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RPMint Distribution

Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 6:03 am
by piku
HI all, I posted this on the mint list but I figured I could post it here as well....

I bought rpmint.com and wanted to announce that I wanted to fork/continue on with sparemint as a new name, RPMint. What I am planning to do is a slight divergence from sparemint but ultimately the same. The goals are:

* Auto builder which builds same packages for coldfire, 68020-60 and 68000
* Clean up rpm build dependencies so that autobuild can rebuild everything from scratch without screwing up the dependencies. The purpose being that if a static lib is updated, the entire system can be updated automatically. Backend will facilitate this and will bump up revisions prompting package updates.

* Revised init scripts which run a bit faster and leaner - up for debate
* Updated packages (many already completed just need to put it all together)
* GEM/CLI package installer/updater

* Comprehensive website (will be postgresql/c#/mvc running on mono/linux). Will allow package upload, community approval, deployment to auto build servers, searching by file, package info, historical package archive, etc. The autobuilder will also be a C# app that will monitor and control via ssh.

* For experienced users or for others to build on... Primary focus on unix cli tools and ports - easymint and other products should take RPMint work and build on it. RPMint is JUST the distro, not an installer or kernel maintenance tools. Kernel will not be a package at all. RPMint is just intended to maintain what is on the ext2 partition traditionally so no xaaes, no kernel, etc.

* RPMint will lift and otherwise reuse community work whenever possible. Vincent Riviere's patches, Alan's work with gentoo, etc.

I did work on all this before but I lost interest due to a lack of control over sparemint and no interest from sparemint people. Now I have no excuses so we'll see what I can do with it. It's vaporware at the moment but I wanted to put this out there to allow people to comment and offer opinions on how things should go. Ultimately I do not plan to exercise a lot of control over this but just wanted a platform with which to share the ports I've done.. and I prefer RPM.

Build farm is an M5484LITE board for coldfire, and two aranym instances for 68000 and 68020-60. Ssh access provided to anyone who wants to work on it, maintain or participate... Or even build their own software. 68000 is no longer really a waste of time due to MonSTer board and MiST if anyone ever figures out the block io issues on that.

I probably won't post back here much about it, other than to answer any questions or comment on what people may reply to in this thread. In the early days before there is an RPMint website, and probably thereafter for the more random stuff, I will post musings about my work here http://atari-source.org/ This site hasn't been updated in a long time but it seems like a good fit. If you want to see how the project is coming along just check that out. Otherwise, when the website is up and running and I feel the project is usable I'll post back here. I'm eager to hear any comments, suggestions or feedback as I will try to steer this in a way that works for everyone.

Re: RPMint Distribution

Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 10:48 pm
by Faucon2001
Sorry, I didn’t see this post before.
I am a great supporter of Easymint and updated rpm are more than welcome.
Great initiative! I hope it will come true.
Any news since?

Re: RPMint Distribution

Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 5:22 am
by stormy
This sounds amazing! I hope you pull it off and perhaps get a team of volunteers to help out.

Re: RPMint Distribution

Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 6:51 am
by jfl
Late to the party but I also wish to extend my support for this project. I hope you'll find the time and motivation to pull it through.

Re: RPMint Distribution

Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 12:07 am
by piku
I was/am. I am having a ton of system and stability problems again ;)

Re: RPMint Distribution

Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 2:31 am
by epoch32
piku wrote:I was/am. I am having a ton of system and stability problems again ;)


Will this be a drop in for sparemint users? Like how to directly upgrade from it? Plus is it still being worked on?

Re: RPMint Distribution

Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2019 4:58 pm
by piku
So sadly this is vaporware at this point as I'm sure you've all noticed. I've been meaning to work on this but I keep having hardware issues. Firebee is dead which I thought would be no problem as I have a coldfire dev board. Sadly the 64MB in the coldfire dev board causes some out of memory conditions on some packages when building. I also could not find a reliable gcc. All of the available gcc's would get internal compiler errors in random spots in big packages. Now with the new gcc 7.4.x I don't have this problem so I should be able to in theory do some of this work on aranym but that doesn't really help the coldfire systems. All excuses I know but I hope to work this out and make progress on this more consistently than none at all ;)

Re: RPMint Distribution

Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2019 11:00 pm
by wongck
Is building the target package on actual platform itself much better than just using the -m68000 or -mcpu=5475 ?

OT: is that -m68020-60 still available ... I read from Mintlist that there are some changes.. :?:

Re: RPMint Distribution

Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2019 2:24 am
by piku
RPM makes it difficult to cross build RPM's. You can do it but it's a bit of a pain. I've always liked the idea of building the packages on the target anyway though. The situation isn't as bad as it seems. On my build machines I use ccache and distcc. So much of the source is cross compiled with distcc anyway and ccache caches built objects so tweaking the packages goes quickly. It's actually pretty ideal at the end of the day.

Re: RPMint Distribution

Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2019 11:16 am
by neanderthal
Interesting project since I use a old easymint for network on a ownmade driver.
The init part is a bit slow on a standard falcon actually,have even been thinking about ways to get around that.
And a way to get into GEM without passing through a login process would be nice,yes I run gem for old stuff and cause of that as root.
I actually like E.smith:s idea about mint being more of background unixy thing with one gem prog running.

About RPM,is there any list somewhere to know versions of programs installed? (no not used to RPM)

Re: RPMint Distribution

Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2019 12:04 pm
by piku
Hi you can use rpm -qa to get a list of all packages on your system. You can pipe to grep to isolate a particular one. rpm -qa|grep rpm will show you the version of rpm installed. The other useful ones are rpm -ql pkgname will show you what files belong to a package and rpm -qf /file/name will show you what package a file belongs to. Regarding init, it is something I wanted to take on as well but building the base system is top priority right now.

Re: RPMint Distribution

Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:46 pm
by wongck
neanderthal wrote:Interesting project since I use a old easymint for network on a ownmade driver.
The init part is a bit slow on a standard falcon actually,have even been thinking about ways to get around that.
And a way to get into GEM without passing through a login process would be nice,yes I run gem for old stuff and cause of that as root.
I actually like E.smith:s idea about mint being more of background unixy thing with one gem prog running.


I do use INIT sometimes especially for my DHCP, and it is slower than just running ifconfig/route directly in the CNF file.

Re: RPMint Distribution

Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2019 6:29 pm
by piku
You could actually install all of the required stuff you want to execute in the mint.cnf but it seems a little... clumsy to me. I'd like some sort of clever but otherwise highly efficient init. The shell scripts are just too slow.

Re: RPMint Distribution

Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2019 8:28 pm
by stormy
We need some kind of central repository for all software like Linux. This kind of system would ignite atari development again I am sure. A unified listing where you can see all the software in categories.

Re: RPMint Distribution

Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2019 11:40 pm
by wongck
mzry wrote:We need some kind of central repository for all software like Linux. This kind of system would ignite atari development again I am sure. A unified listing where you can see all the software in categories.

Yes I really like the Sparemint webpage where I can easily search, download Mint apps & even automatic updates.
So I am really glad that Mark is re-booting it.

Re: RPMint Distribution

Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:28 pm
by susher
init (8) will be slower than using the config file as it runs bash (or whichever shell /bin/sh is) which then interprets a shell script to run the programs. It then, after this complete successfully, starts up the getty(8) programs on the console (and any other ports you wish to have logins on), or any other program in the ttytab configuration file, re-spawning them if they exit.

This is a direct re-implementation of the BSD 4.3/SunOS 4.1.x init(8) system, or as close as MiNT in 1993/4 would allow.

Re: RPMint Distribution

Posted: Wed Mar 13, 2019 12:45 am
by wongck
susher wrote:init (8) will be slower than using the config file as it runs bash (or whichever shell /bin/sh is) which then interprets a shell script to run the programs. It then, after this complete successfully, starts up the getty(8) programs on the console (and any other ports you wish to have logins on), or any other program in the ttytab configuration file, re-spawning them if they exit.


Wow... thanks for the explanation. I'm getting much older...... that certainly jolted my memory.
I had my configuration file setup to run NAES, MyAES or XaAES and even different MINT versions XaAES (I only have one /etc folder for all version).
I am back to using the CNF method for so long now that I forgot. :lol:

Re: RPMint Distribution

Posted: Wed Mar 13, 2019 6:27 pm
by susher
Slightly off topic... Here's my original MiNTOS web page. (My TT is alive again.) https://www.earth.ox.ac.uk/~steve/mintos.html

Re: RPMint Distribution

Posted: Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:02 pm
by wongck
susher wrote:My TT is alive again.

Great !!! Have fun !! :cheers:

Re: RPMint Distribution

Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 1:54 pm
by joska
piku wrote:You could actually install all of the required stuff you want to execute in the mint.cnf but it seems a little... clumsy to me.


Maybe clumsy, but it rarely has to be touched and speeds up booting a lot. It also simplifies things since you only need to run the things you actually need.

Re: RPMint Distribution

Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:27 pm
by susher
joska wrote:
piku wrote:You could actually install all of the required stuff you want to execute in the mint.cnf but it seems a little... clumsy to me.


Maybe clumsy, but it rarely has to be touched and speeds up booting a lot. It also simplifies things since you only need to run the things you actually need.


You can do the same by editing the rc scripts.

Re: RPMint Distribution

Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:02 pm
by joska
susher wrote:You can do the same by editing the rc scripts.


Yes, but then you still have the overhead of spawning shells and parsing configuration files in shell scripts.

Re: RPMint Distribution

Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:17 pm
by arf
susher wrote:Slightly off topic... Here's my original MiNTOS web page. (My TT is alive again.) https://www.earth.ox.ac.uk/~steve/mintos.html


Nice stuff, but I can’t download the FTP links – these are dead, e.g. ftp://ftp.earth.ox.ac.uk/pub/mintos/mnts141b.tgz

Re: RPMint Distribution

Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:41 pm
by susher
Ah, I see the permissions on the files in the ftp.earth.ox.ac.uk anonymous FTP site had their permissions too strict (due to a security lock-down on all accounts last year). Thanks for pointing this out. Everything's available again now!

Have a look in ftp://ftp.earth.ox.ac.uk/pub/mintos/

Re: RPMint Distribution

Posted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:42 pm
by wongck
susher wrote:init (8) will be slower than using the config file as it runs bash (or whichever shell /bin/sh is) which then interprets a shell script to run the programs. It then, after this complete successfully, starts up the getty(8) programs on the console (and any other ports you wish to have logins on), or any other program in the ttytab configuration file, re-spawning them if they exit.


For those who wants INIT to run the AES instead of the console, you can look up my Q&D Mint installation guide, specifically chapter 9 item# 6.
Since the pages are not update for nearly 10 years, the links on them may be dead.