Atari st series computers conversion PC

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Re: Atari st series computers conversion PC

Postby LuckyOldMan » Thu Sep 24, 2015 9:34 am

Hi Joska
joska wrote:Oh, I forgot - this is an ST keyboard so it needs a reset-signal as well. ....

I was aware of that when I read your helpfull answer last night - it's marked on my wiring layout!
And I found a hex-file again called Teensy-firmware which I flashed according to this procedure. I did get a confirmation about the DL but there was no fast LED blink when I clicked the reboot button.

joska wrote:..... unless you make a PCB with mouse/joystick connectors and connect it to the keyboard. ...

That's the plan if I'll be successful using a 520STM-housing - I will use the original places for the serial ports on the right side wiring two COM-ports on a slot-plate to the 520KB-18x-pin-plug.

joska wrote: ... Btw I really hope you're not gutting a working STM...

I would never do that! On the contrary: when I bought malfunctioned/incompletely 520/1040 in the past & realized they are still working by adding some parts I have assembled them.
I am the keeper of vintage stuff! :mrgreen:
260ST: TOS 1.0.4/1MB
520STM: TOS 1.0.2/1MB
520STM: TOS 1.0.4/4MB/AT-Speed C16 Rev.2
520ST+: TOS 1.0/1MB
1040STFM: TOS 1.06/1MB
1040STF Tower: KAOS TOS 1.4.2/4 MB/HDD 105S+730S/Toshiba CD-Rom/ZipDrive/AT-Keyboard
4160STE: TOS 2.06/1.62/4 MB
MegaSTE: TOS 2.06/4MB/HDD 103S -
TT030: TOS 3.06/10MB/64MB/Quantum 210S/Megavision300

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Re: Atari st series computers conversion PC

Postby joska » Thu Sep 24, 2015 10:03 am

LuckyOldMan wrote:I am the keeper of vintage stuff! :mrgreen:


:thumbs:
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Re: Atari st series computers conversion PC

Postby LuckyOldMan » Thu Sep 24, 2015 10:32 am

@joska:

Just to keep you relaxed: I'll get an emtpy 520 housing + kb from frank.lukas (a member here & in Atari-home.de) within the next days! ;)

About your wiring attachment: are you sure that reset on the teensy is C6/9/PWM and not RST (between GND & 22/A11)?

Is Rx on ST KB equivalent to Data + & Tx equivalent to Data - on a usb plug or the other way round ? I want to use the usb-colour green & white for wiring.

Which wire size should the wires for +5V & GND have because it has to supply the kb, leds etc. (I guess Rx & Tx are less critically)?
260ST: TOS 1.0.4/1MB
520STM: TOS 1.0.2/1MB
520STM: TOS 1.0.4/4MB/AT-Speed C16 Rev.2
520ST+: TOS 1.0/1MB
1040STFM: TOS 1.06/1MB
1040STF Tower: KAOS TOS 1.4.2/4 MB/HDD 105S+730S/Toshiba CD-Rom/ZipDrive/AT-Keyboard
4160STE: TOS 2.06/1.62/4 MB
MegaSTE: TOS 2.06/4MB/HDD 103S -
TT030: TOS 3.06/10MB/64MB/Quantum 210S/Megavision300

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Re: Atari st series computers conversion PC

Postby joska » Thu Sep 24, 2015 10:41 am

LuckyOldMan wrote:About your wiring attachment: are you sure that reset on the teensy is C6/9/PWM and not RST (between GND & 22/A11)?


Yes. The "reset"-pin on the Teensy is to reset the Teensy - I'm talking about the signal generated by the Teensy program to reset the ST keyboard.

LuckyOldMan wrote:Is Rx on ST KB equivalent to Data + & Tx equivalent to Data - on a usb plug or the other way round ? I want to use the usb-colour green & white for wiring.


They have absolutely nothing to do with each other. Rx and Tx indicates the direction of the data flow. Rx - can only receive on this line. Tx - can only send on this line. That's why you connect Rx <-> Tx/Tx <-> Rx. USB use the same wires for all traffic in both directions. "Data+" and "Data-" is the USB differential data line.

LuckyOldMan wrote:Which wire size should the wires for +5V & GND have because it has to supply the kb, leds etc. (I guess Rx & Tx are less critically)?


Doesn't really matter, there is very little current flowing. I like to use pieces of old IDE ribbon cable for stuff like this...
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Re: Atari st series computers conversion PC

Postby LuckyOldMan » Thu Sep 24, 2015 11:12 am

joska wrote:..... I'm talking about the signal generated by the Teensy program to reset the ST keyboard.

Understood! ;)

joska wrote:.... Rx and Tx indicates the direction of the data flow. Rx - can only receive on this line. Tx - can only send on this line. ...

I knew that & why it works the crossover way. I didn't know how usb works. So I use green & white as it pleases me. ;)

joska wrote:Doesn't really matter, there is very little current flowing. ..
So 0,14mm (model railway wires) is sufficient.

Thanks again for your help! Now I start soldering. :)
260ST: TOS 1.0.4/1MB
520STM: TOS 1.0.2/1MB
520STM: TOS 1.0.4/4MB/AT-Speed C16 Rev.2
520ST+: TOS 1.0/1MB
1040STFM: TOS 1.06/1MB
1040STF Tower: KAOS TOS 1.4.2/4 MB/HDD 105S+730S/Toshiba CD-Rom/ZipDrive/AT-Keyboard
4160STE: TOS 2.06/1.62/4 MB
MegaSTE: TOS 2.06/4MB/HDD 103S -
TT030: TOS 3.06/10MB/64MB/Quantum 210S/Megavision300

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Re: Atari st series computers conversion PC

Postby LuckyOldMan » Thu Sep 24, 2015 11:54 am

Well then ... it seems that everbody isn't successfull with his first attempt - so do I! :(

The green led lights up, the Teensy/KB is recognized by Win10 as a PS/2 standard keyboard but then it ends. No reaction by pushing the keys. When I push the teensy-sw I can hear the standard usb tone.

I checked Rx & Tx on both sides: ok!
260ST: TOS 1.0.4/1MB
520STM: TOS 1.0.2/1MB
520STM: TOS 1.0.4/4MB/AT-Speed C16 Rev.2
520ST+: TOS 1.0/1MB
1040STFM: TOS 1.06/1MB
1040STF Tower: KAOS TOS 1.4.2/4 MB/HDD 105S+730S/Toshiba CD-Rom/ZipDrive/AT-Keyboard
4160STE: TOS 2.06/1.62/4 MB
MegaSTE: TOS 2.06/4MB/HDD 103S -
TT030: TOS 3.06/10MB/64MB/Quantum 210S/Megavision300

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Re: Atari st series computers conversion PC

Postby joska » Thu Sep 24, 2015 12:22 pm

LuckyOldMan wrote:Well then ... it seems that everbody isn't successfull with his first attempt - so do I! :(

The green led lights up, the Teensy/KB is recognized by Win10 as a PS/2 standard keyboard but then it ends. No reaction by pushing the keys. When I push the teensy-sw I can hear the standard usb tone.

I checked Rx & Tx on both sides: ok!


1. You did look up the STM keyboard connector pinout, right? The one I posted is for STF/STFM/STE/Falcon.
2. Double check the connections on the Teensy against this pinout (Teensy 2.0 at the bottom):

Image

If the power-LED on the keyboard lights up you atleast have 5v and gnd hooked up correctly. You may have swapped Rx/Tx around - STM schematics shows the pinout on the motherboard, not the keyboard...
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Re: Atari st series computers conversion PC

Postby LuckyOldMan » Thu Sep 24, 2015 12:47 pm

For this moment I used a 1040STF-KB &I made this wiring according to your attachment (Teensy2 to IKBD keyboard) you've send.

Image

Tx/5 on kb should go to Rx/D2/2 on Teensy (blue) - Rx/6 on kb should go to Tx/D3/8 - right?!
Something wrong with it - should I swap?
260ST: TOS 1.0.4/1MB
520STM: TOS 1.0.2/1MB
520STM: TOS 1.0.4/4MB/AT-Speed C16 Rev.2
520ST+: TOS 1.0/1MB
1040STFM: TOS 1.06/1MB
1040STF Tower: KAOS TOS 1.4.2/4 MB/HDD 105S+730S/Toshiba CD-Rom/ZipDrive/AT-Keyboard
4160STE: TOS 2.06/1.62/4 MB
MegaSTE: TOS 2.06/4MB/HDD 103S -
TT030: TOS 3.06/10MB/64MB/Quantum 210S/Megavision300

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Re: Atari st series computers conversion PC

Postby LuckyOldMan » Thu Sep 24, 2015 12:59 pm

Is this the right hex-file: ST_tastatur_USB.cpp.hex?

I did swap the blue & white wiring anyway in the meantime: no changes!
260ST: TOS 1.0.4/1MB
520STM: TOS 1.0.2/1MB
520STM: TOS 1.0.4/4MB/AT-Speed C16 Rev.2
520ST+: TOS 1.0/1MB
1040STFM: TOS 1.06/1MB
1040STF Tower: KAOS TOS 1.4.2/4 MB/HDD 105S+730S/Toshiba CD-Rom/ZipDrive/AT-Keyboard
4160STE: TOS 2.06/1.62/4 MB
MegaSTE: TOS 2.06/4MB/HDD 103S -
TT030: TOS 3.06/10MB/64MB/Quantum 210S/Megavision300

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Re: Atari st series computers conversion PC

Postby joska » Thu Sep 24, 2015 1:27 pm

Wiring looks correct. Maybe the compiled hex-file doesn't have reset-support compiled in. The keyboard won't work without. Let me have a look at this later tonight.
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Re: Atari st series computers conversion PC

Postby LuckyOldMan » Thu Sep 24, 2015 1:40 pm

joska wrote:Wiring looks correct. ...

I thought so. :)

joska wrote:...Let me have a look at this later tonight.

I would appreciate it very much - thanks! And I'm going to swap the blue & white wires again! :mrgreen:
260ST: TOS 1.0.4/1MB
520STM: TOS 1.0.2/1MB
520STM: TOS 1.0.4/4MB/AT-Speed C16 Rev.2
520ST+: TOS 1.0/1MB
1040STFM: TOS 1.06/1MB
1040STF Tower: KAOS TOS 1.4.2/4 MB/HDD 105S+730S/Toshiba CD-Rom/ZipDrive/AT-Keyboard
4160STE: TOS 2.06/1.62/4 MB
MegaSTE: TOS 2.06/4MB/HDD 103S -
TT030: TOS 3.06/10MB/64MB/Quantum 210S/Megavision300

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Re: Atari st series computers conversion PC

Postby joska » Thu Sep 24, 2015 2:55 pm

Try this one. Not sure if it makes a difference, but worth a try. Compiled with the latest Teensyduino libraries and Arduino 1.0.6.

ST_tastatur_USB.zip
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Re: Atari st series computers conversion PC

Postby LuckyOldMan » Thu Sep 24, 2015 3:52 pm

Well then - as you can see (because I am writing with a ST-kb) this file works like a beauty. :D
I tried another kb in the meantime but there were shown some silly characters. The kb I tried at the beginning still doesn´t work - I have to check it with a ST.
Now I can start building the Teensy-ST520-kb-wiring.
For the moment I´m quite happy - thank you very much!!! :thumbs:
260ST: TOS 1.0.4/1MB
520STM: TOS 1.0.2/1MB
520STM: TOS 1.0.4/4MB/AT-Speed C16 Rev.2
520ST+: TOS 1.0/1MB
1040STFM: TOS 1.06/1MB
1040STF Tower: KAOS TOS 1.4.2/4 MB/HDD 105S+730S/Toshiba CD-Rom/ZipDrive/AT-Keyboard
4160STE: TOS 2.06/1.62/4 MB
MegaSTE: TOS 2.06/4MB/HDD 103S -
TT030: TOS 3.06/10MB/64MB/Quantum 210S/Megavision300

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Re: Atari st series computers conversion PC

Postby joska » Thu Sep 24, 2015 7:21 pm

:thumbs:

Looking forward to the finished product.
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Re: Atari st series computers conversion PC

Postby LuckyOldMan » Thu Sep 24, 2015 7:35 pm

Me too! :D

And thanks again for your support.

I have the kb right in front of me trying to get used to the different keys comparing to the to-day standard.
Maybe you can help me out. How do I get the special characters like @, [],}{ etc (I 'm using my USB-kb in parallel to write these special characters ;))?

Normally I need AltGr which doesnt exist on ST kb.
The alternate key is working (checked it with Contr+Alt+Del = Task manager) but no further reaction on other keys..

By the way: the Atari-mouse plugged into the kb is working fine! :D
260ST: TOS 1.0.4/1MB
520STM: TOS 1.0.2/1MB
520STM: TOS 1.0.4/4MB/AT-Speed C16 Rev.2
520ST+: TOS 1.0/1MB
1040STFM: TOS 1.06/1MB
1040STF Tower: KAOS TOS 1.4.2/4 MB/HDD 105S+730S/Toshiba CD-Rom/ZipDrive/AT-Keyboard
4160STE: TOS 2.06/1.62/4 MB
MegaSTE: TOS 2.06/4MB/HDD 103S -
TT030: TOS 3.06/10MB/64MB/Quantum 210S/Megavision300

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Re: Atari st series computers conversion PC

Postby joska » Thu Sep 24, 2015 10:09 pm

The keyboard interface works in two modes - ST mode and PC mode. You switch between them with three presses on the ALT key alone.

ST mode: Works like an ST keyboard. For use with ST emulators.
PC mode: More suited for "real" work. Some keys are more PC-friendly than in ST mode. CapsLock is now AltGr/Right Alt. Undo -> Ctrl+Z. Help -> F1.

Btw I really should support joysticks properly. Back when I wrote this program the Teensy libraries did not support USB joysticks. Maybe I'll fix this sometime this fall/winter.
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Re: Atari st series computers conversion PC

Postby LuckyOldMan » Fri Sep 25, 2015 5:42 am

Good morning joska, :)

joska wrote:........ You switch between them with three presses on the ALT key alone. ...

Unfortunately not. :(
Either I'm not capable to do it right or something is not working as it should. After pressing the Alternate key three times the CapsLock still works in ST-mode. Help is not reacting as F1, but F1 does. So I presume pressing Alternate key 3x is not working.
260ST: TOS 1.0.4/1MB
520STM: TOS 1.0.2/1MB
520STM: TOS 1.0.4/4MB/AT-Speed C16 Rev.2
520ST+: TOS 1.0/1MB
1040STFM: TOS 1.06/1MB
1040STF Tower: KAOS TOS 1.4.2/4 MB/HDD 105S+730S/Toshiba CD-Rom/ZipDrive/AT-Keyboard
4160STE: TOS 2.06/1.62/4 MB
MegaSTE: TOS 2.06/4MB/HDD 103S -
TT030: TOS 3.06/10MB/64MB/Quantum 210S/Megavision300

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Re: Atari st series computers conversion PC

Postby LuckyOldMan » Fri Sep 25, 2015 9:02 am

Just to complete the ST-KB to Teensy adaptors: here is the version for the 520ST-kb. Works fine too (except unable to get in the PC-mode).

Image

If wanted the Com1-& -2-ports can be wired to the plug too (as shown in the schematic). But at the moment the ST_tastatur_USB-sw works only for the mouse - the joystick mod will be coming soon as joska wrote :wink: (I don't need it - I'm no gamer! :mrgreen: ).
260ST: TOS 1.0.4/1MB
520STM: TOS 1.0.2/1MB
520STM: TOS 1.0.4/4MB/AT-Speed C16 Rev.2
520ST+: TOS 1.0/1MB
1040STFM: TOS 1.06/1MB
1040STF Tower: KAOS TOS 1.4.2/4 MB/HDD 105S+730S/Toshiba CD-Rom/ZipDrive/AT-Keyboard
4160STE: TOS 2.06/1.62/4 MB
MegaSTE: TOS 2.06/4MB/HDD 103S -
TT030: TOS 3.06/10MB/64MB/Quantum 210S/Megavision300

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Re: Atari st series computers conversion PC

Postby joska » Fri Sep 25, 2015 9:43 am

LuckyOldMan wrote:Either I'm not capable to do it right or something is not working as it should. After pressing the Alternate key three times the CapsLock still works in ST-mode. Help is not reacting as F1, but F1 does. So I presume pressing Alternate key 3x is not working.


Strange... Try the attached version. There should be some activity on the Teensy LED when in PC mode.

ST_tastatur_USB.cpp.hex.zip
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Re: Atari st series computers conversion PC

Postby LuckyOldMan » Fri Sep 25, 2015 9:59 am

joska wrote:... There should be some activity on the Teensy LED when in PC mode. ...


Thanks.
When I first connected the Teensy to the kb the led lighted up constantly (still ST modus). When I tried to change the modus to PC (3x Alt) the led started blinking (and backwards).
But in PC-modus there is no change by pressing the now AltGr (ex-CapsLock) to get the special characters. The cursor doesn't move at all.
260ST: TOS 1.0.4/1MB
520STM: TOS 1.0.2/1MB
520STM: TOS 1.0.4/4MB/AT-Speed C16 Rev.2
520ST+: TOS 1.0/1MB
1040STFM: TOS 1.06/1MB
1040STF Tower: KAOS TOS 1.4.2/4 MB/HDD 105S+730S/Toshiba CD-Rom/ZipDrive/AT-Keyboard
4160STE: TOS 2.06/1.62/4 MB
MegaSTE: TOS 2.06/4MB/HDD 103S -
TT030: TOS 3.06/10MB/64MB/Quantum 210S/Megavision300

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Re: Atari st series computers conversion PC

Postby joska » Fri Sep 25, 2015 10:25 am

LuckyOldMan wrote:When I first connected the Teensy to the kb the led lighted up constantly (still ST modus). When I tried to change the modus to PC (3x Alt) the led started blinking (and backwards).


Good. So that part is working.

LuckyOldMan wrote:But in PC-modus there is no change by pressing the now AltGr (ex-CapsLock) to get the special characters. The cursor doesn't move at all.


It is probably related to keyboard layout. I just realized that it was set to US English. There is no Right Alt/AltGr on those keyboards. Try this version instead.

ST_tastatur_USB.cpp.hex.zip
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Re: Atari st series computers conversion PC

Postby LuckyOldMan » Fri Sep 25, 2015 11:00 am

You are the Master of Bits & Bytes! :mrgreen:

So I flashed again - btw - which modus is corresponding to the blinking led? I am a bit confused. :wink:
The led is constant: when I press CapsLock the light goes off - the key works like Shift (big characters). Led on = normal/small characters & I can use Shift as usual.
BLINKING LED = ONLY BIG CHARACTERS - I CAN´T CHANGE THE CAPSLOCK - now i changed again = standard (Standard)

No led = standard too. LED ON 8WELL YOU CAN SEE WHAT IS DOES9 :?
260ST: TOS 1.0.4/1MB
520STM: TOS 1.0.2/1MB
520STM: TOS 1.0.4/4MB/AT-Speed C16 Rev.2
520ST+: TOS 1.0/1MB
1040STFM: TOS 1.06/1MB
1040STF Tower: KAOS TOS 1.4.2/4 MB/HDD 105S+730S/Toshiba CD-Rom/ZipDrive/AT-Keyboard
4160STE: TOS 2.06/1.62/4 MB
MegaSTE: TOS 2.06/4MB/HDD 103S -
TT030: TOS 3.06/10MB/64MB/Quantum 210S/Megavision300

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Re: Atari st series computers conversion PC

Postby joska » Fri Sep 25, 2015 11:02 am

I guess I have to hook up my STE keyboard to a Teensy tonight and do some debugging :D
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Re: Atari st series computers conversion PC

Postby LuckyOldMan » Fri Sep 25, 2015 12:12 pm

joska wrote:.... do some debugging :D


Sorry for creating additional work but .... can't wait to see the results! :mrgreen:

I have some trouble too here with the first Teensy which doesn't react on USB anymore. No sound either when I push the switch for manual.
I just took it off the 1040 kb 1 hour ago to check finally the solder with a magnifying glass. When plugging in the micro-usb cable in no usb signal = no contact. I checked the wires with a beeper: perfect from each pin to Teensy's pads.

Addendum: It's working again! I pushed on that Atmel chip and suddenly I heard the usb signal. :roll:

I have to talk with my supplier!
260ST: TOS 1.0.4/1MB
520STM: TOS 1.0.2/1MB
520STM: TOS 1.0.4/4MB/AT-Speed C16 Rev.2
520ST+: TOS 1.0/1MB
1040STFM: TOS 1.06/1MB
1040STF Tower: KAOS TOS 1.4.2/4 MB/HDD 105S+730S/Toshiba CD-Rom/ZipDrive/AT-Keyboard
4160STE: TOS 2.06/1.62/4 MB
MegaSTE: TOS 2.06/4MB/HDD 103S -
TT030: TOS 3.06/10MB/64MB/Quantum 210S/Megavision300

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Re: Atari st series computers conversion PC

Postby joska » Fri Sep 25, 2015 1:42 pm

LuckyOldMan wrote:Sorry for creating additional work but .... can't wait to see the results! :mrgreen:


Don't worry, it's long overdue. Maybe I'll add joystick support as well.
Jo Even

Firebee - Falcon060 - Milan060 - Falcon040 - MIST - Mega ST - STM - STE - Amiga 600 - Sharp MZ700 - MSX - Amstrad CPC - C64


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