problem upgrading TOS roms

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Gunstar
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problem upgrading TOS roms

Postby Gunstar » Mon Oct 27, 2003 11:29 pm

Ok, maybe I'm missing something, I don't know. What I do know is I have a 520 that has the Rainbow TOS in 6 chips that I want to install in my 1040 that currently has TOS 1.0 or 1.2 on two chips. The chips for both versions of TOS are the same size with the same size sockets in both machines (all six sockets too). they are labeled in my 1040 and L1-3 and H1-3 and these designations are also on the chips themselves. So I figure, cool, easy upgrade, just unplug the chips from the 520 and 1040 and switch them, putting them in the proper order as labeled. But it doesn't work in my 1040! All I get a white screen. Same with the 520 when I installed the two chips in the corresponding sockets in it. so, are there some jumpers or something that need to be changed? What's up with this? maybe I'm plugging them in backwards or something? I do know how to look for notches and dots on chips and sockets designating the were pin 1 is, etc. but maybe, it being Atari, something is screwy here?

PS-just a little more info, incase it makes a difference, the 520 mother board is REV. D(?) I think, it has the TOS roms under the power supply and the ram in the front, the 1040 is REV. C(?) with the ram under the powersupply and the TOS rom sockets to the far left in a single row instead of two parallel rows under the PS like the 520. I may have the C&D designations backwards, it's been a week and the machine are reassembled right now. But I do know I have the chip placement on the motherboards correct for each machine. The 520 board doesn't have an open spot to install a Blitter chip&socket, the 1040 does...
And it shall come to pass, in the days when the Dark Hunt rides,
when the right hand falters and the left hand strays,
that mankind shall come to the Crossroads of Twilight and all that is,
all that was, and all that will be shall balance on the point of a sword,
while the winds of the Shadow grow.-From 'The Prophecies of the Dragon'

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Re: problem upgrading TOS roms

Postby jens » Tue Oct 28, 2003 6:42 am

Gunstar wrote:So, are there some jumpers or something that need to be changed?

When there are six chips they have to be bridged by soldering something (I don't know what, but someone told me as I had the same problem.), when there are two, they mustn't.
That's because of the two chips having the same total size as the six others.

Hope you'll find someone who can tell you where to solder the bridges. :)
Greetings, Jens

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Re: problem upgrading TOS roms

Postby Zorro 2 » Tue Oct 28, 2003 8:46 am

Gunstar wrote:Ok, maybe I'm missing something, I don't know. What I do know is I have a 520 that has the Rainbow TOS in 6 chips that I want to install in my 1040 that currently has TOS 1.0 or 1.2 on two chip

Hum... if I understand, you have a 520 STE and a 1040 STF ?

For information, you can put a TOS ROM 1.62 (Rainbow) on an Atari STF without appending electronics component.
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Postby simonsunnyboy » Tue Oct 28, 2003 9:35 am

..but it will not work properly. Tos 1.62 does not probe for STE specific hardware, it assumes this hardware is available. It will therefor bomb out on plain STs.
TOS 2.x has proper hardware detection and configuration, so it will work on plain STs.
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Postby Ragstaff » Tue Oct 28, 2003 10:06 am

Why are you doing this, may I ask? Does the 520 not work? If it has rainbow TOS, that means it's an STE.
If it does work, you'd be much better getting some memory for it (1meg 30pin simms, cheap as sh*t :-) ) than trying to put its ROMs in a 1040Stf. The STE is a better machine than the ST/F/M in a lot of respects, and the only difference between a 520 and a 1040 is the memory.

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Postby simonsunnyboy » Tue Oct 28, 2003 2:01 pm

Sorry to correct you:
Rainbow TOS doesn't imply STE. TOS 1.04 already has the rainbow symbol (if watched in colour modes) and this TOS does not support STE hardware.
Rainbow TOS only means post-1989 production ST.
The STE TOS 1.6x was based on TOS 1.04, mainly adding support for the STE specific hardware.
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Postby Gunstar » Tue Oct 28, 2003 4:02 pm

NO STE involved, the 520 is an STFM model and the 1040 an STF model, the 520 has had significant upgrades to it, but your are right in thinking I'm doing this because it doesn't work, at least not at the moment. Even if it were and STE, I'd prefer the ST with 1meg over an STE with 512k! Not that that is relevent, since this 520 has been upgraded with a 4meg sim board and a 4096 color mod as I talked about in another thread in this forum topic see: "John Russell innovations upgrades" thread. The problem with the 520 is that, one, the floppy drive is screwed and two, the 4096 board is screwing up the system somehow, some incompatiblities or other (I assume it's the mod); besides the desktop and a very few games, everything I load is shifted to right on the screen so that only half the picture is there! the left side is just black! because of this, i returned my good drive to my 1040 and wanted to install the rainbow TOS (whatever version it is) into the 1040. If I could find any info or instructions on the John Russell innovations modifications, I might be able to figure out the problem and make use of the better 520 or at least transfer the memory mod to the 1040. But I can't find any info on it. I've google searched for hours and posted here for help with no luck. I SHOULD be able to switch these roms if I can find out what changes need to be made as suggested above. I'd love to be able to just use the upgraded 520! But at this point it looks like I have to settle for upgrading my 1040 with the newer TOS.
And it shall come to pass, in the days when the Dark Hunt rides,

when the right hand falters and the left hand strays,

that mankind shall come to the Crossroads of Twilight and all that is,

all that was, and all that will be shall balance on the point of a sword,

while the winds of the Shadow grow.-From 'The Prophecies of the Dragon'

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Postby karlm » Thu Nov 27, 2003 10:35 pm

erm ... if i read your post correctly :

one machine has tos in 2 chips

the other in 6 chips ...

this means that you must get a 6 chip version for the 6 chip machine,
a 2 chip version for the 2 chip machine.

plugging in the corresponding roms from a 6 chip into a 2 chip and vice versa WILL NOT WORK.
the machine will be addressing the ROM in an incorrect way, thus your 'whitescreenofdeath' :)

karlm.

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Postby Gunstar » Wed Dec 03, 2003 4:09 pm

I'm sorry, but I really expected people here to know a bit more I guess. I've only been an ST owner for a year and I KNOW it IS possible to put a six chip rom set into an ST which currently has a 2 chip set!!! The SOCKETS are there for it!!! I've already found upgrade instructions for taking a six chip set-up and modding it to work with a 2 chip upgrade! I would just reverse engineer this mod to go from 2 to 6 chip! problem is, it's in French and is designed for systems that have different sized sockets.
BOTH OF MY MACHINES HAVE SIX SOCKETS TO ACCOMIDATE 6 CHIPS AND THE CHIPS AND SOCKETS ARE THE SAME SIZE!!! I KNOW it's just a matter of changing some jumpers or something. If the machine was made to only use 2 chips then why would there be 6 sockets!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Obviously, like most things, I'm going to have to figure it out myself. People still continue to insist that Amiga's can't read IBM disks like ST's and I've found THAT to be FALSE!!! I have done it!!! So much disimformation flows around and most of you seem to except it as gospel, hook, line, and sinker!! I'll get it done, i was just hoping for some instructions to make it easier. :x

I do appreciate the replies though, even if it is all FALSE info.
Last edited by Gunstar on Wed Dec 03, 2003 4:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
And it shall come to pass, in the days when the Dark Hunt rides,

when the right hand falters and the left hand strays,

that mankind shall come to the Crossroads of Twilight and all that is,

all that was, and all that will be shall balance on the point of a sword,

while the winds of the Shadow grow.-From 'The Prophecies of the Dragon'

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Postby Gunstar » Wed Dec 03, 2003 4:12 pm

karlm wrote:erm ... if i read your post correctly :

one machine has tos in 2 chips

the other in 6 chips ...

this means that you must get a 6 chip version for the 6 chip machine,
a 2 chip version for the 2 chip machine.

plugging in the corresponding roms from a 6 chip into a 2 chip and vice versa WILL NOT WORK.
the machine will be addressing the ROM in an incorrect way, thus your 'whitescreenofdeath' :)

karlm.


With no modifications, yes, this is true, I ALREADY KNOW THIS BY TESTING IT! (if you had read my first post!), but I'm positive it CAN be slightly modified to accomidate the six chips since the damn machine was designed with SIX sockets for SIX chips!!! Thankyou for confirming what I already know though. :roll:
And it shall come to pass, in the days when the Dark Hunt rides,

when the right hand falters and the left hand strays,

that mankind shall come to the Crossroads of Twilight and all that is,

all that was, and all that will be shall balance on the point of a sword,

while the winds of the Shadow grow.-From 'The Prophecies of the Dragon'

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Postby Gunstar » Wed Dec 03, 2003 4:26 pm

simonsunnyboy wrote:..but it will not work properly. Tos 1.62 does not probe for STE specific hardware, it assumes this hardware is available. It will therefor bomb out on plain STs.
TOS 2.x has proper hardware detection and configuration, so it will work on plain STs.


Well, I have RAINBOW on a normal, 520STFM and it WORKS FINE. Why should Rainbow imply version 1.62?!? I just want to get it on my NORMAL 1040STF!

God!!! I'm not pissed at anyone here, I'm just VERY upset at all the disinformation spewing out. I know electronics and I know one thing for sure; ANYTHING can be made to work if you know what you are doing! I could take an Amiga and ST and combine them on the same damn motherboard if I wanted too! It's just a matter of if it's worth the trouble, time and effort. I was just hoping to get some instructions from someone who has already done this mod, but apparently i won't find what I'm looking for here anyway. Maybe i'll have to be the first to do it and make the instructions myself. This mod CAN and WILL be done, that much I can garuantee, even if it means tracing the whole damn motherboard with a multimeter and Oscilliscope and the basic ST motherboard schematics, I'll do it! Thanks for nothin' everyone! Again, I'm just generally upset at the lack of knowledge available here and not at anyone in particuliar, so don't get mad at me or think i'm mad at you, i'm just generally mad. :x
And it shall come to pass, in the days when the Dark Hunt rides,

when the right hand falters and the left hand strays,

that mankind shall come to the Crossroads of Twilight and all that is,

all that was, and all that will be shall balance on the point of a sword,

while the winds of the Shadow grow.-From 'The Prophecies of the Dragon'

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Postby Zorro 2 » Wed Dec 03, 2003 4:38 pm

Try dis but italian comment...

Code: Select all


   ------------------------------------------------------------------------
   Istruzioni per il montaggio del TOS su 6 EPROM al posto del TOS su 2 ROM
   ------------------------------------------------------------------------

   -  Rimuovere le due ROM in posizione U10 e U9
   -  Rimuovere i Jumpers tra PIN2 e PIN3 di W2 e W3
   -  Connettere PIN1 a PIN2 di W2 e W3
   -  Inserire il Jumper W4
   -  Tagliare il PIN12 di U12 (74LS11)
   -  Inserire le sei EPROM seguendo le indicazioni:

      LOW0 to LOW0
      LOW1 to LOW1, ecc., ecc.

   Tiziano Incerti
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karlm
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Postby karlm » Fri Dec 05, 2003 1:05 am

Dude! Chill out!

Ok. The tos you have will be 1.4. 1.62 was a 'fixed' version with STE hardware improvements. So you can do it, as both are 6 chip sockets. Check the changes that need to be done to address the ROMs in Zorro2 's post.
As for your disinformation quote, well sorry to all the people who wanted to help you out.
Sheesh.

karlm.

--------
Instructions for the assembly of the TOS on 6 EPROM in place of the TOS on 2 ROM -
- remove the two ROM in position U10 and U9
- remove the Jumpers between PIN2 and PIN3 of W2 and W3
- connect PIN1 to PIN2 of W2 and W3
- insert the Jumper W4
- cut the PIN12 of U12 (74LS11)
- insert the six EPROM following the indications:
LOW0 to LOW0 LOW1 to LOW1, etc, etc.
--------

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karlm
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Postby karlm » Fri Dec 05, 2003 5:17 am

just on that 4096 color mod - is that the one where an additional shifter chip was basically piggybacked onto the existing one? if so I think i have the info somewhere, including test software.

karlm.

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st 1040fm rom info

Postby shuttlebug » Sat Dec 06, 2003 9:55 pm

a little bit of info if you havent already seen this.
at
http://www.sothius.com/hypertxt/welcome ... ition.html :)
shuttlebug

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The only thing you forget is to change the jumpers

Postby soviet » Fri Feb 20, 2004 12:44 am

next to the rom chips are some solder pad's this pads tell the machine where starts the rom code where end and the number of roms.
This pads have descriptibe texts writed next to them.
So only look at the pads in the two computers and invert them.
is pretty easy.

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Re: problem upgrading TOS roms

Postby DoomMaster » Sat Jul 17, 2004 11:02 am

Gunstar wrote:Ok, maybe I'm missing something, I don't know. What I do know is I have a 520 that has the Rainbow TOS in 6 chips that I want to install in my 1040 that currently has TOS 1.0 or 1.2 on two chips. The chips for both versions of TOS are the same size with the same size sockets in both machines (all six sockets too). they are labeled in my 1040 and L1-3 and H1-3 and these designations are also on the chips themselves. So I figure, cool, easy upgrade, just unplug the chips from the 520 and 1040 and switch them, putting them in the proper order as labeled. But it doesn't work in my 1040! All I get a white screen. Same with the 520 when I installed the two chips in the corresponding sockets in it. so, are there some jumpers or something that need to be changed? What's up with this? maybe I'm plugging them in backwards or something? I do know how to look for notches and dots on chips and sockets designating the were pin 1 is, etc. but maybe, it being Atari, something is screwy here?

PS-just a little more info, incase it makes a difference, the 520 mother board is REV. D(?) I think, it has the TOS roms under the power supply and the ram in the front, the 1040 is REV. C(?) with the ram under the powersupply and the TOS rom sockets to the far left in a single row instead of two parallel rows under the PS like the 520. I may have the C&D designations backwards, it's been a week and the machine are reassembled right now. But I do know I have the chip placement on the motherboards correct for each machine. The 520 board doesn't have an open spot to install a Blitter chip&socket, the 1040 does...


First, let me clear something up: TOS 1.4 is Rainbow TOS. TOS 1.6 is STE TOS (not Rainbow TOS). There, now that I have said this, I will help you with your problem. Yes, there are two jumper pads that must be bridged with solder. Below is a close-up picture of those pads.
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