Newsdee wrote:The XRGB Framemeister is hands down the best upscaler I've used. It's pricey but it has taken absolutely everything that I threw at it. Yes, it has one to two frames of lag but they are negligible compared to emulators. The Super NT has a few upscaling modes to allow the user to choose - either use framebuffers (taking some minor lag) or a raw direct mode without any upscaling.
Yep, they call this setting “Buffer Mode” and it has three options:
1) Zero Delay: the emulated/simulated SNES is slowed form 60.098Hz to 60Hz, a small loss in accuracy (the game loses 1 second each 10 minutes) traded for a perfect video timing
2) Single Buffer: the emulated/simulated SNES runs at 60.098Hz, but produces a 60Hz video output with some screen tearing
3) Fully Buffered: the emulated/simulated SNES runs at 60.098Hz, but produces a 60Hz video output without tearing, but once in a while a full frame is dropped
Newsdee wrote:Now, the problem with line doublers is that they don't do anything to adjust the video frequency, which is usually the Achilles' heel of many displays. The XRGB will output a stead 60hz video no matter what you give it. So the OSSC woudl be pretty useless for a MiST for instance. I suppose it is still as linedoubler for original systems though, and is better than other options (such as GBS 8220).
Sorgelig wrote:You are missing one important point: it's HDMI output. In VGA you still can find very tolerant displays able to show 50Hz and even 48Hz(ZX, BK0011M, Vector06C, etc). In HDMI world i even not sure if such tolerant displays exist.
It doesn't matter what is your primary concern, if you want a lag free scan doubler or not. If you cannot use such non-standard HDMI output with your TV/Display, then it's completely useless. And chances to get a non-working solution with OSSC is very high if you intend to use it with retro core with non-strictly standard TV output.
I’m not missing anything, I know perfectly that OSSC can have sync problems with some displays, producing nonstandard HDMI timings. I’m affirming that it’s a non-cost-effective, non-practical tool for enthusiast hobbyists pursuing a specific feature, regardless of all possible problems. We are talking about first-world problems. I mean, whatever the hobby, when you get in the enthusiast/fanatical realm, it’s full of esoteric/extreme products not suitable for the general audience. The first hobby that comes in my mind is the audiophile world where an OSSC could be compared to a non-oversampling DAC (please take this example with a grain of salt), for people that want a DAC with less features (it doesn’t oversample like any good sounding DAC), because they want to apply esoteric oversampling algorithms with their software players. Another hobby could be motorcycling, where someone prefers old school bikes, without any electronic driving assistance, because they feel raw and brutal, despite being unpractical and dangerous. Do we want to talk about cycling where someone prefers fixed-gear bikes? Everyone buying OSSC should know that it can have sync problems and this should be a risk willingly assumed in order to get the “purest, most faithful and lagless timings” with the right display. I think, since the more safe XRBG mini already exists, it’s good to be able to have an hard-core alternative. To each one his own.
Sorgelig wrote:As i've told above, a simple scandoubler inside the core can do the same lag-free up-scaling. Someone can try to make it with HDMI output. It's not my style.
The whole point of HDMI output on MiSTer is to make a plug-n-play system, not another quest of finding a compatible monitors.
P.S.: VIP scaler can do framebuffer-less scaling which means it can be used for lag-free upscaling. Some systems can have a special version of scaler if system provides guaranteed standard 50/60 fps. This option need to be explored and suitable for cores with dedicated developers as it require more tight integration and special tweaks.
Having a plug-n-play system is a sensible approach for sure.
Ideally a system providing all possible options could provide an “original frequency zero delay” mode, similar to OSSC, with possible incompatibilities and three other modes similar to the Super NT’s ones. The more choices the better… anyway we are talking about open source hobby projects where anyone (in MiSTer case anyone has a specific name ) is donating its spare time, so specific choices have to be taken.