Preparing your SD card to work with the ST & PC

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Preparing your SD card to work with the ST & PC

Postby Mug UK » Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:58 pm

Here's the first draft of a guide which will eventually make it onto the Wiki but for now is up for discussion, amendment, and general derision from those who know a lot more than I do :)

What I recently did was purchase a load of 2nd hand Micro SD cards (256MB & 512MB) and wanted to create a series of cards that I could just pop into the ST, back up some old disks (via MSA, PASTI or plain old file copying) and then take that SD card and bung it in my PC. I'd got my original SD card working almost a year ago in this method, but had never taken down any hints or tips on how I managed it. So with these spare cards and some formatting of SD cards under Windows, I fine-tuned the guide and present it you all SatanDisk & HDDriver owners.

What I'd like to see are:

a) any corrections / differences in how *you* get your SD (normal, Mini or Micro) working so that the same card is readable under the ST & PC

b) separate threads with a similar guide to use some other kind of driver / utility (i.e. BigDOS and ICD Tools?)

I'd sent a preview of the guide to both Jookie & BJ and they pointed out a few things which needed a tweak so this, in theory, is probably v0.2 but what the hell. It's the first public version :)

Download, read, have a go yourself and let me know if I've missed anything or, more importantly, cocked up on anything!
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I develop a free Word (for Windows) add-in that's available for Word 2007 upwards. It's a fix-it toolbox that will allow power Word users to fix document errors. You can find it at: http://www.mikestoolbox.co.uk

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Re: Preparing your SD card to work with the ST & PC

Postby ppera » Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:46 am

I think that people in most cases will go on new SD card - because is not easy to find/buy used ones (posting costs may be high for instance). New cards of 1-2-4 GB are cheap.
Guide covers only 1 partition on card, what is not acceptable for capacities over 512MB. There are ways to have compatible partitioning for several partitions. + it is always better to have at least 3-4 partitions than only 1.
Popular drivers support DOS type partitioning, so can access all FAT16 partitions under some limitations, + needs BIGDOS. But nothing is perfect - for instance some games don't like BIGDOS.

Notice in guide about inability to format FAT32 partition is not clear for me. Why would someone use FAT32 on his 1040ST(E) ? Not to mention that you need at least one FAT16 part for booting driver on Atari.

Finally, 'readable' on ST and PC means not 100% that it will be bootable too on ST. So, it needs to be described what driver/partitoning types allow booting, and how to solve it.

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Re: Preparing your SD card to work with the ST & PC

Postby Mug UK » Sat Jan 17, 2009 5:18 pm

As I state in the guide - anyone who wants to do their own guide for FAT32 / other drivers is more than welcome. My guide works for any sized card up to 512MB for those who want a quick and easy way to transfer files between their ST & PC. Never said it was going to cover every possible scenario - that's for others to come up with a similar guide, with similar detail (i.e. *lots* of ST screenshots!) so that they can all go onto the Wiki.

I'm going to buy some more 2nd hand 256 / 512MB cards tomorrow all being well - they work for me and what I'm doing with them.
My main site: http://www.mug-uk.co.uk - slowly digging up the bits from my past (and re-working a few): Atari ST, Sega 8-bit (game hacks) and NDS (Music ripping guide).

I develop a free Word (for Windows) add-in that's available for Word 2007 upwards. It's a fix-it toolbox that will allow power Word users to fix document errors. You can find it at: http://www.mikestoolbox.co.uk

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Re: Preparing your SD card to work with the ST & PC

Postby Awol » Mon Jan 19, 2009 9:50 am

Nice guide, muguk! :cheers:

When I get UltraSatan, I will be using ICD Pro (because it's free) and 8 GB cards (because I can :lol:).
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Re: Preparing your SD card to work with the ST & PC

Postby Jookie » Mon Jan 19, 2009 9:59 am

Grey_and_Purple wrote:... and 8 GB cards (because I can :lol:).


Well, what TOS version do you have? And how much RAM? Older TOS versions have limits on maximum partition size...

Look here:
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=14869&p=127412

Jookie

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Re: Preparing your SD card to work with the ST & PC

Postby ppera » Mon Jan 19, 2009 12:53 pm

muguk wrote:As I state in the guide - anyone who wants to do their own guide for FAT32 / other drivers is more than welcome. ..


I will write some guide in html format. Mostly covering multiple partitions and benefit of that. FAT32 is not really something what average ST user needs (because it needs Mint or Magic) , but will cover it shortly too. And it will be universal, not only for Satandisk.

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Re: Preparing your SD card to work with the ST & PC

Postby Mug UK » Mon Jan 19, 2009 12:59 pm

Jookie - does ICD Tools have a TOS/Win compatible option? Not used that in a few years so am out of touch with what it can / can't do. If it does then I'll redo the manual to include the ICD Tools variant if that's what is required.

PPera - my guide (with the ICD tools update) will eventually go onto the Wikipedia. Would be handy if your guide is on there too.
My main site: http://www.mug-uk.co.uk - slowly digging up the bits from my past (and re-working a few): Atari ST, Sega 8-bit (game hacks) and NDS (Music ripping guide).

I develop a free Word (for Windows) add-in that's available for Word 2007 upwards. It's a fix-it toolbox that will allow power Word users to fix document errors. You can find it at: http://www.mikestoolbox.co.uk

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Re: Preparing your SD card to work with the ST & PC

Postby ppera » Mon Jan 19, 2009 1:19 pm

muguk wrote:...
PPera - my guide (with the ICD tools update) will eventually go onto the Wikipedia. Would be handy if your guide is on there too.

Will html format (with some screen capturings from real machines) be OK for easy putting on Wiki ? Some AVI maybe - max 2MB size... ? I think that will do it in 2 days...

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Re: Preparing your SD card to work with the ST & PC

Postby AtariSince1989 » Mon Jan 19, 2009 1:32 pm

Great stuff, sure I'm gonna use it as soon as I'll get my UltraSatan.

Just one thing; On the section 2.Requirements, subsectio a) you wrote: a) an ST/STE/Mega STE – so long as it’s got an ASCI port and TOS v1.04 or higher

Guess you mean to say ACSI :wink:
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Re: Preparing your SD card to work with the ST & PC

Postby Jookie » Mon Jan 19, 2009 2:30 pm

ppera wrote:And it will be universal, not only for Satandisk.


Well, I think that there is nothing SatanDisk or UltraSatan specific in MugUK's or mine guide, it just has been done with SatanDisk and UltraSatan, but can be done with any other hard disk or CF card.

ppera

Re: Preparing your SD card to work with the ST & PC

Postby ppera » Mon Jan 19, 2009 5:25 pm

Jookie wrote:...
Well, I think that there is nothing SatanDisk or UltraSatan specific in MugUK's or mine guide, it just has been done with SatanDisk and UltraSatan, but can be done with any other hard disk or CF card.


Right.
I have problems with booting from DOS/TOS compatible partition. 1 partition of 511MB. TOS 2.06. Tried with Hddriver 7.80 and 8.20. With Satandisk and 1GB SD, and with IDE IF and hard disk of 4GB. After restart and loading driver from floppy it allowed installing of Hddriver, but wont boot - in any of 4 combinations of driver versions and disks. HW is OK, as booting with Hddriver from TOS compatible partition works well. Are this version of Hddriver problematic with such boot, or there is something else ?

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Re: Preparing your SD card to work with the ST & PC

Postby Mug UK » Mon Jan 19, 2009 7:15 pm

AtariSince1989 wrote:Great stuff, sure I'm gonna use it as soon as I'll get my UltraSatan.

Just one thing; On the section 2.Requirements, subsectio a) you wrote: a) an ST/STE/Mega STE – so long as it’s got an ASCI port and TOS v1.04 or higher

Guess you mean to say ACSI :wink:


Ah yes .. oops. Guess I write ASCII more these days than ASCI :oops: Will amend my master copy ready for the next update.
My main site: http://www.mug-uk.co.uk - slowly digging up the bits from my past (and re-working a few): Atari ST, Sega 8-bit (game hacks) and NDS (Music ripping guide).

I develop a free Word (for Windows) add-in that's available for Word 2007 upwards. It's a fix-it toolbox that will allow power Word users to fix document errors. You can find it at: http://www.mikestoolbox.co.uk

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Re: Preparing your SD card to work with the ST & PC

Postby Desty » Mon Jan 19, 2009 7:40 pm

muguk wrote:Guess I write ASCII more these days than ASCI

Seems that way :mrgreen:
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Re: Preparing your SD card to work with the ST & PC

Postby Jookie » Mon Jan 19, 2009 9:04 pm

ppera wrote:HW is OK, as booting with Hddriver from TOS compatible partition works well. Are this version of Hddriver problematic with such boot, or there is something else ?


Hard to say, but I think that I read somewhere (in the HDDRIVER manual?) that it can't boot from DOS partition/drive. Or am I wrong again?

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Re: Preparing your SD card to work with the ST & PC

Postby ppera » Tue Jan 20, 2009 1:58 pm

It is not DOS partitioned, but compatible (TOS/DOS). Exactly same as Muguk described. Only 1 partition of 511MB.
By DOS partitioned drives it never appears option for driver install. Here it appears after rebooting and loading driver, app from floppy, and says that driver is successfully installed. But after reset it just boots not.

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Re: Preparing your SD card to work with the ST & PC

Postby jd » Tue Jan 20, 2009 2:06 pm

Excellent guide

:)

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Re: Preparing your SD card to work with the ST & PC

Postby pterodactyl » Tue Feb 03, 2009 4:56 am

I purchased two 512MB SD Cards and tried to set them up as per the aforementioned guide.
I've tried several times, with no luck really. :?
Formatting in PC worked (Fat), once placed in a SatanDisk/1024STF with 4 MB. HdDriver 8.23 saw SD Card and allowed the performance of all steps in Windows/TOS compatible partitioning and driver installation. After which the SD Card does NOT work in the PC anymore.

Does the number of tracks and heads matter? :?:

I'll try to get a few more to try different brands. :|

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Re: Preparing your SD card to work with the ST & PC

Postby Mug UK » Tue Feb 03, 2009 6:59 am

The brands I used were mostly Nokia ones from mobile phones and put inside Micro-SD adapters. But I did try a 32Mb one and an ex-TomTom card - but neither of those worked and are having the same symptons as your two 512MB cards.
My main site: http://www.mug-uk.co.uk - slowly digging up the bits from my past (and re-working a few): Atari ST, Sega 8-bit (game hacks) and NDS (Music ripping guide).

I develop a free Word (for Windows) add-in that's available for Word 2007 upwards. It's a fix-it toolbox that will allow power Word users to fix document errors. You can find it at: http://www.mikestoolbox.co.uk

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Re: Preparing your SD card to work with the ST & PC

Postby AtariZoll » Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:36 pm

Fascinating thread. Who knows, knows.
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Re: Preparing your SD card ??

Postby johncarteronmars » Fri Apr 06, 2012 12:49 am

Feel silly asking but in your guide you say to format the sd first with PC fat / or FAT 32

I was planning on using HDDRIVER and I thought that the
formatting was part of the process using HDDriver

You do suggest though that I just place the SD card In my PCs slot for it, and format it to FAT 32 ?

I know your reasoning about transfer with PC but if all I was going to do is
TOS partition should I just let HDDRIVER do it all?? :)

tks in advance

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Re: Preparing your SD card to work with the ST & PC

Postby rocket-dog » Fri Apr 06, 2012 8:39 pm

If you don't mind me asking why wouldn't you want to transfer files out into the wider world?

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Re: Preparing your SD card to work with the ST & PC

Postby Official Ninja » Wed May 02, 2012 2:27 am

I just got a 1040STe with a Satan Disk. I followed the guide but it wasnt working. I tried many SD cards and had the same luck every time.
The card worked in the STE , but not in my Windows XP laptop with the card reader built in.

Then for the hell of it, I fired up my new Windows 7 laptop. Popped the SD card in there and it worked. There was hddriver.sys.

So question is, why wont the XP laptop read the card? Is it a limit of XP, or of the built in card reader?

Im glad to be able to share the card with windows 7, easy way to dump games on it. However the XP laptop is the "hobby" laptop with all the ST files on it.
So I'd still like to figure out how to get that working.

Thanx.

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Re: Preparing your SD card to work with the ST & PC

Postby Official Ninja » Wed May 02, 2012 2:52 am

Official Ninja wrote:I just got a 1040STe with a Satan Disk. I followed the guide but it wasnt working. I tried many SD cards and had the same luck every time.
The card worked in the STE , but not in my Windows XP laptop with the card reader built in.

Then for the hell of it, I fired up my new Windows 7 laptop. Popped the SD card in there and it worked. There was hddriver.sys.

So question is, why wont the XP laptop read the card? Is it a limit of XP, or of the built in card reader?

Im glad to be able to share the card with windows 7, easy way to dump games on it. However the XP laptop is the "hobby" laptop with all the ST files on it.
So I'd still like to figure out how to get that working.

Thanx.


Some good news. I found a very old USB card reader I had. I popped that in the XP laptop and it works fine through that device.

As my luck would have it, I went around the house and every other computer I own with a reader can use the card fine.
So it has to be just this reader built into this laptop with the problem.

So, if you follow the guide and the SD card doesnt work on your PC, try another reader!

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Re: Preparing your SD card to work with the ST & PC

Postby Official Ninja » Sat May 05, 2012 4:05 pm

Anyone with an original SatanDisk able to create a partition great than 512mb?

I have tried several cards, 1gb and 2gb and the most I can use on them is 512mb.

In hddriver the larger partitions (up to 1gb) seem to be created fine but when I reboot they aren't usable.
At boot hddriver lists the partition C, but TOS 1.62 does not make a drive icon and hddutil doesn't list anything to install hddriver on.

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Re: Preparing your SD card to work with the ST & PC

Postby Mug UK » Sat May 05, 2012 8:13 pm

From memory I couldn't get more than 512MB partitions working when I owned the original Satandisk. I also based it on the maximum settings that HDDriver told me was possible.
My main site: http://www.mug-uk.co.uk - slowly digging up the bits from my past (and re-working a few): Atari ST, Sega 8-bit (game hacks) and NDS (Music ripping guide).

I develop a free Word (for Windows) add-in that's available for Word 2007 upwards. It's a fix-it toolbox that will allow power Word users to fix document errors. You can find it at: http://www.mikestoolbox.co.uk


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