Another failed ST -> vga experiment for me :)

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Re: Another failed ST -> vga experiement for me :)

Postby DrCoolZic » Mon Mar 29, 2010 6:42 pm

As you can guess based on previous reply posted I received my GBS8220 for 35$ from eBay. The board is referenced as a CH6220 but it is in fact a "standard" GBS8220 V3.0 2010/01/19 based on the GBS800MV chip from GONBES.
Before using the board I did some measurement, because I was a bit confused about the different inputs on the board and the operating modes.
To summarize there are two type of entries:
- one for YUV
- one for RGB
and three modes of operation
- one for YUV
- one for RGBS
- one for RGBHV

Based on the measurements I have made ALL the RGB input connectors (P3, P10, P11) use the same signals. Therefore the input voltage is obviously the same for all connectors.
We have:
P10-1 == P11-1 == P3-1
P10-2 == P11-2 == P3-2
P10-3 == P11-3 == P3-3
P10-13 == P11-4 == P11-5 == P3-5
P10-14 == P11-6

I have first connected a power supply and video monitor to the VGA output. The current measured at 4.8V is a bit over 500 mA
I switched from Chinese to English (now each time I power the unit it remember the language)

First series of test where made using the P10 DSUB15 connector.
cabling DIN-P9 (HS) to DSUB-P13 & DIN-P12 to DSUB-PP14
plus of course RGB and GND
I can see the system trying several different "sync" and displaying "multiple desktop" but not stable and ends up with "no signal" indication
With the same sync (HS & VS) I have replaced the RGB input from Atari with the monochrome signal. Here I have a good stable image (not centered) but unfortunately it is Frozen. It seems that the image is "stored" and not following the actual change like cursor move ....

The second series of tests is using pin 2 (Composite sync) of my Atari without RF modulator; This is connected to pin 5 (S) of P3
Here again it does not work but the images are "teared" compared to the "unstable" images when using VS & HS
Seems also that the display froze after a while.
In many case I have actually to "cold reset" the system (unplugging the Power) because even the menu does not work anymore.

I have re-read the thread completely and it seems that may be resistors could help on the sync signals.
I will see if I can find resistors.

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Re: Another failed ST -> vga experiement for me :)

Postby Anemos » Wed Mar 31, 2010 2:07 pm

DrCoolZic wrote:
Anemos wrote:Do you have an Atari with RF modulator?
If not you should have a composite sync signal on pin 2 that must be close to what you describe above.
How did you came to 510 Ohms resistor ? experiment.
I am connecting the composite sync (Atari DIN pin 2) to the Sync of the GBS8220 but the system does not synchronize


Tested on my STE via 13pin RGB out ,i have not RF.
For resistors, yes this simple mod working from 470R ~ 580R ,so i use that 510R,s coz that i have right now..
No result on H -V ,I have tried many combinations alternative,do nothing, that converter donot want working with old machines..
I test the component YUV , on PS3.. screen is perfect on any monitor.
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Re: Another failed ST -> vga experiement for me :)

Postby DrCoolZic » Tue Sep 28, 2010 5:42 pm

I finally completed the test on the Gonbes GBS 8220 :wink:
Here are my results.
As explained connecting on P3, P10 or P11 is the same so I tested both on P3 (5 pins) and P11 (15 pins).

No success using V+H sync (atari 12 & 9) using 15 pins connector. Tried without and with pass through resistor. With resistors 560 Ohm getting very close to sync but not stable :(

Using C Sync (Atari 2) using 15 and/or 5 pin connector. Tried without and with 560 Ohm resistor. Both works BUT:
- only works on RGBHV mode ??? and cannot get correct color. I end up with pink color for white even trying adjustment on variable RGB VR
- system does not display anything initially I have to go to Display menu and change resolution ?!?
- in RGBC I get the right color but no Sync !?!
- I have placed a variable resistor (0-1K Ohm) on C Sync : do not influence in RGBHV mode but do influence the RGBC mode. Unfortunately no chance to sync for any value???

Bottom line. The board is almost unusable for me as I cannot get a reasonable colors. But woks OK if right color is not a problem.

Note I also tried the mode Hsync & vsync connected by capacitor + 2 x 560 ohm resistors but no success :(

I have also tried with the above connection to input Atari monochrome signal but no success.
So it looks like "Another failed ST -> vga experiement for me :)"

I am desperately trying to find a solution where I can connect one monitor to my Atari and use it both in color/mono like I do with my Nec multysync II 8O

PS: my video page http://info-coach.fr/atari/hardware/video.php#GBS will updated today to reflect these results.

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Re: Another failed ST -> vga experiement for me :)

Postby DarkLord » Tue Sep 28, 2010 8:41 pm

Thanks for experimenting - all the efforts help everyone in the end.
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Re: Another failed ST -> vga experiement for me :)

Postby simbo » Fri Oct 01, 2010 2:09 pm

i used an lm1881 ic {ste}
and added no resistors
just use the negative going h and v sync and rgb as normal
via this ic

ill post the circuit i used but its a bit rought
ill tune it a bit first...

i dont have the v3
i assume its just a firmware install

does someone know any point of access to new firmware..?
i already found the flash port details just need the flash parts... ???

i think as usual chinese products to market and badly supported

however it works fine with an st machine and ste

so no complaints here
however v3 firmware would be cool...!
:cheers:

ill keep hunting

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Re: Another failed ST -> vga experiement for me :)

Postby DrCoolZic » Fri Oct 01, 2010 2:25 pm

simbo wrote:however it works fine with an st machine and ste

so no complaints here
however v3 firmware would be cool...!

Does this mean you have a good picture with GBS8220? If so how did you connect?
Why not working for some of us :(

simbo

Re: Another failed ST -> vga experiement for me :)

Postby simbo » Fri Oct 01, 2010 10:43 pm

Anemos wrote:
DrCoolZic wrote:
Anemos wrote:Do you have an Atari with RF modulator?
If not you should have a composite sync signal on pin 2 that must be close to what you describe above.
How did you came to 510 Ohms resistor ? experiment.
I am connecting the composite sync (Atari DIN pin 2) to the Sync of the GBS8220 but the system does not synchronize


Tested on my STE via 13pin RGB out ,i have not RF.
For resistors, yes this simple mod working from 470R ~ 580R ,so i use that 510R,s coz that i have right now..
No result on H -V ,I have tried many combinations alternative,do nothing, that converter donot want working with old machines..
I test the component YUV , on PS3.. screen is perfect on any monitor.




if you use pin 2 and gnd outside wire{pin13 }

pin 2 is the center conductor
and gives composite {yellow socket on a tv} from an ste

try that...

use an old svideo cable and add a 13pin video st socket
or just poke the wires in rough style

remember pin 2 is composite output
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Re: Another failed ST -> vga experiement for me :)

Postby simbo » Fri Oct 01, 2010 10:48 pm

DrCoolZic wrote:As you can guess based on previous reply posted I received my GBS8220 for 35$ from eBay. The board is referenced as a CH6220 but it is in fact a "standard" GBS8220 V3.0 2010/01/19 based on the GBS800MV chip from GONBES.
Before using the board I did some measurement, because I was a bit confused about the different inputs on the board and the operating modes.
To summarize there are two type of entries:
- one for YUV
- one for RGB
and three modes of operation
- one for YUV
- one for RGBS
- one for RGBHV

Based on the measurements I have made ALL the RGB input connectors (P3, P10, P11) use the same signals. Therefore the input voltage is obviously the same for all connectors.
We have:
P10-1 == P11-1 == P3-1
P10-2 == P11-2 == P3-2
P10-3 == P11-3 == P3-3
P10-13 == P11-4 == P11-5 == P3-5
P10-14 == P11-6

I have first connected a power supply and video monitor to the VGA output. The current measured at 4.8V is a bit over 500 mA
I switched from Chinese to English (now each time I power the unit it remember the language)

First series of test where made using the P10 DSUB15 connector.
cabling DIN-P9 (HS) to DSUB-P13 & DIN-P12 to DSUB-PP14
plus of course RGB and GND
I can see the system trying several different "sync" and displaying "multiple desktop" but not stable and ends up with "no signal" indication
With the same sync (HS & VS) I have replaced the RGB input from Atari with the monochrome signal. Here I have a good stable image (not centered) but unfortunately it is Frozen. It seems that the image is "stored" and not following the actual change like cursor move ....

The second series of tests is using pin 2 (Composite sync) of my Atari without RF modulator; This is connected to pin 5 (S) of P3
Here again it does not work but the images are "teared" compared to the "unstable" images when using VS & HS
Seems also that the display froze after a while.
In many case I have actually to "cold reset" the system (unplugging the Power) because even the menu does not work anymore.

I have re-read the thread completely and it seems that may be resistors could help on the sync signals.
I will see if I can find resistors.



the board uses TTL level rgb and sync of 0.76volts {pos}

problem is atari gives analogue RGB and 1.7v p-p sync {neg}

so need to level correct and invert sync

but maybe invert rgb also

not sure v1 2 3 etc
i have a v2 cant get stable auto sync between machines and res change
but a reset of the board between changes fixes it
i am using lm1881 to control sync and an inverter with a switch block
invert or not {test unit ttl chip }

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Re: Another failed ST -> vga experiement for me :)

Postby Anemos » Fri Oct 01, 2010 11:24 pm

DrCoolZic wrote:
Note I also tried the mode Hsync & vsync connected by capacitor + 2 x 560 ohm resistors but no success :(


Hello, try this with only NO polarized capasitor (II) value 0.40 ~ 0.50uf ,like Polyester Film,or Polypropylene Capacitors,and test lower ohm like 2X 480ohm.
I have stop continue my project,i hope to start again with this converter,with other components for better screen.
I cant remember right now,one signal high speed diode value that can be turn the "wave" signal as TTL digital ..
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Re: Another failed ST -> vga experiement for me :)

Postby DrCoolZic » Sat Oct 02, 2010 3:02 pm

Anemos wrote:
DrCoolZic wrote:
Note I also tried the mode Hsync & vsync connected by capacitor + 2 x 560 ohm resistors but no success :(


Hello, try this with only NO polarized capasitor (II) value 0.40 ~ 0.50uf ,like Polyester Film,or Polypropylene Capacitors,and test lower ohm like 2X 480ohm.
I have stop continue my project,i hope to start again with this converter,with other components for better screen.
I cant remember right now,one signal high speed diode value that can be turn the "wave" signal as TTL digital ..

Thanks I will get everything "out of the closet" and test again as you indicate :?
So far my best results where with the Composite Sync signal on pin 2. Taking separate v&h sync did not work for me. But I will try if I can find res an cap as you specified.

Actually apart from "pinky" color the rgbvh mode is not so bad: good stability but terrible color :(

simbo

Re: Another failed ST -> vga experiement for me :)

Postby simbo » Sat Oct 02, 2010 10:10 pm

you use A Schmitt trigger can be implemented with a simple tunnel diode, a diode with an "N"-shaped current–voltage characteristic in the first quadrant

this allows for the right level.. for ttl and also inverts the signal

method is

+vdd >1k res >...V..>|.... diode hsync
...................^out to hsync in ................

bat85 works or try another...

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Re: Another failed ST -> vga experiement for me :)

Postby Anemos » Sun Oct 10, 2010 8:09 am

Hello,we know this strange converter is difficult to synchronize with Atari - Amiga via standard RBGS plug input ..
Here is my new solution via YUV input to VGA,screen is stable,no flicker,auto synchronize with PAL/NTSC,..
but losing a little colors like 20% of green,yellow,white,(not so bad).

Image
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Re: Another failed ST -> vga experiement for me :)

Postby DrCoolZic » Sun Oct 10, 2010 2:18 pm

Anemos wrote:Hello,we know this strange converter is difficult to synchronize with Atari - Amiga via standard RBGS plug input ..
Here is my new solution via YUV input to VGA,screen is stable,no flicker,auto synchronize with PAL/NTSC,..
but losing a little colors like 20% of green,yellow,white,(not so bad).

????? Magic ????? You do a kind of composite Y with green and sync ????
Just to be sure the Atari you are using DOES NOT have an RF modulator ? This imply that pin 2 is video sync and not video composite

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Re: Another failed ST -> vga experiement for me :)

Postby Scarlettkitten » Thu Apr 14, 2011 12:15 am

I recently bought one of those RGB to VGA devices & have produced a pretty good picture by combining H&V sync.

ImageImageImageImage
Image
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Re: Another failed ST -> vga experiement for me :)

Postby Shredder11 » Thu Apr 14, 2011 9:51 am

I notice you have soldered the input wires instead of using a plug and cable; do you plan on fitting this board inside one of your ST machines? Which computer did you have connected when you took the screenshots?

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Re: Another failed ST -> vga experiement for me :)

Postby Scarlettkitten » Thu Apr 14, 2011 7:45 pm

Shredder11 wrote:I notice you have soldered the input wires instead of using a plug and cable; do you plan on fitting this board inside one of your ST machines? Which computer did you have connected when you took the screenshots?


I plan to build it into a case and make a proper cable up.

It's connected to the STE, It didn't produce a picture from the MegaST just a blank white screen.
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Re: Another failed ST -> vga experiement for me :)

Postby Shredder11 » Thu Apr 14, 2011 7:54 pm

Nice and if you could show a photo of the wires soldered to the STE motherboard that would be cool. Video issues are a big issue for ST owners around here and any working solution is bound to be of interest! :cheers:

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Re: Another failed ST -> vga experiement for me :)

Postby Scarlettkitten » Thu Apr 14, 2011 9:06 pm

It's simply

Atari..................Converter

R-------------------------R
G-------------------------G
B--------------------------B

H
Combined >--------------S
V


The RGB converter is an GBS 8200 V4
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Re: Another failed ST -> vga experiement for me :)

Postby bgrunwald » Wed Jun 08, 2011 4:37 am

For anyone who is still interested. I recently purchased the same converter, this one with a Mar. 2011 build date, hooked it to a 1040STf, straight wired to R,B,G,CS,VS,G, and it works Great! I ended up building it into a case with a VGA A/B switch which I use to switch between color and mono. I will U/L a video to Youtube showing the results.

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IMAG0041.jpg
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Re: Another failed ST -> vga experiement for me :)

Postby Anemos » Sat Jun 11, 2011 5:54 am

Ok think the new version of this converter (V4) production 2011 (with one VGA out) has fixing the problems and working good..
My converter has production year 2009 (with 2 vga out),all that part has a problem synchronization signal..
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Re: Another failed ST -> vga experiement for me :)

Postby DrCoolZic » Sat Jun 11, 2011 7:41 am

Would be nice if you could provide the exact wiring that you have used.
Also as there are several models on the net can you provide a link to where you have bought it and how to make sure we are getting latest version (V4?) of the device.

I have the old version of the device and I have never succeded to make it work correctly :(


Edit:
http://www.aliexpress.com/fm-store/8026 ... -2VGA.html
Would that be OK ? does not show revision number?

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Re: Another failed ST -> vga experiement for me :)

Postby Official Ninja » Thu Jun 16, 2011 6:00 pm

bgrunwald wrote:For anyone who is still interested. I recently purchased the same converter, this one with a Mar. 2011 build date, hooked it to a 1040STf, straight wired to R,B,G,CS,VS,G, and it works Great! I ended up building it into a case with a VGA A/B switch which I use to switch between color and mono. I will U/L a video to Youtube showing the results.


Very nice. Have a link where to purchase this board?

Also have you tested in switching between PAL and NTSC? I know there is a program called 5060hz for this....

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Re: Another failed ST -> vga experiement for me :)

Postby FedePede04 » Thu Jun 16, 2011 10:44 pm

i think it was a jungle to find a box that works,
so i ended up buyning a lcd tv 14 days ago.

a Packard bell Maestro 220 TV.
for me the picture quality is ok (not perfect).
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Re: Another failed ST -> vga experiement for me :)

Postby wongck » Fri Jun 17, 2011 12:58 am

FedePede04 wrote: so i ended up buyning a lcd tv 14 days ago.
a Packard bell Maestro 220 TV.
for me the picture quality is ok (not perfect).


It is like a TV output.
Even back when I was using my STFM on a 19inch TV CRT, it has white shadow on the text & lines.
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Re: Another failed ST -> vga experiement for me :)

Postby tamprecision » Fri Jun 17, 2011 3:52 am

love this thread with its talk of resurecting STACYs or should that be STACies............?

good work there chaps
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