Which AES to use with 4MB ST ?

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marcello
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Which AES to use with 4MB ST ?

Postby marcello » Tue Aug 27, 2019 4:19 pm

Hej Folks
I am preparing an update to my tiny st_mint distribution and I was wondering which AES I could use.
I have seen that Xaaes crashes on boot when you're not having NVDI installed (as noted in the Vanilla Mint install notes) and I don't have that.

So this leaves me the choice of:
- myAes
- AES 4.1 from latest Multitos ( from https://gtello.pagesperso-orange.fr/mint.htm)
- Geneva + Neo Desk

I have seen in the Geneva Page:
http://www4.pair.com/gribnif/downloads/geneva/
Can optionally use the MiNT multitasking kernel.

Are you using any of those on a 68000 ST ?

I am a unix passionate, so the end purpose is mostly having a Unix Shell in a gem window :)
STMint, try Unix on your 68000 Atari http://subsole.org/st_mint

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Re: Which AES to use with 4MB ST ?

Postby Gaiyan » Tue Aug 27, 2019 4:22 pm

I'd love to have Geneva as the AES. In fact, I had mixed results with my attempts with your quite excellent st_mint distro. I just haven't the time to crack at it more...
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Re: Which AES to use with 4MB ST ?

Postby ThorstenOtto » Tue Aug 27, 2019 4:57 pm

marcello wrote:Hej Folks
I have seen that Xaaes crashes on boot when you're not having NVDI installed


Did you actually try it? If thats true, then its definitely a bug in XaAES. Maybe just a matter of configuring the correct resolution, and/or fonts?
If that's really a bug and can be reproduced, you should open a ticket on the FreeMiNT site

- AES 4.1 from latest Multitos ( from https://gtello.pagesperso-orange.fr/mint.htm)


Argl. Thats not really an option.

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Re: Which AES to use with 4MB ST ?

Postby christos » Tue Aug 27, 2019 5:00 pm

ThorstenOtto wrote:
marcello wrote:
Argl. Thats not really an option.


Isn't it though? Anything else is far more memory hungry on a 4MB ST.

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Re: Which AES to use with 4MB ST ?

Postby ThorstenOtto » Tue Aug 27, 2019 5:20 pm

Yes, but it is also quite buggy, and missing a lot of functionality that modern applications would need.

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Re: Which AES to use with 4MB ST ?

Postby joska » Tue Aug 27, 2019 8:52 pm

ThorstenOtto wrote:If thats true, then its definitely a bug in XaAES.


It works, sort of, in mono. It also works with Nova-VDI and no NVDI. But it does not work in colour modes on plain ST/Falcon/TT VDI.
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Re: Which AES to use with 4MB ST ?

Postby joska » Tue Aug 27, 2019 8:57 pm

Gaiyan wrote:I'd love to have Geneva as the AES.


I have not been able to get Geneva to work properly with current MiNT kernels. IIRC MiNT 1.12 was the last version it worked properly with. Just waiting for Dan to release the sources, it would be a lot of fun to look into this.

marcello wrote:- AES 4.1 from latest Multitos


On a 4Mb ST this is the only realistic options. N.AES will also work well, but it can't be distributed.
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Re: Which AES to use with 4MB ST ?

Postby marcello » Wed Aug 28, 2019 4:00 pm

The issue with xaaaes crashing with the TOS Nvdi was discussed here in 2014 although things might have changed in five years :)
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=27040
I will check with a recent build if this isstilll crashes, and report on github.
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Re: Which AES to use with 4MB ST ?

Postby OL » Wed Aug 28, 2019 9:59 pm

marcello wrote:Hej Folks
I am preparing an update to my tiny st_mint distribution and I was wondering which AES I could use.
I have seen that Xaaes crashes on boot when you're not having NVDI installed (as noted in the Vanilla Mint install notes) and I don't have that.

So this leaves me the choice of:
- myAes
- AES 4.1 from latest Multitos ( from https://gtello.pagesperso-orange.fr/mint.htm)
- Geneva + Neo Desk

I have seen in the Geneva Page:
http://www4.pair.com/gribnif/downloads/geneva/
Can optionally use the MiNT multitasking kernel.

Are you using any of those on a 68000 ST ?

I am a unix passionate, so the end purpose is mostly having a Unix Shell in a gem window :)


Mint + AES + desktop in 4MB yes possible but will not stay too much memory

You can try extract configuration of MyAES from Hatari config, don't expect too much from this, but should work (not tested!)
http://myaes.lutece.net/telechargement/myhatari.zip
If need help on MyAES you can contact me.

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Re: Which AES to use with 4MB ST ?

Postby marcello » Fri Oct 04, 2019 2:24 pm

Xaaes from the latest freemint build is still crashing with my STE ( but same config works with Hatari !)
I submitted a bug report here:
https://github.com/freemint/freemint/issues/127
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Re: Which AES to use with 4MB ST ?

Postby marcello » Fri Oct 04, 2019 2:26 pm

@Olivier Just tryed out myAES on my STE in ST high resolution and 4MB RAM, it is slow and starving for memory, but otherwise working correctly whitout noticeable crashes.
STMint, try Unix on your 68000 Atari http://subsole.org/st_mint

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Re: Which AES to use with 4MB ST ?

Postby marcello » Fri Oct 04, 2019 10:04 pm

Now I've pointed at a fourth AES to think about, oAESis !
Available here ( binaries)
https://forum.atari-home.de/index.php?a ... tach=14166
and source
https://github.com/ocgis/oaesis
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Re: Which AES to use with 4MB ST ?

Postby jfl » Sat Oct 05, 2019 9:29 pm

joska wrote:
marcello wrote:- AES 4.1 from latest Multitos

On a 4Mb ST this is the only realistic options. N.AES will also work well, but it can't be distributed.

I don't think N.AES runs on a 68000. I remember I couldn't use it on my MegaST.
AES 4.1 is OK, but somewhat slow.
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Re: Which AES to use with 4MB ST ?

Postby Eero Tamminen » Sun Oct 06, 2019 2:16 pm

Personally I would just use nice desktop replacement like Thing in 4MB, instead of multitasking AES...

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Re: Which AES to use with 4MB ST ?

Postby OL » Sun Oct 06, 2019 3:56 pm

marcello wrote:@Olivier Just tryed out myAES on my STE in ST high resolution and 4MB RAM, it is slow and starving for memory, but otherwise working correctly whitout noticeable crashes.


Good to know!

Ok I checked and yes menu display slowly compare to Emutos, I not compiled with a small speed up option I'm going to check if it help or not and if not try to do better, there is no reason slow down here except access directly to VDI for Emutos, I don't know if it can explain something, not think it is link to Mint when redraw system is in supervisor mode so multitask is frozen.

Thanks for report

Olivier
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Re: Which AES to use with 4MB ST ?

Postby OL » Sun Oct 06, 2019 8:54 pm

OL wrote:
marcello wrote:@Olivier Just tryed out myAES on my STE in ST high resolution and 4MB RAM, it is slow and starving for memory, but otherwise working correctly whitout noticeable crashes.


Good to know!

Ok I checked and yes menu display slowly compare to Emutos, I not compiled with a small speed up option I'm going to check if it help or not and if not try to do better, there is no reason slow down here except access directly to VDI for Emutos, I don't know if it can explain something, not think it is link to Mint when redraw system is in supervisor mode so multitask is frozen.

Thanks for report

Olivier


I think difference of speed is more link to emudesk vs Teradesk, if I launch Teradesk menu display speed is quite same as under MyAES, while emudesk menu looks display far faster, so should have some internal speed up, probably not possible if desktop is not include un system perhap ?! I'm able to display faster but not as fast as emudesk.
Now there is a bug in this version fileselector not display :-(
OL

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Re: Which AES to use with 4MB ST ?

Postby OL » Mon Oct 07, 2019 10:34 pm

Hello

- file selector issue is fixed now, in previous version appl_getinfo report FSLX_selector support while it is not and Qed use fslx_xxx functions.
- A bit faster text redraw
- Now it is PureC 68000 version, it reduce size memory used.


Olivier

OL wrote:
OL wrote:
marcello wrote:@Olivier Just tryed out myAES on my STE in ST high resolution and 4MB RAM, it is slow and starving for memory, but otherwise working correctly whitout noticeable crashes.


Good to know!

Ok I checked and yes menu display slowly compare to Emutos, I not compiled with a small speed up option I'm going to check if it help or not and if not try to do better, there is no reason slow down here except access directly to VDI for Emutos, I don't know if it can explain something, not think it is link to Mint when redraw system is in supervisor mode so multitask is frozen.

Thanks for report

Olivier


I think difference of speed is more link to emudesk vs Teradesk, if I launch Teradesk menu display speed is quite same as under MyAES, while emudesk menu looks display far faster, so should have some internal speed up, probably not possible if desktop is not include un system perhap ?! I'm able to display faster but not as fast as emudesk.
Now there is a bug in this version fileselector not display :-(
OL

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Re: Which AES to use with 4MB ST ?

Postby marcello » Sun Oct 27, 2019 7:06 pm

So for the momment, I settled to use Xaaes which has some glitches, but work good enough for
me now. I could use sndplayer and play 2048 at the same time, multitasking FTW.
The graphic glitches are noticed are described in https://github.com/freemint/freemint/is ... -546721969.

If time allows, I'll also look at OAESIS and myAES.
STMint, try Unix on your 68000 Atari http://subsole.org/st_mint


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