1040 STE PROBLEM.

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1040 STE PROBLEM.

Postby shaunboots » Mon Jun 24, 2013 6:07 pm

hello everyone at Atari forum. its cool to see there are people still enjoying atari computers. my first family computer was a 520stfm with a ram upgrade and i loved it. I have a an ste that i got from the music department of a school that i cant get to work properly and im kinda stuck with what to try next. boots up nice and quick into gem with a disk in, or with no drive connected but it shows anything on a disk as garbage corrupted files. first i thought it was the drive but i tested it in an stfm and its working really well. and the working drive from the stfm is in the ste it does the same thing.. so its not the drive. the only thing i can find that resembles this issue was in a post from somebody about there mods. and it mentions they had tos 2.06 roms from ebay that corrupted file names... not too sure what tos it has. a website said i could check the last year shown in the copyright info but i have 89 which it says is 1.04 . should it be 1.06? could that be the problem? thanks for ANY advice anyone can give. i really want to get this machine running and see what i was missing as a regular stfm user

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Re: 1040 STE PROBLEM.

Postby shaunboots » Mon Jun 24, 2013 8:59 pm

MORE INFO: so I have identified the dma chip and its the "faulty" kind... does this have any impact on the floppy drive? there has been a modification to this board... don't have a good enough camera to take a picture but i will write a description of what wire on what pin of what chip goes where. doing this now... i can take a picture on a mates phone tomorrow if that will help, but again any suggestions would be great as the first time i looked inside an st or ste was a few days ago. i have amateur experience in pc building and arcade (jamma) repair so i should be able to handle this... right?

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Re: 1040 STE PROBLEM.

Postby Silly_Pony » Mon Jun 24, 2013 10:41 pm

DMA chip won't bug the floppy drive, I don't think...

If there's a mod it might be a HD floppy one, and it might be the culprit, maybe.
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Re: 1040 STE PROBLEM.

Postby shaunboots » Mon Jun 24, 2013 10:56 pm

more more info: there was a topic about stuff for trade in sweden and one item sounds just like my ste right down to the motherboard number... 2. Atari 520 STE - Floppy is not really workin (special soldering on the YM chip)
Tos 2.06 - Gem 0.20 - Aes 3.20 - SWE Tos - 2Mb Ram
special: PCB Error Correction, Serial Port Speed Multiplyer (for ex. 3 midi output box)
MB: C300779-001 Rev 5.1 (Atari Corporation 1989)!!!
could it be the same mod and drive problem? the wires on the chips on mine go from pin 19 (lifted from pcb) on the mc8901p to pin 13 on a chip marked goldstar gd74ls164 8947 ROK then from pin 2 to pin 9 on that same chip and then from pin 8 on that chip to pin 22 on the yamaha ym2149f. the goldstar chip seems to be piggybacked onto another chip.. does any of that mean anything to anyone?
still think it may be to do with the dma.. it is c025913-38 ph23-030 9l4 11 that is a faulty one right? and also what does that guy mean by Floppy is not really working( special soldering on the ym chip) ? sorry for all the questions.. i really am trying to do my own research and figure this out but im not getting to far on my own. please help!

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Re: 1040 STE PROBLEM.

Postby Zogging Hell » Mon Jun 24, 2013 11:34 pm

Nah DMA is only hard disks... unless it has completely buggered...

If it's a mod, can you solder shaunboots? Have you got another disk drive you can try (bearing in mind the ST likes it floppy drives as ID 0 rather than the PCs id 1)?
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Re: 1040 STE PROBLEM.

Postby nativ » Tue Jun 25, 2013 12:06 am

boots up nice and quick into gem with a disk in, or with no drive connected but it shows anything on a disk as garbage corrupted files.

Is this a game disk? or one you made up?

Some of the game disks have protection on that can produce a 'feature' like this.

if you can take a photo of your setup, it would help for us here to understand further your setup issues
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Re: 1040 STE PROBLEM.

Postby shaunboots » Tue Jun 25, 2013 12:58 am

thanks heaps for the replys everybody. cant take a photo just yet. need to wait for a friend with a camera to drop round. just to clarify i know the drive works as i tested it in my atari 520stfm.
i also tried the working drive from my 520stfm in the ste with the same messed up file name and info results. i have tried known working disks of original games . some that autoboot and others that dont. as well as coverdisks and homemade game disks. allways the same. it will say something like /.).)*0). bytes in 3 items. instead of correct sizes. the amount and type of files and folders is wrong and the names are made up of characters i dont ever remember seeing and definatly dont have on my keyboard. i know the disks are good as i tested them on my stfm and they work well. the main reason i suspect the dma is some issues with hdds seem to resemble whats happening here.

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Re: 1040 STE PROBLEM.

Postby tjlazer » Tue Jun 25, 2013 2:55 am

open it up and reseat all chips.
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Re: 1040 STE PROBLEM.

Postby Silly_Pony » Tue Jun 25, 2013 7:04 pm

It's probably a buggered up hd floppy mod.
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Re: 1040 STE PROBLEM.

Postby shaunboots » Tue Jun 25, 2013 11:44 pm

thanks zogging hell. my soldering skills are somewhat limited. but i can have a go if i need to. need some practice anyhow. i do have a couple of pc drives but i cant find any way on them to set device number. if i have confirmed the drive works in another Atari it should be safe to assume its not the problem though right?
thanks silly pony. i will have a look at some tutorials for hd floppy mods and see if it matches up at all. although i suspect that as this ste belonged to a music department of a school it would have been used mostly for cubase and it may be a midi mod... also the drive in it is a epson smd-380. i think that's the standard drive for this Atari. but it may have been put back in after i suppose.
thanks tjlazer. i have reseated the roms . and the ram. tried with only half ram in. (slots 1 and 3) still the same. i didn't do the Atari twist or drop though haha. (and i dont plan to). what chips do you think it could be?
sorry about no photos yet. my camera is about as old as the Atari is but im working on it.
appreciate all the suggestions. you guys rock.

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Re: 1040 STE PROBLEM.

Postby Hippy Dave » Wed Jun 26, 2013 3:24 am

shaunboots wrote:more more info: there was a topic about stuff for trade in sweden and one item sounds just like my ste right down to the motherboard number... 2. Atari 520 STE - Floppy is not really workin (special soldering on the YM chip)
Tos 2.06 - Gem 0.20 - Aes 3.20 - SWE Tos - 2Mb Ram
special: PCB Error Correction, Serial Port Speed Multiplyer (for ex. 3 midi output box)
MB: C300779-001 Rev 5.1 (Atari Corporation 1989)!!!
could it be the same mod and drive problem? the wires on the chips on mine go from pin 19 (lifted from pcb) on the mc8901p to pin 13 on a chip marked goldstar gd74ls164 8947 ROK then from pin 2 to pin 9 on that same chip and then from pin 8 on that chip to pin 22 on the yamaha ym2149f. the goldstar chip seems to be piggybacked onto another chip.. does any of that mean anything to anyone?
still think it may be to do with the dma.. it is c025913-38 ph23-030 9l4 11 that is a faulty one right? and also what does that guy mean by Floppy is not really working( special soldering on the ym chip) ? sorry for all the questions.. i really am trying to do my own research and figure this out but im not getting to far on my own. please help!

Correction:
the wires on the chips on mine go from pin 19 (lifted from pcb) on the mc8901p to pin 13 on a chip marked 74ls164 then from pin 1 to pin 2 to pin 9 on that same chip and then from pin 8 on that chip to pin 22 on the yamaha ym2149f.

Are the piggy backed chips connected together (pin 2 to pin 2) , (pin 7 to pin 7) and (pin 14 to pin 14) ?
Note that I'm armchair troubleshooting by looking at a STe schematic.

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Re: 1040 STE PROBLEM.

Postby shaunboots » Wed Jun 26, 2013 6:13 am

hi hippy dave. yes those pins are connected like you say. and pin one is connected to pin two. From the top pin 1. if that makes sense. then a wire goes from pin 2 over the chip to top pin 9 then top pin 8 over to the ym. please armchair troubleshoot away coz im pretty stumped and will try any sugestion.
the extra ram board is dead on my stfm and half a mb ram just isnt enough!

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Re: 1040 STE PROBLEM.

Postby Hippy Dave » Wed Jun 26, 2013 7:26 pm

I think the best thing to do is some sleuthing and visual-inspecting with a schematic in hand. Why was the mod made ? Is it because something was damaged and the 74ls164 was replaced to where it is, or was there never a 74ls164 in the first place ? Maybe someone wanted to upgrade the computer and only got half way. Is it is better to undo the mod ?

Maybe the mod is OK, and something else is wrong. Get out the magnifying glass.

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Re: 1040 STE PROBLEM.

Postby shaunboots » Wed Jun 26, 2013 11:13 pm

the pictures of this motherboard have the "mod" that ive been talking about... except i dont have the extra chip conected to the black wires. viewtopic.php?f=15&t=24829.
now i am thinking that the chip on the black wires is the mod. and the rest of the wires and that white glue was put there by atari... does that sound right? there is also a long red wire on the underside of the board.

so if that is supposed to be there to be there.. its gotta be a bad trace , dry joint , dead chip... or maybe a dodgy tos?

still really curious about that one line in this post viewtopic.php?f=33&t=22859 where he says Floppy is not really workin (special soldering on the YM chip)...
defiantly time for some magnifying glass action.

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Re: 1040 STE PROBLEM.

Postby Zogging Hell » Wed Jun 26, 2013 11:49 pm

shaunboots wrote:thanks zogging hell. my soldering skills are somewhat limited. but i can have a go if i need to. need some practice anyhow. i do have a couple of pc drives but i cant find any way on them to set device number. if i have confirmed the drive works in another Atari it should be safe to assume its not the problem though right?


Yeah it can rule out that. If it works on another ST it should be fine (PC drives tend to use little solder pad bridges to change id, if you look for D0 or D1 labelling on the underside or back, that should be it. You stick a soldering iron on top of the thing connecting the two pads and it comes off, you then move it to the other pad).

Could perhaps the power supply be on the way out and is causing the drive to malfunction as it draws current to read the disk (might be worth swapping the STFM one over as it is a quick and easy thing to do). Other possibility, the cabling from the floppy to the motherboard has been fecked (this really has to take a fair bit of punishment and I'm surprised this isn't a common fault), or the point where it is soldered on to the motherboard had come loose or the solders gone bad.

With your last comment some wires may have been whacked in during manufacture if the board has a minor fault, say a slightly dodgy track. Rather than chuck after it fails testing it it might be fixed in house with a wire bridging the dodgy track. Have you got a multimeter with continuity testing? You could try testing the various wires to see where they should go or aren't going..
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Re: 1040 STE PROBLEM.

Postby shaunboots » Thu Jun 27, 2013 1:50 am

thanks zogging hell those are some good ideas. gives me something to work with. hadn't really considered the power supply , slightly off voltage can produce strange effects on arcade pcbs so i should have considered it. all the wiring and cables look to be in pretty nice condition. the whole system is pretty nice and clean all over. except for a bit of dust up the back so next step power supply then i dig out the multimeter and give myself a headache. still trying to get my head around the schematic. haha.
quick question about tos, what would happen if you power up with no tos roms in.. could tos be loaded from disk like the early st did? and could i damage anything if i tried?

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Re: 1040 STE PROBLEM.

Postby shaunboots » Thu Jun 27, 2013 2:59 am

still the same with different power supply.. what are the chances of it being the floppy controller chip? in my stfm that chip is in a socket. but unfortunately not on the ste.

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Re: 1040 STE PROBLEM.

Postby troed » Thu Jun 27, 2013 1:03 pm

I might've misunderstood something but couldn't this be a case of an HD floppy mod where the drive has been replaced back with a non-HD capable one but the floppy chip is still connected to 16MHz? That would explain why the drive works in another ST but reads garbage in yours.

Although, reading through your description I don't see the floppy chip mentioned. I don't recall serial port multipliers messing up the floppy - I had one made many many years back.

(At some point in time one of my old STs will show up in a thread like this ..)

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Re: 1040 STE PROBLEM.

Postby Zogging Hell » Thu Jun 27, 2013 6:23 pm

shaunboots wrote:thanks zogging hell those are some good ideas. gives me something to work with. hadn't really considered the power supply , slightly off voltage can produce strange effects on arcade pcbs so i should have considered it. all the wiring and cables look to be in pretty nice condition. the whole system is pretty nice and clean all over. except for a bit of dust up the back so next step power supply then i dig out the multimeter and give myself a headache. still trying to get my head around the schematic. haha.
quick question about tos, what would happen if you power up with no tos roms in.. could tos be loaded from disk like the early st did? and could i damage anything if i tried?


I think it would not do anything, the original Disk TOS did have some code on ROMs, for booting the system disk.
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Re: 1040 STE PROBLEM.

Postby Zogging Hell » Thu Jun 27, 2013 6:25 pm

Have you seen this site? there are a lot of instructions for HD mods there which might help.

http://atari4ever.free.fr/
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Re: 1040 STE PROBLEM.

Postby shaunboots » Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:15 pm

thanks guys for sticking with me here. I know my descriptions are pretty bad and long winded and i really appreciate the tips and help.
i did find that site thanks. lots of cool info there but i couldnt find anything matching the wiring on my board. i even translated a bunch of it in google to be sure.
i did find this though.. viewtopic.php?f=15&t=22320&start=25 .
this wiring is same as mine and it was mentioned that it was done in factory and has nothing to do with hd floppy. i have been told that the original owner was not the kind of person that would open up and modify anything. the incorrect disk size changes from boot to boot with the same disk.. not sure what that could mean though. ive put days into this now with no real progress but i cant give up now. it really wants to work i know it... :cry:

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Re: 1040 STE PROBLEM.

Postby Zogging Hell » Fri Jun 28, 2013 12:37 am

Hmm that doesn't sound like yours is modded then. I'd test the continuity on those wires first, as they still may be related. If there is a chip fault finding an external disk drive and trying that with the STe would probably give the same fault.

Have you tried putting a blank floppy disk and tried to format it (ignore opening the disk)? What happens?

There may be a random dry solder joint somewhere, I suppose reflowing all the solder joints in that area might be a bit of a mission! Plus a little risky if you're not to hot on soldering (I'm certainly not, ask my Mega STe..)
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Re: 1040 STE PROBLEM.

Postby dlfrsilver » Fri Jun 28, 2013 2:35 am

Just for information, i have the dreaded and faulty DMA chip on my 2 atari ST (ST, STF, STE).

And here is what happened to me during a dumping of a very rare educative game floppy disk :

i have tried to dump it with pasti, from floppy to hard drive. The files corruption stroke, and while all my hard drive content has been trashed,
and that's way more frightful, the content of the floppy disk has been trashed too, and the write enable whole was opened, so this means that the hardware has been writing on the disk with the write protection on !!!!!

So beware ! Next thing i will do is buying brand new dma chips for each of them. I'm fed up will this bullshits.....
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Re: 1040 STE PROBLEM.

Postby shaunboots » Fri Jun 28, 2013 3:12 am

sorry i forgot to mention that i tried to format a disk. not an empty one though.. it gave a disk read error. i cant remember now if it was disk may be copy protected, or disk may be unusable.. same thing happens when i try to read any of the strange looking files. luckily the data remains intact and on the disk as the disks still work fine in my working st.. dlfrsilver im so sorry to hear about your disk problem . i made a short film as a kid with a program called prism paint, had it saved on a disk that went bad somehow and its gone forever! :cry: i was so proud of that thing... :) i know its unlikely but i do have some old educational games here from when i was young and i think they all still work ok... what was the name of your game? please dont say play spell because i just destroyed it two days ago.. although i may have a backup of that to..
think i need to practice some soldering and maybe even try and get hold of some good dma action also. i figure if i get this guy working a hard drive would be awesome.

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Re: 1040 STE PROBLEM.

Postby dlfrsilver » Fri Jun 28, 2013 12:23 pm

shaunboots wrote:sorry i forgot to mention that i tried to format a disk. not an empty one though.. it gave a disk read error. i cant remember now if it was disk may be copy protected, or disk may be unusable.. same thing happens when i try to read any of the strange looking files. luckily the data remains intact and on the disk as the disks still work fine in my working st.. dlfrsilver im so sorry to hear about your disk problem . i made a short film as a kid with a program called prism paint, had it saved on a disk that went bad somehow and its gone forever! :cry: i was so proud of that thing... :) i know its unlikely but i do have some old educational games here from when i was young and i think they all still work ok... what was the name of your game? please dont say play spell because i just destroyed it two days ago.. although i may have a backup of that to..
think i need to practice some soldering and maybe even try and get hold of some good dma action also. i figure if i get this guy working a hard drive would be awesome.


the game name is actually scoop junior from Génération 5.
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