Biggest flaw in Atari ST's design

Troubles with your machine? Just want to speak about the latest improvements? This is the place!

Moderators: Mug UK, Zorro 2, Greenious, spiny, Moderator Team

Biggest flaw in Atari ST's design

No BUS expansion slot
39
26%
Keyboard design
9
6%
Usage of FAT (MS DOS) filesystem
1
1%
TOS
1
1%
ACSI port
19
13%
Video subsystem
42
28%
YM chip for audio
20
14%
Other
17
11%
 
Total votes: 148

galahad
Obsessive compulsive Atari behavior
Obsessive compulsive Atari behavior
Posts: 134
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2005 1:30 pm
Location: Amiga

Re: Biggest flaw in Atari ST's design

Postby galahad » Wed Oct 28, 2009 3:44 pm

wongck wrote:
galahad wrote:So in conclusion, the biggest flaw? Jack Tramiel!


Not so sure, without him may be there will not be an ST :? :roll:


Actually the Atari engineers had something better lined up before the Tramiels took over, but decided to cost cut and release the ST instead.

User avatar
Station90
Atarian
Atarian
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2009 4:52 pm
Location: Jersey C.I.

Re: Biggest flaw in Atari ST's design

Postby Station90 » Wed Oct 28, 2009 10:28 pm

Casting my mind back through the cobwebs of time to when the original ST - STFMs were on sale, I think the biggest thing that held it back was the lack of ease in upgrading the memory. When going to purchase a computer in a shop you had to choose between the 520 ST or the 1040 ST in you wanted more memory. If you choose the 520 to save some money to spend on software, and wanted to upgrade the memory later, then you either had to know how to solder or had to pray that your motherboard had a socketed MMU and Shifter chip so that you could use one of the upgrades that plugged in to them. With the Amiga you just had the 500 and if you wanted to upgrade the memory to 1MB you bought a little board, opened a little hatch on the underneath and just plugged it in. You also got a battery backed clock for your trouble.

Second thing I would of liked would be to have a battery backed clock installed in the ST from the start, a simple thing that would cure the annoyance of having to set the clock all the time.

The third thing I would have liked is to have the OS on a cartridge (like the Atari 800 did), so that you could upgrade it easily, and if you found that something did not work with the new OS, just plug in the old OS cartridge.

The final thing I would have liked on my original STFM would have been a socked CPU, so I would not have had to spend all that money getting it socketed so that I could fit in the TOS upgrade board I bought and a CPU+FPU upgrade board (on top of that) that could run at 8 or 25 mhz (which didn't work at that speed because of the low quality half meg of ram I had on the board and could not be bothered to disable). One thing that is strange is why are there so many different motherboard versions of the STFM, adding a space for a blitter but not putting one on the board, moving the memory around, using more or less chips for the TOS.

Now moving on to the STE which I bought a couple of years ago, if it had been able to run at 16mhz like the Mega STE could, then I would have upgraded to that at the time. Instead I bought a Mega drive and then inherited the bosses old Compaq laptop with a 386 running at 25mhz and 12 megs of ram running windows 3.11. (Glad that PC's had finally caught up form the dark days of DOS, but not so happy with fiddling with config.sys and autoexec.bat everytime I wanted to run a game but having to lose the ethernet driver, and the netware driver etc). The laptop originally cost £3,000.00 in 1991 (i think, might have been later).

I also aquired an Amiga 500 and 1200 myself a couple of years ago and I find the workbench OS, which has to load from disk or Hard disk, to be not as easy to use as the GEM desktop and is languising in a box whilst my STE sits under my monitor / tv with the excellent Ultrasatan attached to it. The Amiga 500 has a main expansion port but apart from a hard disk and cdrom drive, nothing much else I can see got released for it, and it did not have a SCSI port on the back of the Amiga itself. The ST ASCI port had not only hard disks and cdrom attachable but also Ataris lazer printer, a PC cpu box and the Transputer CPU/s box attachable and you could have also bought a SCSI ethernet adapter around the time (but I do not know if it would have worked as the ASCI port lacked some of the functions of the SCSI port).

The thing is, I think some people have forgotten about how much things cost back then, memory cost an arm and a leg, powerful CPU's cost the same as a complete STFM, SCSI cost a lot too, and the hard disks were fairly small in capacity. But SCSI was faster than IDE for a long time and was more reliable. When I was looking after a UNISYS mainframe computer which had three packs of 4 x 20 meg SCSI hard disks I only had one hard disk failure. (The mainframe cost £75,000 second hand and the printer attached to it which produced reports cost £26,000, pity they didn't throw in a free Ferrari with the deal)

During the time I was using the ST I really enjoyed the popularity it had, the Atari scene in the UK really changed when Jack Tramiel was running the show. I had a bleak time with the Atari 800 (where I lived) when Warner Comms controlled Atari.

Also remember, alot of mistakes have been made by others as well as Atari. Sega messed up after the Megadrive, Nintendo messed up after the SNES, IBM do not make IBM branded computers anymore, Compaq has been absorbed into HP, TIME, Panrix, Tiny have all gone. Also Acorn who had some fantastic designs for the Archimedes / RISC PCs did not succeed either (I think the abilty to add power to your computer by adding a Slice was a great idea).

Anyway now days Windows PCS wind me up on how long they take to load up to a useable desktop (despite dual core, lots of ram, big fast hard disk). Macs OS X take far less time, but my printers do not work over ethernet.

User avatar
wongck
Ultimate Atarian
Ultimate Atarian
Posts: 12789
Joined: Sat May 03, 2008 2:09 pm
Location: Far East
Contact:

Re: Biggest flaw in Atari ST's design

Postby wongck » Thu Oct 29, 2009 2:50 pm

galahad wrote:Actually the Atari engineers had something better lined up before the Tramiels took over, but decided to cost cut and release the ST instead.

Wow... really? Was that then the Amiga?
I think Comondore swipe off their nose, no?
My Stuff: FB/Falcon CT63 CTPCI ATI RTL8139 USB 512MB 30GB HDD CF HxC_SD/ TT030 68882 4+32MB 520MB Nova/ 520STFM 4MB Tos206 SCSI
Shared SCSI Bus:ScsiLink ethernet, 9GB HDD,SD-reader @ http://phsw.atari.org
My Atari stuff for sale - click here for list

galahad
Obsessive compulsive Atari behavior
Obsessive compulsive Atari behavior
Posts: 134
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2005 1:30 pm
Location: Amiga

Re: Biggest flaw in Atari ST's design

Postby galahad » Fri Oct 30, 2009 12:58 am

wongck wrote:
galahad wrote:Actually the Atari engineers had something better lined up before the Tramiels took over, but decided to cost cut and release the ST instead.

Wow... really? Was that then the Amiga?
I think Comondore swipe off their nose, no?


No, nothing to do with Amiga. Remember the Amiga machine was developed outside of both Atari and Commodore, but Atari engineers were already working on something that whilst may not have beaten the Amiga outright, would have given Atari a fighting chance. The Tramiels basically junked all of the innovations the engineers came up with to produce the ST, christ, the 68000 wasn't even the ST's first choice processor, the Tramiels at first were insistent on using a National CPU, and it was the only time they actually listened to their engineers when they said 68000 was the only choice.

galahad
Obsessive compulsive Atari behavior
Obsessive compulsive Atari behavior
Posts: 134
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2005 1:30 pm
Location: Amiga

Re: Biggest flaw in Atari ST's design

Postby galahad » Fri Oct 30, 2009 1:05 am

Station90 wrote:
I also aquired an Amiga 500 and 1200 myself a couple of years ago and I find the workbench OS, which has to load from disk or Hard disk, to be not as easy to use as the GEM desktop and is languising in a box whilst my STE sits under my monitor / tv with the excellent Ultrasatan attached to it. The Amiga 500 has a main expansion port but apart from a hard disk and cdrom drive, nothing much else I can see got released for it, and it did not have a SCSI port on the back of the Amiga itself. The ST ASCI port had not only hard disks and cdrom attachable but also Ataris lazer printer, a PC cpu box and the Transputer CPU/s box attachable and you could have also bought a SCSI ethernet adapter around the time (but I do not know if it would have worked as the ASCI port lacked some of the functions of the SCSI port).


Apart from Hard Drives and CD-ROM...... Action Replay 1, 2 & 3 Cartridges, Nordic Power Cartridge, Ethernet Interface, and with the correct Zorro II adapter, could use any internal cards designed for the bigger box Amigas, and there was an absolute PLETHORA of cards and devices.

User avatar
wongck
Ultimate Atarian
Ultimate Atarian
Posts: 12789
Joined: Sat May 03, 2008 2:09 pm
Location: Far East
Contact:

Re: Biggest flaw in Atari ST's design

Postby wongck » Fri Oct 30, 2009 1:45 pm

galahad wrote:No, nothing to do with Amiga. Remember the Amiga machine was developed outside of both Atari and Commodore, but Atari engineers were already working on something that whilst may not have beaten the Amiga outright, would have given Atari a fighting chance. The Tramiels basically junked all of the innovations the engineers came up with to produce the ST, christ, the 68000 wasn't even the ST's first choice processor, the Tramiels at first were insistent on using a National CPU, and it was the only time they actually listened to their engineers when they said 68000 was the only choice.


Great history lesson!!
Anyway I can get the full story? :wink:
My Stuff: FB/Falcon CT63 CTPCI ATI RTL8139 USB 512MB 30GB HDD CF HxC_SD/ TT030 68882 4+32MB 520MB Nova/ 520STFM 4MB Tos206 SCSI
Shared SCSI Bus:ScsiLink ethernet, 9GB HDD,SD-reader @ http://phsw.atari.org
My Atari stuff for sale - click here for list

User avatar
Station90
Atarian
Atarian
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2009 4:52 pm
Location: Jersey C.I.

Re: Biggest flaw in Atari ST's design

Postby Station90 » Fri Oct 30, 2009 6:00 pm

galahad wrote:
Apart from Hard Drives and CD-ROM...... Action Replay 1, 2 & 3 Cartridges, Nordic Power Cartridge, Ethernet Interface, and with the correct Zorro II adapter, could use any internal cards designed for the bigger box Amigas, and there was an absolute PLETHORA of cards and devices.


Thanks for putting me right. You would have had to put the Amiga in big tower though for some of those expansion cards?

For a time I had my ST in a tower case (from the Atari Workshop) because of the height of the TOS upgrade board and the faster CPU, and the hard disk with bare ICD scsi board and decided afterwards that I prefered it in its original case, with the hard disk hanging off the back in its own case. I think that is the way things are going now with modern pcs, just plug in a device using a small interface like USB rather than having a big card slot.

User avatar
wongck
Ultimate Atarian
Ultimate Atarian
Posts: 12789
Joined: Sat May 03, 2008 2:09 pm
Location: Far East
Contact:

Re: Biggest flaw in Atari ST's design

Postby wongck » Sat Oct 31, 2009 4:56 am

Station90 wrote:For a time I had my ST in a tower case (from the Atari Workshop) because of the height of the TOS upgrade board and the faster CPU, and the hard disk with bare ICD scsi board and decided afterwards that I prefered it in its original case, with the hard disk hanging off the back in its own case. I think that is the way things are going now with modern pcs, just plug in a device using a small interface like USB rather than having a big card slot.


:lol: that's what is happening on my Falc - with network and DVD drive hanging out at the back .... :mrgreen:
My Stuff: FB/Falcon CT63 CTPCI ATI RTL8139 USB 512MB 30GB HDD CF HxC_SD/ TT030 68882 4+32MB 520MB Nova/ 520STFM 4MB Tos206 SCSI
Shared SCSI Bus:ScsiLink ethernet, 9GB HDD,SD-reader @ http://phsw.atari.org
My Atari stuff for sale - click here for list

martyg
Retro freak
Retro freak
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2009 10:59 pm

Re: Biggest flaw in Atari ST's design

Postby martyg » Wed Nov 04, 2009 12:29 am

Willsy wrote:The reason is that in my opinion, the Atari ST is an absolutley incredible design, when one considers what the original engineers did, in the time they had. What they came up with was amazing.

We must remeber that Tramiel knew what was coming from Commodore (the Amiga). Of course, Commodore didn't design the Amiga, Jay Miner did, Commodore just bought them, but Tramiel KNEW what was coming, and in classic Tramiel style, got the best out of his engineers and produced the Atari ST in record time.


I'm not sure what you're talking about here, unless you're going by the oft repeated myth that the ST was designed in response to the Amiga?

IIRC the ST was designed in around six months.


The ST design started in the Spring of '84. By the time Jack bought the Atari Consumer properties in early July, they already had it planned out. The wire wrap was done by late August/early Sept. and OS development began.

I also think GEM was a work of art; again, developed for the 68000 in a very short time


Huh? GEM was developed by DRI, and they already had a 68000 version. What Jack's team did was work on getting it to run over the newer developed GEMDOS instead of the previously considered (and already finished) CPM-68K.

- Once again, Tramiel knew what the Amiga had, and knew he had to get something special put together quickly.


The ST was not designed "quickly" in some supposed response to Amiga. That's a myth.

We must remember that the Amiga had some 6 years of development before Commodore even saw it!


Way off base again. Amiga development was started in 1982. Commodore checked out the prototype in June of '84.
Marty

Atari Gaming Headquarters
http://www.atarihq.com

Atari Inc. - Business Is Fun
http://ataribook.com

Electronic Entertainment Museum (E2M)

Midwest Gaming Classic
http://www.midwestgamingclassic.com

martyg
Retro freak
Retro freak
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2009 10:59 pm

Re: Biggest flaw in Atari ST's design

Postby martyg » Wed Nov 04, 2009 12:34 am

wongck wrote:
galahad wrote:No, nothing to do with Amiga. Remember the Amiga machine was developed outside of both Atari and Commodore, but Atari engineers were already working on something that whilst may not have beaten the Amiga outright, would have given Atari a fighting chance. The Tramiels basically junked all of the innovations the engineers came up with to produce the ST, christ, the 68000 wasn't even the ST's first choice processor, the Tramiels at first were insistent on using a National CPU, and it was the only time they actually listened to their engineers when they said 68000 was the only choice.


Great history lesson!!
Anyway I can get the full story? :wink:



That's not entirely true. Atari Inc. was also working on a game console, computer, and coin-op board all based on the Amiga chipset as well.
And while they weren't interested in the advanced research already going on, a lot of it walked out the door as well - so it wouldn't have mattered if they were interested or not. Some of it they managed to salvage, and were sincerely looking in to the AMY chip - a much more advanced sound chip than Amiga's and designed by the legendary Alan Kay's team.
Marty

Atari Gaming Headquarters
http://www.atarihq.com

Atari Inc. - Business Is Fun
http://ataribook.com

Electronic Entertainment Museum (E2M)

Midwest Gaming Classic
http://www.midwestgamingclassic.com

SofiST
Atari Super Hero
Atari Super Hero
Posts: 591
Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2009 12:25 pm

Re: Biggest flaw in Atari ST's design

Postby SofiST » Sat Mar 26, 2011 10:07 am

Some recent thoughts about design flaws:
STE DMA audio samplerates (stays for TT, Falcon) : strange frequencies choised: 50066 Hz and its derivates. It makes a lot of conversion troubles. Really can not get the reason - maybe saving couple cents ?

SW 'design' flaws: choosing MS DOS compatible filesystems on floppies (FAT12) and hard disks (FAT16), but then doing it so lame and incompatible, that data exchange is not possible without special SW. To remind: FAT12 on floppies and FAT16 on hard disks using Intel byte-order, and it is so in TOS too. By floppy they messed up initial bytes and FAT size. By hard disks use different partition tables and worse: different partition parameters by BIG (over 32MB) partitions.

User avatar
wongck
Ultimate Atarian
Ultimate Atarian
Posts: 12789
Joined: Sat May 03, 2008 2:09 pm
Location: Far East
Contact:

Re: Biggest flaw in Atari ST's design

Postby wongck » Sat Mar 26, 2011 12:30 pm

You can't say those were wrong designs or decisions back then because they were good decisions back at those time.
May be the specifications of certain things changed along with time.

Take LaserDisc for example. It was a great media for movies, especially for Asia, was like the standard after VHS.
Then years pass and it was replaced by Digital technology for example VCD etc...

So standards do change and improve for the better.... but ST remained.
My Stuff: FB/Falcon CT63 CTPCI ATI RTL8139 USB 512MB 30GB HDD CF HxC_SD/ TT030 68882 4+32MB 520MB Nova/ 520STFM 4MB Tos206 SCSI
Shared SCSI Bus:ScsiLink ethernet, 9GB HDD,SD-reader @ http://phsw.atari.org
My Atari stuff for sale - click here for list

User avatar
Desty
Atari God
Atari God
Posts: 1970
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2004 2:36 pm
Location: 53 21N 6 18W
Contact:

Re: Biggest flaw in Atari ST's design

Postby Desty » Sat Mar 26, 2011 7:59 pm

wongck wrote:Take LaserDisc for example. It was a great media for movies, especially for Asia, was like the standard after VHS.

And it brought us great games like Dragon's Lair [smilie=greencolorz4_pdt_09.gif]
tá'n poc ar buile!

User avatar
wongck
Ultimate Atarian
Ultimate Atarian
Posts: 12789
Joined: Sat May 03, 2008 2:09 pm
Location: Far East
Contact:

Re: Biggest flaw in Atari ST's design

Postby wongck » Sun Mar 27, 2011 1:34 am

Firefox... not the browser but the fighter plane.
My Stuff: FB/Falcon CT63 CTPCI ATI RTL8139 USB 512MB 30GB HDD CF HxC_SD/ TT030 68882 4+32MB 520MB Nova/ 520STFM 4MB Tos206 SCSI
Shared SCSI Bus:ScsiLink ethernet, 9GB HDD,SD-reader @ http://phsw.atari.org
My Atari stuff for sale - click here for list

User avatar
Mal7921
Captain Atari
Captain Atari
Posts: 386
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2005 10:48 pm
Location: Huddersfield UK
Contact:

Biggest flaw in Atari ST's design

Postby Mal7921 » Sun Mar 27, 2011 7:52 am

As a side note of history, atari did have access to the amiga chipset qt the time of the tramiel takeover and had given amiga Inc. A loan to help in the development of the chipset.

However even the amiga was outclassed by some of the features of sierra and gaza, codenames for 2 machines that were in the research and development labs at the time.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The collection:

Atari 260ST, 520ST, 520ST+, 520STfm
Atari STe
Atari Falcon, 14MB, 40GB IDE drive

Dal
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 4178
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2011 12:31 am
Location: Cheltenham, UK
Contact:

Re: Biggest flaw in Atari ST's design

Postby Dal » Sun Mar 27, 2011 8:29 am

Yes quite bizarre really, due to the hostile Tramiel takeover and Atari's reluctance to develop the 'lorraine' chipset (designed by a then Atari-employee),we ended up with what would have been Atari's home computer being released by 'Commodire'...
Mega"SST" 12, MegaSTE, STE: Desktopper case, IDE interface, UltraSatan (8GB + 512Mb) + HXC floppy emulator. Plus some STE's/STFM's

User avatar
wongck
Ultimate Atarian
Ultimate Atarian
Posts: 12789
Joined: Sat May 03, 2008 2:09 pm
Location: Far East
Contact:

Re: Biggest flaw in Atari ST's design

Postby wongck » Sun Mar 27, 2011 10:45 am

He only trust those from his previous company... that was the problem, and so is blinkered to see the better machines.
What do you expect, a cut throat business and so you can only trust your own guys.
My Stuff: FB/Falcon CT63 CTPCI ATI RTL8139 USB 512MB 30GB HDD CF HxC_SD/ TT030 68882 4+32MB 520MB Nova/ 520STFM 4MB Tos206 SCSI
Shared SCSI Bus:ScsiLink ethernet, 9GB HDD,SD-reader @ http://phsw.atari.org
My Atari stuff for sale - click here for list

SofiST
Atari Super Hero
Atari Super Hero
Posts: 591
Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2009 12:25 pm

Re: Biggest flaw in Atari ST's design

Postby SofiST » Mon Mar 28, 2011 11:40 am

wongck wrote:You can't say those were wrong designs or decisions back then because they were good decisions back at those time.
May be the specifications of certain things changed along with time.
Take LaserDisc for example. It was a great media for movies, especially for Asia, was like the standard after VHS.
Then years pass and it was replaced by Digital technology for example VCD etc...
So standards do change and improve for the better.... but ST remained.


Don't agree. Especially for CD part. CDA existed for many years when STE arrived. So, 44000 Hz should be in list of freqs. I will study STE schematic to see how they get that 50066 Hz ...
BigDOS was not established in later 80-es, but still, they could do better than those large sectors for BGM partitions - it causes much overhead and slowness ...

Paolo
Captain Atari
Captain Atari
Posts: 463
Joined: Tue Sep 28, 2004 3:43 pm
Location: Italy

Re: Biggest flaw in Atari ST's design

Postby Paolo » Mon Mar 28, 2011 12:53 pm

but there was (and I thing there still is) the issue of paying patents for 44.000Hz
That is why you could buy an external cluock and audio equipment to have 44.000Hz

Of course, this can be argued as a bad business decision (or a cheap-o one)

User avatar
Desty
Atari God
Atari God
Posts: 1970
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2004 2:36 pm
Location: 53 21N 6 18W
Contact:

Re: Biggest flaw in Atari ST's design

Postby Desty » Mon Mar 28, 2011 2:08 pm

Paolo wrote:but there was (and I thing there still is) the issue of paying patents for 44.000Hz
That is why you could buy an external cluock and audio equipment to have 44.000Hz

Wait what? A frequency is patented??? Surely not 8O
tá'n poc ar buile!

User avatar
christos
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 2456
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 8:24 pm
Location: Greece
Contact:

Re: Biggest flaw in Atari ST's design

Postby christos » Mon Mar 28, 2011 2:16 pm

The frequency in itself probably not. A method to replay samples in 44KHz probably yes.

User avatar
wongck
Ultimate Atarian
Ultimate Atarian
Posts: 12789
Joined: Sat May 03, 2008 2:09 pm
Location: Far East
Contact:

Re: Biggest flaw in Atari ST's design

Postby wongck » Mon Mar 28, 2011 2:55 pm

SofiST wrote:
wongck wrote:You can't say those were wrong designs or decisions back then because they were good decisions back at those time.
May be the specifications of certain things changed along with time.
Take LaserDisc for example. It was a great media for movies, especially for Asia, was like the standard after VHS.
Then years pass and it was replaced by Digital technology for example VCD etc...
So standards do change and improve for the better.... but ST remained.


Don't agree. Especially for CD part. CDA existed for many years when STE arrived. So, 44000 Hz should be in list of freqs. I will study STE schematic to see how they get that 50066 Hz ...
BigDOS was not established in later 80-es, but still, they could do better than those large sectors for BGM partitions - it causes much overhead and slowness ...


CD is just an example... may be a bad one.... I am trying to say that standard will change to improve better....
Like graphics... EGA, CGA, VGA, SVGA, XGA etc etc
Important message is that standards do change and improve for the better.... but ST remained.
My Stuff: FB/Falcon CT63 CTPCI ATI RTL8139 USB 512MB 30GB HDD CF HxC_SD/ TT030 68882 4+32MB 520MB Nova/ 520STFM 4MB Tos206 SCSI
Shared SCSI Bus:ScsiLink ethernet, 9GB HDD,SD-reader @ http://phsw.atari.org
My Atari stuff for sale - click here for list

User avatar
wongck
Ultimate Atarian
Ultimate Atarian
Posts: 12789
Joined: Sat May 03, 2008 2:09 pm
Location: Far East
Contact:

Re: Biggest flaw in Atari ST's design

Postby wongck » Mon Mar 28, 2011 2:57 pm

christos wrote:The frequency in itself probably not. A method to replay samples in 44KHz probably yes.


In my Wintel, I can select encoding for 44KHz in almost all the audio formats. So I am violating patents?
How can that be.
My Stuff: FB/Falcon CT63 CTPCI ATI RTL8139 USB 512MB 30GB HDD CF HxC_SD/ TT030 68882 4+32MB 520MB Nova/ 520STFM 4MB Tos206 SCSI
Shared SCSI Bus:ScsiLink ethernet, 9GB HDD,SD-reader @ http://phsw.atari.org
My Atari stuff for sale - click here for list

User avatar
christos
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Fuji Shaped Bastard
Posts: 2456
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 8:24 pm
Location: Greece
Contact:

Re: Biggest flaw in Atari ST's design

Postby christos » Mon Mar 28, 2011 3:22 pm

h/w vs s/w. SAM too had the option for 44.1KHz. Also, i imagine that MS as well as the audio card manufacturer's could afford the patent.

SofiST
Atari Super Hero
Atari Super Hero
Posts: 591
Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2009 12:25 pm

Re: Biggest flaw in Atari ST's design

Postby SofiST » Mon Mar 28, 2011 3:31 pm

I looked schematic of STE. Audio DAC clock goes from GST chip. 50066 is certainly derivate of some system clock.
To get 'patented' :D 44100 Hz, extra clock generator would be needed - so some plus costs. Not patented, but used in digital audio.
Actually, what is more strange is that even in Falcon was no 44100 Hz support - therefore is external clock mod for it.
Digital analog conversion is in fact trivial - it was not patented for sure. What may be patented are details -filtering of analog output and similar - what is the most costing part in DMA audio. I made myself simple D-A converter for parallel port before STE era. It was only 1 chip and 8 resistors.


Social Media

     

Return to “Hardware”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests