Geneva

All about the serious stuff.

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viking272
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Re: Geneva

Postby viking272 » Tue May 21, 2013 8:57 am

Dan Wilga has sadly reported that his TT hard disk has died suddenly before he managed to build a new environment in the emulator.
He said it spins up, but then stops a few seconds later, presumably because the heads are stuck. He'll try and fix the disk via the "freezer method"!

He does have a backup of the source, but it doesn't include the compiler (Pure C) or the project file. So extra work is needed to get it into a compile-able state.
Fingers crossed 8O

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Re: Geneva

Postby TheNameOfTheGame » Tue May 21, 2013 5:54 pm

Damn that sucks. Hopefully he gets it running long enough make a backup image.

Sometimes when the heads stick, you can gently tap on the top casing of the hard drive with the handle side of a screwdriver to get them loose and working.

If he can get the heads working temporarily, I would strongly recommend he take that drive out of the TT and put it in a Linux box to make a full "dd" type image.

Once he has an viable image, all manner of options open up.

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Re: Geneva

Postby viking272 » Tue May 21, 2013 6:06 pm

Thanks for that, I'll pass the info on.

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Re: Geneva

Postby TheNameOfTheGame » Tue May 21, 2013 9:00 pm

If you could, please pass this link along to Dan, but I think he already knows about it since he knows about the freezing.

http://www.hddrecovery.com.au/PDF/200ways.pdf

This is 200 ways to revive a hard drive.

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Re: Geneva

Postby viking272 » Tue May 21, 2013 9:42 pm

TheNameOfTheGame wrote:This is 200 ways to revive a hard drive.


Thanks, that looks really useful. I've passed it on to Dan just now.

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Re: Geneva

Postby MetalCruncher » Sun Jun 02, 2013 8:22 pm

It's been some month, since I last visited this site, so I completely missed this thread.
It sounds nice, if Geneva really will be released in a new version.

It seems, that most "atarians" left use their Atari as a "ping-pong-plus-machine
(judged on the size of game and ST-low-only sections here and elsewhere).
However, for those who actually like the GEM/Atari-OS, Geneva is of great
benefit, as it offers "multitasking" on small systems, as well as it do run on STEEM
and Hatari. All other "multiAESes" are dependent on MINT, which really only functions
on Aranym or a real Atari.

Personally I never use any of my Ataris, as the emulators run just fine and much faster,
and several can run simultaneously sharing file-system, which is very convenient for
coding, compiling and testing.

I don't know, if there're many left, who are actually trying to code some nice GEM-
applications (except me - I'm too lazy to count); but if so, the full Genava manual
should contain usefull information. I would appreciate a scan!

What is the mentioned devlopment kit? I never use Neodesk, as I'm used to the simple
Teradeask, which btw. have some serious bugs running on STEEM/Hatari.

The recently free version of Thing seems to run but completely malfunctions on Genava.

STEEM and Hatari have some bugs themselves: The extended video-modes will crash the
emulater, and they implement folder-mapped drives incorrect, which causes desktops to
miss the parent folders.

Off topic but about bugs: Word processing is one of the obvious uses of an old Atari.
Except for the more advanced and complicated using special file-formats and sometimes
also special fonts, there is not a single (asccii) editor using GDOS, that works correct.
That includes QED, which is often praised of members here!: They all get "confused" by
superproportional fonts. QEDs curser will jump 64 pixels or so per character, and it can't
be passed files running on Genava. If anybody still maintain QED, besides a study of
correct handling of proportional fonts a study of the programming section of the Genava
manual is certainly needed!

The advanced ascii-editor "Edith - the text-editress", which was released as freeware
some years ago is btw. the best for proportional fonts, it doesn't put superproportional
fonts correctly on screen, but it's both readable and editable, and it runs fine on Geneva!

It seems a common mistake the way a program loads its resources. If the name is written
in small, it will work fine on a MINT system like Aranym+MINT+XAaes AND on a old real
Atari, as GEMDOS will simply capitalize filenames. Unfortunately hacking the executable
may not help, as the way the program investigates its own environment is wrong.
Also a classic bug is the resizing of windows. It's not just the programmer but even the
(C-)compilers, that make wrong assumptions: Already in 1985 in the official Atari GEM
programming guidelines it is stated: In AES-messages concerning window coordinates
you MAY NOT make assumptions of any constants! Eventhough "singleTOS" cannot move
AND resize a window or resize AND move, they had already foreseen more advanced AESes
than the build-in plus the fact, that software other than the OS may actually move/resize
a window of any application, so, though nobody ever made one, a taskbar-like accessory
could have manipulated windows in "singleTOS", just as we appreciate in a "full" "multiTOS".

Spreading the Geneva manual (and the use of Geneva for testing) may help. Of course if
the programmer never bothered with reading the guidelines of '85...
Yet, there are from time to time still comming brand new software, and still the same
bugs are repeated after 33 years! On the other hand, a TRUELY GEM-correct application
from 1985 will actually run on Geneva.
Cubase, (Mega)ST(e)(fm), TT, Falcon, Jaguar, MiST.

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Re: Geneva

Postby Eero Tamminen » Sun Jun 02, 2013 8:48 pm

MetalCruncher wrote:STEEM and Hatari have some bugs themselves: The extended video-modes will crash the
emulater, and they implement folder-mapped drives incorrect, which causes desktops to
miss the parent folders.


If you've found bugs in them, please report them so that they can be fixed. Hatari bugs should be reported to the Hatari forum area, not Geneva. :-)

(Even better would be to report them on hatari-devel mailing list as all Hatari developers read that.)

MetalCruncher wrote:The advanced ascii-editor "Edith - the text-editress", which was released as freeware
some years ago is btw. the best for proportional fonts, it doesn't put superproportional
fonts correctly on screen, but it's both readable and editable, and it runs fine on Geneva!


Where one can get Edith?

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Re: Geneva

Postby MetalCruncher » Sun Jun 02, 2013 9:30 pm

Last first: I just googled and found this: http://www.zfc.nl/

Are there actually anybody maintaining STEEM and Hatari??? It's the same
bugs in both, hence also im the Steven Segall Hacks and also in a french
cleaned-up-version!

And the bugs really jumps out, when Geneva is used! :D
Cubase, (Mega)ST(e)(fm), TT, Falcon, Jaguar, MiST.

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Re: Geneva

Postby Cyprian » Sun Jun 02, 2013 9:52 pm

MetalCruncher wrote:Are there actually anybody maintaining STEEM and Hatari

yes, both are still actively developed.

Eero is responsible for Hatari :) viewforum.php?f=51
regarding Steem - Steven Seagal viewforum.php?f=5
Jaugar / TT030 / Mega STe / 800 XL / 1040 STe / Falcon030 / 65 XE / 520 STm / SM124 / SC1435
SDrive / PAK68/3 / CosmosEx / SatanDisk / UltraSatan / USB Floppy Drive Emulator / Eiffel / SIO2PC / Crazy Dots / PAM Net
Hatari / Steem SSE / Aranym / Saint
http://260ste.appspot.com/

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Re: Geneva

Postby viking272 » Fri Jun 14, 2013 12:40 am

Hi all

I've just emailed Dan to see if he managed to make any progress with his disk issues.

Will let you know when there is a response.

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Re: Geneva

Postby Eero Tamminen » Sat Jun 15, 2013 7:22 am

Cyprian wrote:
MetalCruncher wrote:Are there actually anybody maintaining STEEM and Hatari

yes, both are still actively developed.


New Hatari release is near with boatload of new stuff & fixes:
http://hg.tuxfamily.org/mercurialroot/h ... -notes.txt

These features are used e.g. to optimize Doom I/II for Atari Falcon & debug problems with it:
viewtopic.php?f=68&t=24561

Cyprian wrote:Eero is responsible for Hatari :) viewforum.php?f=51


Nicolas is the current main Hatari maintainer. Laurent is looking mostly after Falcon & DSP emulation and I after debugger/profiler & GEMDOS emulation. While I've been recently most active here because I had lots of free time during winter (but not anymore), the others are here too.

None of us has Windows or OSX, so one could say that while Hatari is very actively maintained, its Windows/OSX builds aren't. Fixing Windows/OSX bugs depends on 3rd party contributions.

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Re: Geneva

Postby viking272 » Mon Jun 24, 2013 1:21 pm

viking272 wrote:I've just emailed Dan to see if he managed to make any progress with his disk issues.

Will let you know when there is a response.


Just as a way of an update, I've not heard anything from Dan Wilga as yet. Hopefully soon...

Simon

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Re: Geneva

Postby busybee » Sat Aug 24, 2013 5:50 pm

viking272 wrote:Hi all

Dan Wilga replied this afternoon. He's had some time constraints of late but has managed to put together his TT and fire it up, locating the all important source code.
He's going to transfer the files tonight and build the new versions in an emulator. [no timescales defined]

He's also not adverse to having a maintainer of the Geneva code but wanted to gauge the response from his donation-ware release first.

This is all Dan said, so all in all quite positive.

Simon


I'll be happy to donate!

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Re: Geneva

Postby delvis » Mon Sep 16, 2013 3:10 am

Yes that would be a good thing. Let us know when we can donate.
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Re: Geneva

Postby viking272 » Thu Sep 19, 2013 10:02 pm

Been trying to get an update from Dan Wilga, whilst not being too pushy, but nothing for many months now. :(

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Re: Geneva

Postby viking272 » Sun Jan 19, 2014 9:45 pm

Hi all,

My emails from Dan Wilga have gone un-answered (since he had a hard disk crash), but will send another one off tonight.

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Re: Geneva

Postby TheNameOfTheGame » Sun Jan 19, 2014 10:14 pm

Damn shame about the hard drive crash. Was looking forward to the updated release. :(

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Re: Geneva

Postby viking272 » Sun Jan 19, 2014 10:20 pm

TheNameOfTheGame wrote:Damn shame about the hard drive crash. Was looking forward to the updated release. :(

It is, but he had a backup of the source and was going to try re-creating the project from within Hatari.
Hopefully he had success, but it's been quite some time since our last emails (June 2013 I think) :cry:

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Re: Geneva

Postby lp » Mon Jan 20, 2014 9:49 am

I got a reply from Dan around Oct 2, 2013 regarding an inquiry I made about the NeoDesk icon .NIC file format. See topic Convert .NIC to .RSC. I did not post his reply because on the second exchange he did not answer when I asked if I could post his reply. I thought it best to ask for some reason.

At the time I was unaware that he was trying to rescue his sources as I missed this thread entirely until this week. Anyway, Dan wrote back that the file format is not documented and that he would have to study the code to figure them out. He said its complicated and they are compressed. He left it open ended as I didn't know if he was going to study the code or not. That was the last mail I received.

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Re: Geneva

Postby viking272 » Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:22 am

lp wrote:That was the last mail I received.


I see, so he has been replying which is good. I did send an email yesterday, just asking how things were with the dev environment etc, so hopefully he'll just give a brief reply, but nothing so far.

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Re: Geneva

Postby Dal » Thu Sep 10, 2015 3:58 pm

Has anyone heard from Dan at all?
Mega"SST" 12, MegaSTE, STE: Desktopper case, IDE interface, UltraSatan (8GB + 512Mb) + HXC floppy emulator. Plus some STE's/STFM's

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Re: Geneva

Postby viking272 » Thu Sep 10, 2015 4:53 pm

I sent him about 3 emails last year but no reply, and it was over two years ago since his last reply.

I've sent him another email today, to see what happened to his TT, the hard disk that crashed and whether he got the code to recompile elsewhere.

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Re: Geneva

Postby Dal » Thu Sep 10, 2015 6:00 pm

Good Luck...
Mega"SST" 12, MegaSTE, STE: Desktopper case, IDE interface, UltraSatan (8GB + 512Mb) + HXC floppy emulator. Plus some STE's/STFM's

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Re: Geneva

Postby dhedberg » Thu Sep 10, 2015 6:02 pm

Dal wrote:Has anyone heard from Dan at all?

He replied to me in a different matter 2 weeks ago, so alive he is! ;-)
Daniel, New Beat - http://newbeat.atari.org. Like demos? Have a look at our new Falcon030 demo MORE.

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Re: Geneva

Postby jamesarm97 » Mon Nov 09, 2015 9:30 pm

I have an issue with my TT after trying to update NVDI to the latest (v5). Now I get the new resolution picker window (use to just be text based) and after I pick the resolution I see the other stuff in my AUTO folder load (sound program, mouse accel, etc) then GENEVA tries to load and it complains about VDI not being loaded or present. I get nothing after that. I tried disabling Geneva and I get nothing on my screen after the last driver loaded. I get key clicks and stuff but nothing on my CrazyDots output but what loaded last. I guess the latest NVDI is't compatible with something. Any thoughts?


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