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Archeology: The TOS before version 1.00

Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2018 8:31 pm
by ZeroG1972
A few months ago, I acquired a 520 ST (external power and disk, no ROM TOS). After research, it is one of the very first model (stamp at the back: August 1985, motherboard version : C070115 REV.2B).

Since I decided to go back to the original configuration (single-sided floppy disk SF354, monitor SM124 mono.). I easily found the TOS 1.00 US on floppy disk but I have a keyboard AZERTY (French). Fortunately, the KEYEDIT utility allowed me to remap the keys.

But, in August 1985, the TOS 1.00 was not available because it is dated November 20, 1985! With many difficulties I found an earlier TOS (.99?). I realized a small program in GFA Basic to compare the 2 TOS:

- TOS 1.00: GEMDOS version: 0.13, AES version: 1.20, user memory: 247.75 Kb
- TOS 0.99? : Date: May 29, 1985, GEMDOS version: 0.D, AES version: 1.01, User memory: 242.5 Kb

Since, I have several questions:
- Did there exist several different pre-versions of the TOS before TOS 1.00?
- Were these pre-releases localized (QWERTY <> AZERTY)?
- Who would own an image, or even a floppy disk of these pre-versions?

Thank you for your help!

Thierry (from France)

Re: Archeology: The TOS before version 1.00

Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 7:24 am
by Spectone
According to info in the wiki there are two 1.0 versions, a rom based and a disk based
https://temlib.org/AtariForumWiki/index ... _Atari_TOS
But there is no information on release dates and other information you have uncovered. Perhaps your 0.99 version is the 1.0 TOS disk only version. The ROM version has updated gemdos and AES.

This page has disk TOS 1.0 in American, German and English
http://www.avtandil.narod.ru/tose.html

Re: Archeology: The TOS before version 1.00

Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 8:44 am
by gstoll
ZeroG1972 wrote:- Did there exist several different pre-versions of the TOS before TOS 1.00?

I don't know how many versions form 1.00 are present, but there was one RAM disk version from 1985-06-20.

https://freemint.github.io/tos.hyp/de/tos_vers.html

Re: Archeology: The TOS before version 1.00

Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 10:09 am
by Frank B
Please archive it if it isn't available on the net.

Re: Archeology: The TOS before version 1.00

Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 10:45 am
by ZeroG1972
Frank B wrote:Please archive it if it isn't available on the net.


Precision: my Tos 0.99 is a disk image from https://web.archive.org/web/20060327013 ... mdisks.htm I do not have a physical diskette but I would like to find one!

Re: Archeology: The TOS before version 1.00

Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 1:32 pm
by ijor
It's an interesting issue. I'm not sure there is a definitive resource about those early TOS versions. Some sources indicate that the first shipped version on floppy disk, was already marked as 1.0. That seems to match an original bios listing. Other resources do mention version 0.99.

Re: Archeology: The TOS before version 1.00

Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 1:56 pm
by czietz
The version dated May 29, 1985 (from floppy disk image from the link above) has already 0x01 0x00 (version 1.00) in its header, not 0.99.

Re: Archeology: The TOS before version 1.00

Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 2:36 pm
by ZeroG1972
czietz wrote:The version dated May 29, 1985 (from floppy disk image from the link above) has already 0x01 0x00 (version 1.00) in its header, not 0.99.


Yes, I'm agree with you : webpage author said it's "TOS 0.99", but it seems to be pre-TOS 1.00 (debug version ?)

Indeed, when I read TOS country, value is incoherent (os_conf in OS HEADER cf. Atari Compendium) with pre-TOS 1.00, while TOS 1.00 return "USA"

Re: Archeology: The TOS before version 1.00

Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 7:46 pm
by tzok
This is the sysinfo screen of the mentioned TOS:
Image

Re: Archeology: The TOS before version 1.00

Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 11:24 pm
by 1st1
All of the early 260 ST, 520 ST and 520 ST+ were shipped to customers with boot ROM only and that early TOS on diskette. My uncle used to have such an early 520 ST+, and some weeks later he drove again to his ATARI dealer and got the ROMs swapped for free. The reason was, that the final TOS 1.00 still was not released as ATARI still was eleminating some bugs. I have one 260 ST which I have returned to that state, so it only can start when booting that initial boot TOS version, but the funny thing is, that after booting TOS, with some basic ACC like the original control panel, that ST gets quite unusable, because only so less RAM leftover.

Re: Archeology: The TOS before version 1.00

Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2018 12:58 am
by ijor
Even if it's marked as TOS 1.0 at the header, it is a different build than the other(s) TOS 1.0 loadable versions. I am too lazy to perform a comprehensive comparison, but obviously the date build is not the only difference. May be the "nick" 0.99 was used at some point, just a way to differentiate from later 1.0 builds.

Re: Archeology: The TOS before version 1.00

Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2018 11:01 pm
by ZeroG1972
1st1 wrote: but the funny thing is, that after booting TOS, with some basic ACC like the original control panel, that ST gets quite unusable, because only so less RAM leftover.

Yes, with only 245 ko available I can't load SYSINFO on my 520 ST, but GFA Basic Interpreter run perfect!

Re: Archeology: The TOS before version 1.00

Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2018 11:28 am
by Maartau
Hi there :) ,

Sadly, most of the files on https://web.archive.org/web/20060327013704/http://www.vintagecomputercafe.com/atarisystemdisks.htm are unavailable :( .

If somebody have them, could post them, ... :D ? I'm more than interested (and maybe not the only one too ?) 8).

:cheers:

- Olivier - (From France :wink: )

-> Merry Chistmas Atarians ! <-

Re: Archeology: The TOS before version 1.00

Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2018 1:19 pm
by frank.lukas

Re: Archeology: The TOS before version 1.00

Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2018 9:29 pm
by Maartau
:cheers: for the link frank.lukas.

By luck, is there any active link / download possible for the "Atari TOS .99 Boot Disk" ? (Maybe I bad checked :oops: )...

Thanks for all 8) .

Re: Archeology: The TOS before version 1.00

Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2018 11:15 pm
by czietz
Maartau wrote:By luck, is there any active link / download possible for the "Atari TOS .99 Boot Disk" ? (Maybe I bad checked :oops: )...


You mean this disk? https://web.archive.org/web/20150407043 ... OSBoot.zip

Re: Archeology: The TOS before version 1.00

Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 7:08 pm
by Maartau
czietz wrote:
Maartau wrote:By luck, is there any active link / download possible for the "Atari TOS .99 Boot Disk" ? (Maybe I bad checked :oops: )...


You mean this disk? https://web.archive.org/web/20150407043 ... OSBoot.zip

:cheers: czietz :D . That's it :thumbs: .

I understand where the "error" was : I have to check my PC's security tools :) .

Re: Archeology: The TOS before version 1.00

Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 11:30 pm
by rittwage
How do you go about booting an original TOS disk if you have TOS in ROM already? Is there a different set of boot ROMs for the motherboard that looks for this disk? Like the Amiga 1000 kickstart setup?

Re: Archeology: The TOS before version 1.00

Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 12:15 am
by ijor
rittwage wrote:How do you go about booting an original TOS disk if you have TOS in ROM already? Is there a different set of boot ROMs for the motherboard that looks for this disk? Like the Amiga 1000 kickstart setup?


You need a bootable TOS, or at least a RAM loadable TOS build. You can't run a TOS build that was designed for running on ROM.

TOS RAM versions were usually distributed on a bootable floppy. Boot code typically loads and runs a file "TOS.IMG". There are also a couple of utilities to load a TOS image, even from hard disk, after the machine was started.

Re: Archeology: The TOS before version 1.00

Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 7:11 am
by ZeroG1972
rittwage wrote:How do you go about booting an original TOS disk if you have TOS in ROM already?

Yes it's possible : For games compatibility, I boot my STe (TOS ROM 1.6) with TOS disk 1.00 and it work fine.

Re: Archeology: The TOS before version 1.00

Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 5:20 pm
by Frank B
ramtos.png
is the system output from sysinfo on the ramtos MSA disk.
It would be good to know the ROM date on each version of RAM TOS. I'd like to know when its the ST's birthday. I have a date of January 8th 1985 from somewhere but can't remember where it came from.