First PAK board attempt...

Troubles with your machine? Just want to speak about the latest improvements? This is the place!

Moderators: Mug UK, Zorro 2, Greenious, spiny, Moderator Team

User avatar
DarkLord
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 4363
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2004 12:06 pm
Location: Prestonsburg, KY - USA
Contact:

Re: First PAK board attempt...

Postby DarkLord » Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:03 am

Hmm. I'm confused (doesn't usually take much). :)

So you're not using the old internal P/S board? I understand that
the ATX is powering the PAK and the floppy drive - but what is
powering the STacy motherboard itself?

Thanks, and sorry if I'm being dense here. :)
Welcome To DarkForce! http://www.darkforce.org "The Fuji Lives.!"
Atari SW/HW based BBS - Telnet:darkforce-bbs.dyndns.org 520

alanh
Hardware Guru
Hardware Guru
Posts: 1384
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 9:01 pm
Location: North Wales, UK

Re: First PAK board attempt...

Postby alanh » Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:32 am

No, not the old internal PSU.

I use some solid turned pins that insert into the AT PSU's floppy connector and give male pins out, so I insert the reversed floppy connector on the STacy motherboard into it.
Falcon CT60, Falcon CT63 x2, TT x3, MegaST x2, MegaSTE x2, STFM x2, STE x2, STacy, STBook, (Dead) Hades 060, Milan 060, T40.

User avatar
DarkLord
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 4363
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2004 12:06 pm
Location: Prestonsburg, KY - USA
Contact:

Re: First PAK board attempt...

Postby DarkLord » Thu Dec 13, 2012 12:16 pm

Wow, and that powers the STacy's motherboard. I didn't know you could do that. :o
Guess it's just another way of feeding the flow in, eh?

I'm assuming you could do the same thing with the PICO power supply?

When you say reversed...do you mean that literally? Okay, how about a picture
of that connection?

Thanks!
Welcome To DarkForce! http://www.darkforce.org "The Fuji Lives.!"
Atari SW/HW based BBS - Telnet:darkforce-bbs.dyndns.org 520

alanh
Hardware Guru
Hardware Guru
Posts: 1384
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 9:01 pm
Location: North Wales, UK

Re: First PAK board attempt...

Postby alanh » Thu Dec 13, 2012 12:31 pm

Yep, it powers it just fine.

Sure, a PICO would work just as well.

I'll get a picture, but you'll know what I mean if you hold two floppy power connectors together facing each other. :-)
Falcon CT60, Falcon CT63 x2, TT x3, MegaST x2, MegaSTE x2, STFM x2, STE x2, STacy, STBook, (Dead) Hades 060, Milan 060, T40.

User avatar
DarkLord
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 4363
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2004 12:06 pm
Location: Prestonsburg, KY - USA
Contact:

Re: First PAK board attempt...

Postby DarkLord » Thu Dec 13, 2012 12:40 pm

One more quick (non-related) question/observation...

I noticed that your Gembench screen shot was done in ST-High. So if you hook up
a mono/hi-res video cable to the STacy's external monitor port, it apparently will
support ST-High. I wasn't sure about that, didn't know if it would support more
than med and lo since the onboard screen already did Hi.
Welcome To DarkForce! http://www.darkforce.org "The Fuji Lives.!"
Atari SW/HW based BBS - Telnet:darkforce-bbs.dyndns.org 520

User avatar
DarkLord
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 4363
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2004 12:06 pm
Location: Prestonsburg, KY - USA
Contact:

Re: First PAK board attempt...

Postby DarkLord » Thu Dec 13, 2012 12:44 pm

alanh wrote:Yep, it powers it just fine.

Sure, a PICO would work just as well.

I'll get a picture, but you'll know what I mean if you hold two floppy power connectors together facing each other. :-)


So it would be just that easy to drop the internal power supply board and gain that room back and
gain a much cooler/more powerful/stable PS to boot. That's awesome.

Hmm, so it doesn't reverse the polarity when you reverse the connectors? Bah, guess I need to go grab my PICO
and hold it up to the floppy connector on the STacy's MB. Did you keep the first connector for the STacy's original
floppy and use the (blue) connector for when the STacy had a 2nd floppy drive?

Thanks again! :)
Welcome To DarkForce! http://www.darkforce.org "The Fuji Lives.!"
Atari SW/HW based BBS - Telnet:darkforce-bbs.dyndns.org 520

alanh
Hardware Guru
Hardware Guru
Posts: 1384
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 9:01 pm
Location: North Wales, UK

Re: First PAK board attempt...

Postby alanh » Thu Dec 13, 2012 12:53 pm

Doesn't matter which one you use on the STacy motherboard.

But remember, you won't have the voltages available to drive the internal STacy's LCD with a PICO. That requires the STacy's PSU, or some different regulator to generate those voltages.
Falcon CT60, Falcon CT63 x2, TT x3, MegaST x2, MegaSTE x2, STFM x2, STE x2, STacy, STBook, (Dead) Hades 060, Milan 060, T40.

User avatar
DarkLord
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 4363
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2004 12:06 pm
Location: Prestonsburg, KY - USA
Contact:

Re: First PAK board attempt...

Postby DarkLord » Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:47 pm

alanh wrote:
But remember, you won't have the voltages available to drive the internal STacy's LCD with a PICO. That requires the STacy's PSU, or some different regulator to generate those voltages.


Bit confused about this last part.

I think you're saying that the PICO doesn't deliver the super high voltages that a regulator for an El sheet does, right?

I replaced the El sheet in my LCD. It came with its own regulator that I'm using. So it shouldn't be any different for me,
driving that regulator with 12v from the STacy's PSU -or- 12v from the PICO, right?

If I remember correctly, at first I tried driving the new replacement El sheet with the same 2 wire blue/white line which
connects to the end of the STacy's PSU, but it wouldn't work. I had to use the regulator that came with it.

El sheet_PS001.JPG


PA050005.JPG


PA050007.JPG
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Welcome To DarkForce! http://www.darkforce.org "The Fuji Lives.!"
Atari SW/HW based BBS - Telnet:darkforce-bbs.dyndns.org 520

alanh
Hardware Guru
Hardware Guru
Posts: 1384
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 9:01 pm
Location: North Wales, UK

Re: First PAK board attempt...

Postby alanh » Thu Dec 13, 2012 5:35 pm

DarkLord wrote:One more quick (non-related) question/observation...

I noticed that your Gembench screen shot was done in ST-High. So if you hook up
a mono/hi-res video cable to the STacy's external monitor port, it apparently will
support ST-High. I wasn't sure about that, didn't know if it would support more
than med and lo since the onboard screen already did Hi.


Just like a normal 13pin monitor plug. All ST's support it. I have a 13pin->VGA adapter so I can plug it into my monitor, which are wired up to the mono pin to support 640x400.
Falcon CT60, Falcon CT63 x2, TT x3, MegaST x2, MegaSTE x2, STFM x2, STE x2, STacy, STBook, (Dead) Hades 060, Milan 060, T40.

alanh
Hardware Guru
Hardware Guru
Posts: 1384
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 9:01 pm
Location: North Wales, UK

Re: First PAK board attempt...

Postby alanh » Thu Dec 13, 2012 5:36 pm

DarkLord wrote:
alanh wrote:
But remember, you won't have the voltages available to drive the internal STacy's LCD with a PICO. That requires the STacy's PSU, or some different regulator to generate those voltages.


Bit confused about this last part.

I think you're saying that the PICO doesn't deliver the super high voltages that a regulator for an El sheet does, right?

I replaced the El sheet in my LCD. It came with its own regulator that I'm using. So it shouldn't be any different for me,
driving that regulator with 12v from the STacy's PSU -or- 12v from the PICO, right?


Oh, that's perfect then. So you should be good to go to drop the internal STacy PSU.
Falcon CT60, Falcon CT63 x2, TT x3, MegaST x2, MegaSTE x2, STFM x2, STE x2, STacy, STBook, (Dead) Hades 060, Milan 060, T40.

User avatar
DarkLord
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 4363
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2004 12:06 pm
Location: Prestonsburg, KY - USA
Contact:

Re: First PAK board attempt...

Postby DarkLord » Thu Dec 13, 2012 7:36 pm

Okay, cool then.

Just waiting for a picture of your floppy to floppy connector so I don't
make any mistakes on it.

No rush, just whenever you've got a free moment.

Thanks!
Welcome To DarkForce! http://www.darkforce.org "The Fuji Lives.!"
Atari SW/HW based BBS - Telnet:darkforce-bbs.dyndns.org 520

alanh
Hardware Guru
Hardware Guru
Posts: 1384
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 9:01 pm
Location: North Wales, UK

Re: First PAK board attempt...

Postby alanh » Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:09 pm

Yep, Give me an hour or two.
Falcon CT60, Falcon CT63 x2, TT x3, MegaST x2, MegaSTE x2, STFM x2, STE x2, STacy, STBook, (Dead) Hades 060, Milan 060, T40.

alanh
Hardware Guru
Hardware Guru
Posts: 1384
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 9:01 pm
Location: North Wales, UK

Re: First PAK board attempt...

Postby alanh » Thu Dec 13, 2012 11:27 pm

Notice the red wires are 5V. Yellow to blue is 12V. That's why you have to turn one of the floppy connectors around.

photo.JPG
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Falcon CT60, Falcon CT63 x2, TT x3, MegaST x2, MegaSTE x2, STFM x2, STE x2, STacy, STBook, (Dead) Hades 060, Milan 060, T40.

User avatar
DarkLord
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 4363
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2004 12:06 pm
Location: Prestonsburg, KY - USA
Contact:

Re: First PAK board attempt...

Postby DarkLord » Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:21 am

Ah, okay - so the polarity's and voltages are still maintained, its just the connector
shell that's reversed.

Thanks Alan!
Welcome To DarkForce! http://www.darkforce.org "The Fuji Lives.!"
Atari SW/HW based BBS - Telnet:darkforce-bbs.dyndns.org 520

User avatar
DarkLord
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 4363
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2004 12:06 pm
Location: Prestonsburg, KY - USA
Contact:

Re: First PAK board attempt...

Postby DarkLord » Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:47 pm

Important safety tip:

When reassembling the STacy, make a point of not reinstalling the metal, spring
loaded hinge *unless* you already have the 2 bottom halves put back together.
If you just attach the screen section to the upper section of the bottom half
first, and close the lid, there isn't enough support there, and it will crack the
case. Usually not right away, but gradually. You can actually see that part bow
up when the pressure from being closed is put on it.

Don't ask me how I found this out - but its a good thing I've got a couple of
spare STacy parts lying around. :roll:
Welcome To DarkForce! http://www.darkforce.org "The Fuji Lives.!"
Atari SW/HW based BBS - Telnet:darkforce-bbs.dyndns.org 520

User avatar
ralcool
Atari Super Hero
Atari Super Hero
Posts: 692
Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2010 10:52 am
Location: Australia

Re: First PAK board attempt...

Postby ralcool » Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:00 pm

If I am having a bad day Ron- I'll visit your thread.

Misery loves company... Seeing someone else trying really hard to do good things- and crazy annoying stupid things going wrong, is rather amusing in a dark kind of way. :mrgreen:

Chin up mate... you're nearly there!!!

ST :cheers:
4160STFM, (Blitter, 4Mb RAM 72pin, 16Mhz OC, IDE, HD FDD, Quad TOS, LaScan, DS1216E Clock, AT-Speed C16, Tom Kirk PS2 mouse, MegaST Keyboard)
What Intel giveth, Microsoft taketh away
Beer is proof that God loves us, and wants us to be happy
Don't let post count or join date fool you as to who is a newbie, and who knows what's what

User avatar
DarkLord
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 4363
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2004 12:06 pm
Location: Prestonsburg, KY - USA
Contact:

Re: First PAK board attempt...

Postby DarkLord » Sat Dec 15, 2012 1:48 pm

ralcool wrote:If I am having a bad day Ron- I'll visit your thread.

Misery loves company... Seeing someone else trying really hard to do good things- and crazy annoying stupid things going wrong, is rather amusing in a dark kind of way. :mrgreen:

Chin up mate... you're nearly there!!!

ST :cheers:


Hahahaha, you're funny! :lol:

But yeah, it's just a matter of sweating the small details now, I think the major stuff is pretty well licked.
Welcome To DarkForce! http://www.darkforce.org "The Fuji Lives.!"
Atari SW/HW based BBS - Telnet:darkforce-bbs.dyndns.org 520

User avatar
DarkLord
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 4363
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2004 12:06 pm
Location: Prestonsburg, KY - USA
Contact:

Re: First PAK board attempt...

Postby DarkLord » Tue Dec 18, 2012 5:17 am

Unreal, hard to believe but that trick seems to be working. I've got the streaks
down to only one side/corner now. I just going over and over it with a few taps
and/or knocks a few times a day. Who'd have thought it? Add it to the other
repair "oddity" for the ST line, the infamous/semi-legendary 6" drop. :lol:

Also add that to another list of important safety tips concerning the STacy - don't
undo the metal tabs on the LCD panel and open it up for *any* reason. :roll:

Back to the PICO power supply. I've got 2 here now, an 80w and a 120w model.
I had to ground pin#14 and ground/common/black, but it surely does work. I've
got the entire system booting up from this tiny little gizmo. Great stuff.

Alan, you're a bloody genius. Adding you to my long list of Atari people (like Ralcool
and Holger) that if I ever meet you in a pub somewhere, the drinks are on me! :cheers:
Welcome To DarkForce! http://www.darkforce.org "The Fuji Lives.!"
Atari SW/HW based BBS - Telnet:darkforce-bbs.dyndns.org 520

User avatar
ralcool
Atari Super Hero
Atari Super Hero
Posts: 692
Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2010 10:52 am
Location: Australia

Re: First PAK board attempt...

Postby ralcool » Tue Dec 18, 2012 9:58 am

Those little Picos are awesome.. I have one in my AMD64 that runs the media center in my car (90w I think).

On board computing is a great thing. music/videos, and internet when in 3G or WiFi range.

The less I use the 240v inverter the better. Sucks too much power and drops out early.


ST. :cheers:

Might need to upgrade it to SSD for storage though... I've already properly crashed two regular drives from 'normal' driving. :lol:

Edit, Nope It was a 150W version of pico. Future Proofing .... lol..., anyway... Putting one into the ST was a thought... but actually after noticing that even 12V is little used (And one time while using the usual external ATX supply to run my ST.. I did discover the 12v wire had popped out of the molex connector- everything was seemingly working fine.) I figured I could make something even simpler.

From memory, the only circuits in the ST that use 12 and -12V actually... is the serial port buffers.... The -12 is currently made with a small weak transister.
4160STFM, (Blitter, 4Mb RAM 72pin, 16Mhz OC, IDE, HD FDD, Quad TOS, LaScan, DS1216E Clock, AT-Speed C16, Tom Kirk PS2 mouse, MegaST Keyboard)
What Intel giveth, Microsoft taketh away
Beer is proof that God loves us, and wants us to be happy
Don't let post count or join date fool you as to who is a newbie, and who knows what's what

User avatar
DarkLord
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 4363
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2004 12:06 pm
Location: Prestonsburg, KY - USA
Contact:

Re: First PAK board attempt...

Postby DarkLord » Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:02 pm

Hmm, that's interesting about the +5v. What about internal hard drives though, like
came in my STacy originally and can be found in the Mega STe and TT...those are
probably 12v I guess.

Also wondering if 5v would have driven the LCD/El sheet on the STacy. Bet it was
12v too.

I'd say that the 5v does cover most regular ST models though. STacy has always
been an odd beast, as we've discovered. :lol:
Welcome To DarkForce! http://www.darkforce.org "The Fuji Lives.!"
Atari SW/HW based BBS - Telnet:darkforce-bbs.dyndns.org 520

joska
Hardware Guru
Hardware Guru
Posts: 4417
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2007 2:55 pm
Location: Florø, Norway
Contact:

Re: First PAK board attempt...

Postby joska » Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:49 pm

The old floppy-drives in the ST/Stacy also requires 12v.
Jo Even

VanillaMiNT - Firebee - Falcon060 - Milan060 - Falcon040 - MIST - Mega ST - STM - STE - Amiga 600 - Sharp MZ700 - MSX - Amstrad CPC - C64

User avatar
DarkLord
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 4363
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2004 12:06 pm
Location: Prestonsburg, KY - USA
Contact:

Re: First PAK board attempt...

Postby DarkLord » Tue Dec 18, 2012 5:42 pm

joska wrote:The old floppy-drives in the ST/Stacy also requires 12v.


Ah, wondered about that but wasn't sure. Thanks Jo!
Welcome To DarkForce! http://www.darkforce.org "The Fuji Lives.!"
Atari SW/HW based BBS - Telnet:darkforce-bbs.dyndns.org 520

User avatar
DarkLord
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 4363
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2004 12:06 pm
Location: Prestonsburg, KY - USA
Contact:

Re: First PAK board attempt...

Postby DarkLord » Wed Dec 19, 2012 4:56 am

alanh wrote:Not strictly related to the PAK, but here's my new memory board for the STacy.

4MB STRAM now, via SIMM. Apologies about the image quality.



Alan, some questions if you don't mind.

Is it safe to say that basically that left hand motherboard header for the original
memory/TOS board is for the RAM, and the right hand MB header is for TOS? Is
it really divided up that neatly or is there some overlap there?

Just curious! Thanks. :)
Welcome To DarkForce! http://www.darkforce.org "The Fuji Lives.!"
Atari SW/HW based BBS - Telnet:darkforce-bbs.dyndns.org 520

alanh
Hardware Guru
Hardware Guru
Posts: 1384
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 9:01 pm
Location: North Wales, UK

Re: First PAK board attempt...

Postby alanh » Wed Dec 19, 2012 8:25 am

Yes, the left is purely for RAM. The right is for TOS, keyboard and joystick ports, including ACIA that drives the IKBD.
Falcon CT60, Falcon CT63 x2, TT x3, MegaST x2, MegaSTE x2, STFM x2, STE x2, STacy, STBook, (Dead) Hades 060, Milan 060, T40.

User avatar
DarkLord
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 4363
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2004 12:06 pm
Location: Prestonsburg, KY - USA
Contact:

Re: First PAK board attempt...

Postby DarkLord » Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:35 pm

alanh wrote:Yes, the left is purely for RAM. The right is for TOS, keyboard and joystick ports, including ACIA that drives the IKBD.


Well, how convenient! :)
Welcome To DarkForce! http://www.darkforce.org "The Fuji Lives.!"
Atari SW/HW based BBS - Telnet:darkforce-bbs.dyndns.org 520


Social Media

     

Return to “Hardware”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests