MSTE boots at 60Hz..

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MSTE boots at 60Hz..

Postby christos » Fri Aug 08, 2008 2:16 pm

Ok, this is a tough one, I've got this mste with german TOS, when I boot it it defaults to a pal 60Hz display (???). When I set it to PAL 50Hz (PAL - M probably) (small gfa program) it works but the video out sometimes becomes not so nice. I use composite video so I guess it outputs what it's programmed to output. Anyway, Any ideas as to why and what I need to do? Here is a screenshot after a clean boot
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Re: MSTE boots at 60Hz..

Postby Mug UK » Fri Aug 08, 2008 2:44 pm

Is it an American machine inside but a German TOS / keyboard on the outside? Run 'The Sentinel' on it - that changes it's name I think if it detects an American machine to 'The Sentry'?
My main site: http://www.mug-uk.co.uk - slowly digging up the bits from my past (and re-working a few): Atari ST, Sega 8-bit (game hacks) and NDS (Music ripping guide).

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Re: MSTE boots at 60Hz..

Postby ppera » Fri Aug 08, 2008 3:02 pm

Only reasonable explanation is that it has hacked TOS, with changed initial TV freq.

Not so nice video? Welcome to PAL composite world. Seriously. some machines are now old, and picture is not so good. It is so by my Mega STE, and even worse by one 1040 ST. Probably some components are not in best condition.

Certainly not US machine - then would not have colors, just some color noise. Maybe from south America, where PAL N and M is used , with 60Hz. Wait, Mengele was German... :mrgreen:
You can be sure about South America, if check crystal frequency of PAL encoder.

Btw. there is a couple sys. var in machine. For TV standard, time in msecs between 2 frames (what gives refresh rate).

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Re: MSTE boots at 60Hz..

Postby christos » Fri Aug 08, 2008 3:04 pm

Actually this happens when I change it to 50Hz and that only some times.. well my cable should be partially blamed I guess... Also.. I don't think MSTE's were sold at South America... The TOS was UK before the previous owner changed it to German.
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Re: MSTE boots at 60Hz..

Postby PaulB » Fri Aug 08, 2008 3:14 pm

Man! I think I would change that cable first before I looked at anything else. :lol:

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Re: MSTE boots at 60Hz..

Postby christos » Fri Aug 08, 2008 3:26 pm

Needless to say that I've taken some very good video grabs with that same cable from the falcon...

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Re: MSTE boots at 60Hz..

Postby ijor » Fri Aug 08, 2008 6:34 pm

christos wrote:Ok, this is a tough one, I've got this mste with german TOS, when I boot it it defaults to a pal 60Hz display (???). When I set it to PAL 50Hz (PAL - M probably) (small gfa program) it works but the video out sometimes becomes not so nice. I use composite video so I guess it outputs what it's programmed to output. Anyway, Any ideas as to why and what I need to do? Here is a screenshot after a clean boot


How do you know it is PAL?

It is not possible to detect the video encoding by software. The only thing that the software can detect is the PAL flag in the TOS rom, and the current video refresh rate. Not the actual PAL/NTSC encoding of the video circuitry.

If it's an European TOS (doesn't matter if Uk or German), and it boots at 60 Hz, then it is definitely a hacked TOS. Just make sure you don't have any boot software (floppy or hard disk) that is changing the refresh rate without you knowing.

If you would dump and post your TOS we shoud be able to know more.

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Re: MSTE boots at 60Hz..

Postby christos » Fri Aug 08, 2008 6:38 pm

Hi ijor,
Well my TV card (PCI) recognises it as PAL 60... so I am pretty sure (NTSC setting is b&w). I' ll do the tos dump and upload..

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Re: MSTE boots at 60Hz..

Postby ijor » Fri Aug 08, 2008 6:47 pm

christos wrote:Well my TV card (PCI) recognises it as PAL 60... so I am pretty sure (NTSC setting is b&w).


Ok, I see. I thought you perhaps might be thinking it was PAL because of what the above Sysinfo claims. NTSC might be B&W or color depending on your TV/monitor/TV card. Many are multi-norm nowadays.

Either way, PAL 60 doesn't necessarily means PAL-M (used in Brazil). Conceivable that MSTE is coming from Brazil (it doesn't matter if they were never officially sold there, somebody at Brazil could have modified it). But that would be very unlikely. More probably is standard PAL.

Yes, a TOS dump would be interesting.

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Re: MSTE boots at 60Hz..

Postby christos » Fri Aug 08, 2008 7:19 pm

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Re: MSTE boots at 60Hz..

Postby ijor » Fri Aug 08, 2008 7:35 pm

christos wrote:Uploaded


At first glance it looks a standard 50Hz TOS. Try using it in Steem, and you will see it boots at 50Hz, not at 60Hz.
I didn't compare it with a standard German TOS. Don't have one right now.

Double check you are not booting "something" that changes the refresh rate to 60Hz (again, floppy or hard disk). Does it have an internal hard disk?

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Re: MSTE boots at 60Hz..

Postby christos » Fri Aug 08, 2008 7:58 pm

It does have an internal hard disk but I tried it with clean boot. Maybe something installed in the MBR? BTW. how can I tell if it's 60Hz or 50Hz in steem?

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Re: MSTE boots at 60Hz..

Postby christos » Fri Aug 08, 2008 8:06 pm

Tried it in STEEM with GFABASIC and a peek($ffff820a) and I get 254. I believe for 50Hz I should have 252. And it's the same for the UK tos 2.06 I have... Sysinfo gives Pal 60Hz in both Toses for STEEM.

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Re: MSTE boots at 60Hz..

Postby ijor » Fri Aug 08, 2008 8:34 pm

christos wrote:Tried it in STEEM with GFABASIC and a peek($ffff820a) and I get 254. I believe for 50Hz I should have 252. And it's the same for the UK tos 2.06 I have...


It's the other way around. 254 for 50Hz, and 252 for 60Hz.

Use the debug build of Steem. Open a memory browser at FF820A. Steem browser is smart enough and will show you if the 50Hz is selected or not.

Sysinfo gives Pal 60Hz in both Toses for STEEM.


Then something is wrong with that Sysinfo, or you are again not using a clean boot with Steem.

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Re: MSTE boots at 60Hz..

Postby christos » Fri Aug 08, 2008 9:10 pm

I get an FF00 on steem debug... not sure what it means...

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Re: MSTE boots at 60Hz..

Postby ijor » Fri Aug 08, 2008 9:28 pm

christos wrote:I get an FF00 on steem debug... not sure what it means...


Hmm. Are you sure that is on a memory browser at FF820A ???
Do you get the 50Hz selection box?

Can you post a screenshoot of that browser.

(starting to fear you might be cursed today, don't worry, probably just today :) )

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Re: MSTE boots at 60Hz..

Postby christos » Fri Aug 08, 2008 9:48 pm

Problem is that I don't really know how to use steem debug.. :D

And being stupid... I got it.. It's 50Hz on steem debug...

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Re: MSTE boots at 60Hz..

Postby christos » Fri Aug 08, 2008 9:55 pm

Any chance that I have an american machine with UK/DE TOS and that messes things up?

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Re: MSTE boots at 60Hz..

Postby ijor » Fri Aug 08, 2008 10:39 pm

christos wrote:Any chance that I have an american machine with UK/DE TOS and that messes things up?


An US computer with an Euro TOS shouldn't mess things up. And I don't think it is US, otherwise it would be NTSC.

Three points:

1 - Check again if your Sysinfo is not bad. Seems it was on Steem.
2 - Make sure you are booting really clean. Just in case, disconnect the hard disk. And boot from a freshly formatted disk.
3 - Was you the one that complained about problems with the cache? Was with the same computer? If so, it might be a hardware problem.

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Re: MSTE boots at 60Hz..

Postby christos » Fri Aug 08, 2008 11:06 pm

Yeah, the same one... Well it's not the fact that sysinfo complains, more that the TV card works only at the pal 60 setting (using dscaler). Also when I try video recording it has to be on 30fps. So I am pretty confident it does boot at 60. Of course my tv tuner could be absolutely wrong...

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Re: MSTE boots at 60Hz..

Postby ppera » Sat Aug 09, 2008 10:17 am

File compare with TOS 2.06 DE says: no difference. So, it is unchanged German TOS.
So, put yourself together, and boot with ALT key pressed :mrgreen:
Then see what Hz is video...

It's very unlikely that some HW failure causes it to start at 60Hz.

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Re: MSTE boots at 60Hz..

Postby christos » Sat Aug 09, 2008 10:23 am

Been there done that 60Hz even with alt boot.

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Re: MSTE boots at 60Hz..

Postby ppera » Sat Aug 09, 2008 10:30 am

christos wrote:Been there done that 60Hz even with alt boot.


Hmmm - again something unlikely: boot record of hard disk sets to 60Hz. What hard disk driver ?
Note: pressing ALT prevents not executing hard disk boot sector, it just prevents loading of driver.

So, best to listen to Ijor, and detach hard disk. While do it, may look at PAL encoder to see is something soldered , added there...

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Re: MSTE boots at 60Hz..

Postby christos » Sat Aug 09, 2008 11:59 am

I haven't got a clue of what happened or what was changed but I now get good output at PAL BGDH or something and not in pal 60... One thing is for sure... those video settings are much easier on the falcon.. Now if I could get some proper software to work with my card.. something that wouldn't make interlacing so apparent...

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Re: MSTE boots at 60Hz..

Postby ppera » Sat Aug 09, 2008 12:49 pm

Khmmm...
I have Pinnacle card with solid SW, but not good enough (although it has deinterlace).
Can recommend to use Virtual Dub - it is best for capturing, has lot of settings, may use some filters etc. And is good
for pure viewing. Another good thing is Dscaler.
Of course, it may happen that mentioned programs will not work with your card, or it's drivers.


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