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TOS 3.1 desktop for the ST

Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 8:01 pm
by Frank B
Hi. I'm sure I posted an attachment of the TT desktop to the forum as a prg file for general STs.
I'm looking to see if I can get it working on my ST but I can't find it. If someone has it, can they please upload it?

Re: TOS 3.1 desktop for the ST

Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 8:40 pm
by Atarieterno
TOS 3.1 desktop for the ST?
8O

Re: TOS 3.1 desktop for the ST

Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 9:08 pm
by Frank B
Yes. As an app. I definitely uploaded it to the forum.

Re: TOS 3.1 desktop for the ST

Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:47 pm
by Atarieterno
Interesting application.
Please share it again if you find it.
Greetings.

Re: TOS 3.1 desktop for the ST

Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:57 pm
by troed
(And I definitely ran a software TOS 3.x desktop on my main ST back in the day)

Re: TOS 3.1 desktop for the ST

Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 1:03 am
by Foxie
What are the differences between 3.x and 2.x on the desktop? I was under the impression they were quite closely related. Never owned a TT.

I tried to get 3.x working in Hatari, but it just won't boot to the desktop without bombing. But booting 2.06 on a floppy does actually seem to work and exposes the additional resolutions in preferences.

Re: TOS 3.1 desktop for the ST

Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 9:35 am
by mikro
2.0x and 3.0x are basically identical, when it comes to the desktop. Only hardware support differs (ACSI vs SCSI for instance). And I'd assume 3.0x is compiled for 030.

Re: TOS 3.1 desktop for the ST

Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 9:54 am
by troed
I never had a TT back in the day and had no official 3.x to compare to, but the reason we ran a software "TOS 3" was indeed that it offered more features. It's been "a few" years but I would expect it to have been something visible. Filled window movement, icons etc. I'm also sure this wasn't a branded GEM replacement, it was spread on the "scene" BBS-systems as "TOS 3".

(Yes, I know this doesn't differ between official TOS 3.x and TOS 2.x)

Unfortunately exactly 0% of my own disk collection has survived to this day.

Re: TOS 3.1 desktop for the ST

Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 10:41 am
by mOdmate
BMTos 2.06 works like a charm on my ST: https://demozoo.org/productions/168928/

Re: TOS 3.1 desktop for the ST

Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:17 pm
by DarkLord
AFAIK, TOS v3.06 on my Pak equipped STacy is a 32 bit OS so I'm assuming
this version would be as well.

Re: TOS 3.1 desktop for the ST

Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:12 pm
by AdamK
About BMTos, is there any changelog?

Re: TOS 3.1 desktop for the ST

Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 3:28 pm
by shoggoth
The TOS4 AES/Desktop works on plain STs as well (there's a binary in the leaked/incomplete TOS source code on Lonnys site IIRC).

NEWDESK.PRG

Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:48 pm
by 1st1
The software is called "NEWDESK.PRG".

It was given to registered ATARI developpers in about 1990 under NDA and only on request, just when the TT was released. So developpers could test the new desktop, AES 3.0 and so on with their applications. It was at least available in english, german and french but it requires a lot of RAM, on a 1/2 MB machine it's not sensefull to use. My 4 MB STacy runs the german version, having the new desktop without opening the complicate laptop is nice... But it's not totally bug free, at least warmboot with control+alternate+delete hangs up sometimes.

It has to be placed in the AUTO folder as the last application. In 199x I also tested it successfully in MultiTOS and KGMD.

https://ptonthat.fr/la-carte-monster/
http://www.verycomputer.com/10_d274330148704110_1.htm
http://www.jackintosh-forum.com/viewtop ... f=15&t=973
https://www.atariarchives.org/cfn/12/05/03/0078.php
http://www.yaronet.com/topics/102645-bureau-alternatif

I have heared, that in the beginning, before TOS 3.x and the TT came, newdesk.prg was also used to do/test the translation of the desktop into the different languages imn the national ATARI offices. The result of sysinfo with my version is quite strange...

Re: TOS 3.1 desktop for the ST

Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:19 pm
by 1st1
Screenshot

newdesk1.jpg
newdesk2.jpg
newdesk3.jpg
newdesk4.jpg
newdesk5.jpg

Re: TOS 3.1 desktop for the ST

Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 8:01 pm
by Frank B
Yes. That's the one. I uploaded it to this forum as an attachment but can't find it.
Can you attach it please.

Never mind... found it!!
TOS.31.zip

Re: TOS 3.1 desktop for the ST

Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:15 pm
by Eero Tamminen
Foxie wrote:I tried to get 3.x working in Hatari, but it just won't boot to the desktop without bombing.


Is it TOS v3.06, or some earlier 3.x version? If former, maybe you had corrupted *.INF file in your boot drive?

(TOS 3.06 boots/works fine in Hatari Mercurial version, and has worked fine in every Hatari release since TT support was originally added.)

Re: TOS 3.1 desktop for the ST

Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 11:51 pm
by fenarinarsa
Frank your version is slightly different.

I did have this NEWDESK.PRG (named TT_DESK.PRG) on my boot disk back then, I worked a lot with it on my STE with 2.5MB of RAM.
Some menus looks different, for instance the preference dialog show the actual resolutions (320x200 / 640x200...) when on your version it shows "ST LOW / ST MID..." etc.

My version is also smaller (83k instead of 177k) and in French.

I always thought it was extracted from TOS 2.05 but now that you mention it, it says "ST/TT" when loading. It's the "Version 1.0 19, June 1990" version like on 1st1's screenshots.

Re: TOS 3.1 desktop for the ST

Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 7:42 am
by Frank B
Interesting. I also have a dev beta of multitos which I've never seen on line. It has the older st style windows for the AES. I'll attach it tonight.

Re: TOS 3.1 desktop for the ST

Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:52 am
by Foxie
Eero Tamminen wrote:Is it TOS v3.06, or some earlier 3.x version? If former, maybe you had corrupted *.INF file in your boot drive?


It should be 3.06 UK, but I downloaded it from who knows where so it could be corrupt. MD5 is 2a8e39c60317b921eabd7e25b5d74395

I get two bombs with the bee pointer visible (but still a white background - no sign of the desktop yet). The pointer can move around, but the bombs stay on-screen. I tested without a hard drive - just a blank floppy image.

I'm using Hatari 2.0.0, but it also did a similar thing under an older version with the same TOS image. In some ways, I have less luck with 2.0.0 than older versions. The older version could boot EmuTOS in TT mode, but the new one cannot (unless I disable the hard drive - then it works).

Re: TOS 3.1 desktop for the ST

Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:38 pm
by Foxie
Frank B wrote:Never mind... found it!!TOS.31.zip


I just tested this by copying it onto a boot floppy image. Then booting Hatari with TOS 3.06. This works fine. So whatever is stopping TOS 3.06 from booting to the desktop happens very late in the boot process.

Re: TOS 3.1 desktop for the ST

Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 10:08 pm
by Eero Tamminen
Foxie wrote:
Eero Tamminen wrote:Is it TOS v3.06, or some earlier 3.x version? If former, maybe you had corrupted *.INF file in your boot drive?


It should be 3.06 UK, but I downloaded it from who knows where so it could be corrupt. MD5 is 2a8e39c60317b921eabd7e25b5d74395


Mine has different MD5 checksum:

Code: Select all

dd1010ec566efbd71047d6c4919feba5  tos306uk.img

Re: TOS 3.1 desktop for the ST

Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 3:16 am
by Foxie
Eero Tamminen wrote:Mine has different MD5 checksum:

Code: Select all

dd1010ec566efbd71047d6c4919feba5  tos306uk.img


Curious. Do you remember where you downloaded it from?

Re: TOS 3.1 desktop for the ST

Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:42 pm
by Eero Tamminen
Sorry, no. It was over a decade ago when I added some minor TT features to Hatari (after Thomas had added the initial TT & TOS v3 support to Hatari).