atari/last/storenew/ - All my hardware mods for sale - Please help support by making a purchase.
http://ataristeven.exxoshost.co.uk/Steem.htm Latest Steem Emulator

User avatar
exxos
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 4933
Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2003 8:36 pm
Location: England
Contact:

Re: 4MB Upgrade & 16MHz Booster progress

Postby exxos » Fri Nov 28, 2014 12:34 pm

http://exxos.www.idnet.com/IMPULSE/atari/last/16mhz/DSCN0958.MOV

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I get the impression that isn't the GEM desktop 8)
4MB STFM 1.44 FD- VELOCE+ 020 STE - Falcon 030 CT60 - Atari 2600 - Atari 7800 - Gigafile - SD Floppy Emulator - PeST - various clutter

http://www.exxoshost.co.uk/atari/ All my hardware guides - mods - games - STOS
http://www.exxoshost.co.uk/atari/last/storenew/ - All my hardware mods for sale - Please help support by making a purchase.
http://ataristeven.exxoshost.co.uk/Steem.htm Latest Steem Emulator

joska
Hardware Guru
Hardware Guru
Posts: 4381
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2007 2:55 pm
Location: Florø, Norway
Contact:

Re: 4MB Upgrade & 16MHz Booster progress

Postby joska » Fri Nov 28, 2014 2:26 pm

exxos wrote:I'm totally sure how the system works with loading stuff in alt-ram. Of course the video still works, but is still held in ST RAM. I've not had much to do with programming the blitter myself. I know you can set the address and data, so the blitter can access alt-ram. But it still needs to push data into ST RAM because that is where video ram is. So not really sure that running the blitter in alt-ram would do anything as it still has to load the data into ST RAM for the video.


It depends on how you've designed your board I guess. The blitter has the same address range as the CPU. So if you connected it to the same address- and data bus as the CPU it should be able to blit between ST-RAM and alt-RAM. But maybe TOS VDI itself is the limit.

This is different from e.g. a Falcon with a CT, Afterburner, Mighty Eagle or similar accelerators. In that case the fast-RAM is outside the blitter's address range.

Anyway, not very important I think. It would be of very little use.
Jo Even

VanillaMiNT - Firebee - Falcon060 - Milan060 - Falcon040 - MIST - Mega ST - STM - STE - Amiga 600 - Sharp MZ700 - MSX - Amstrad CPC - C64


Social Media

     

Return to “Hardware”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests