Screen Flip? Rotate Screen?

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digitron
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Screen Flip? Rotate Screen?

Postby digitron » Sat Jul 27, 2019 8:23 pm

HDMI out, how to flip all cores 90 degrees on vertical lcd?

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Re: Screen Flip? Rotate Screen?

Postby ghogan42 » Sat Jul 27, 2019 9:56 pm

You can't. Every core would need to be recompiled with a screen rotation module inside it (like vertical arcade cores already have).

They don't have it right now and I guess probably never will.

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Re: Screen Flip? Rotate Screen?

Postby Sorgelig » Sun Jul 28, 2019 5:01 am

Rotating the screen is very resource hungry feature. There fore it won't be a standard feature for all cores.
Only vertical arcades have option to rotate for normally oriented monitor.

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Re: Screen Flip? Rotate Screen?

Postby digitron » Sun Jul 28, 2019 1:57 pm

ok thanks for the replies

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Re: Screen Flip? Rotate Screen?

Postby Lightwave » Sun Jul 28, 2019 5:34 pm

Sorgelig wrote:Rotating the screen is very resource hungry feature. There fore it won't be a standard feature for all cores.
Only vertical arcades have option to rotate for normally oriented monitor.


Wait, does that mean that vertical monitor orientation is actually the preferred case for these particular arcade games, and rotation to a normally oriented monitor (horizontal) is more resource hungry?

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Re: Screen Flip? Rotate Screen?

Postby ghogan42 » Mon Jul 29, 2019 2:01 am

Lightwave wrote:
Sorgelig wrote:Rotating the screen is very resource hungry feature. There fore it won't be a standard feature for all cores.
Only vertical arcades have option to rotate for normally oriented monitor.


Wait, does that mean that vertical monitor orientation is actually the preferred case for these particular arcade games, and rotation to a normally oriented monitor (horizontal) is more resource hungry?


Vertical arcade games like Donkey Kong or 1943 or many others always have two options for HDMI output:

(1) The normal video output that the original hardware would have. So the video is correct on a vertically oriented monitor.
(2) Rotated video for people with normal TVs in the normal horizontal position. This uses a rotation module sorgelig mentioned above.

All (as far as I know) cores for vertical arcade games only output the hardware's original video from the VGA port. So you would need to have a CRT in the vertical position if you want to go from the VGA to a CRT.

You can run the VGA output through the scaler too but unless you have a PC crt monitor then that's probably not what you'd want.

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Re: Screen Flip? Rotate Screen?

Postby Sorgelig » Mon Jul 29, 2019 9:56 am

Lightwave wrote:Wait, does that mean that vertical monitor orientation is actually the preferred case for these particular arcade games, and rotation to a normally oriented monitor (horizontal) is more resource hungry?

i'm not sure if i understand your question. Vertical arcades have an option to rotate. Rotating module eats a lot of FPGA RAM. But since these arcades aren't use much FPGA RAM, it's ok to use it for rotation.
In computer/console cores the usage of FPGA RAM is very high, so it's impossible to add rotation as a standard feature which will reserve large amount of FPGA RAM and limit the core features then. I even don't say that vertical monitors is not the target for MiSTer.

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Re: Screen Flip? Rotate Screen?

Postby Lightwave » Mon Jul 29, 2019 1:08 pm

Sorgelig wrote:
Lightwave wrote:Wait, does that mean that vertical monitor orientation is actually the preferred case for these particular arcade games, and rotation to a normally oriented monitor (horizontal) is more resource hungry?

i'm not sure if i understand your question. Vertical arcades have an option to rotate. Rotating module eats a lot of FPGA RAM. But since these arcades aren't use much FPGA RAM, it's ok to use it for rotation.
In computer/console cores the usage of FPGA RAM is very high, so it's impossible to add rotation as a standard feature which will reserve large amount of FPGA RAM and limit the core features then. I even don't say that vertical monitors is not the target for MiSTer.


Basically I was wondering which orientation uses more resources when running vertical arcade games: vertical on vertical monitor, or vertical on horizontal monitor?

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Re: Screen Flip? Rotate Screen?

Postby ghogan42 » Tue Jul 30, 2019 1:14 am

Lightwave wrote:
Sorgelig wrote:
Lightwave wrote:Wait, does that mean that vertical monitor orientation is actually the preferred case for these particular arcade games, and rotation to a normally oriented monitor (horizontal) is more resource hungry?

i'm not sure if i understand your question. Vertical arcades have an option to rotate. Rotating module eats a lot of FPGA RAM. But since these arcades aren't use much FPGA RAM, it's ok to use it for rotation.
In computer/console cores the usage of FPGA RAM is very high, so it's impossible to add rotation as a standard feature which will reserve large amount of FPGA RAM and limit the core features then. I even don't say that vertical monitors is not the target for MiSTer.


Basically I was wondering which orientation uses more resources when running vertical arcade games: vertical on vertical monitor, or vertical on horizontal monitor?


Vertical on a Horizontal monitor because the original video is generated and then run through the rotation module.

However with fpga, if the screen rotation module is included in a project then it's always there taking up space and probably always running and generating video. So the resources being used are the same regardless of which way you're viewing the video at any given moment.

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Re: Screen Flip? Rotate Screen?

Postby Sorgelig » Tue Jul 30, 2019 6:28 am

ghogan42 wrote:However with fpga, if the screen rotation module is included in a project then it's always there taking up space and probably always running and generating video. So the resources being used are the same regardless of which way you're viewing the video at any given moment.

Right.
It doesn't matter which monitor is used, as long as rotation module is included (in all vertical arcades) it takes the resources.

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Re: Screen Flip? Rotate Screen?

Postby digitron » Tue Aug 06, 2019 5:07 am

How to 180 flip vertical arcade cores on vga output? If you can set to vertical, why not also rotate? I got pacman plus core to work but screen is upside down, in an arcade cabinet that's a problem. Using J-PAC & IO Board. Thanks.

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Re: Screen Flip? Rotate Screen?

Postby trashuncle » Thu Aug 15, 2019 11:15 pm

I am having an issue with some of the arcade cores flipping the opposite direction of my monitor when I have it in vertical orientation, the rotation flips the opposite direction of my monitor, (Upside down) this seems to be the only core so far this happens on. The ones that I have noticed so far are 1942, 1943, Centipede.

Might Bomb Jack, Uniwars, Ms. Pac-Man, Galaga are some of the ones working properly.

This is in horizontal mode through HDMI using my BenQ Zowie RL2455T.

Any solutions? I checked my monitor's settings and I did not see any way to flip it.

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Re: Screen Flip? Rotate Screen?

Postby Lightwave » Fri Aug 16, 2019 4:39 am

trashuncle wrote:I am having an issue with some of the arcade cores flipping the opposite direction of my monitor when I have it in vertical orientation, the rotation flips the opposite direction of my monitor, (Upside down) this seems to be the only core so far this happens on. The ones that I have noticed so far are 1942, 1943, Centipede.

Might Bomb Jack, Uniwars, Ms. Pac-Man, Galaga are some of the ones working properly.

This is in horizontal mode through HDMI using my BenQ Zowie RL2455T.

Any solutions? I checked my monitor's settings and I did not see any way to flip it.


Jotego mentioned that he will work on a rotation option for the 1942 core.

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Re: Screen Flip? Rotate Screen?

Postby Sorgelig » Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:21 am

trashuncle wrote:I am having an issue with some of the arcade cores flipping the opposite direction of my monitor when I have it in vertical orientation,

it's not a bug. It's how original HW was designed. There was no common rotation at that time.
In vertical mode, video is passed as-is without transformation. And it's impossible to rotate it without patching the ROM.

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Re: Screen Flip? Rotate Screen?

Postby trashuncle » Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:33 am

Sorgelig wrote:
trashuncle wrote:I am having an issue with some of the arcade cores flipping the opposite direction of my monitor when I have it in vertical orientation,

it's not a bug. It's how original HW was designed. There was no common rotation at that time.
In vertical mode, video is passed as-is without transformation. And it's impossible to rotate it without patching the ROM.



ok so I can find a patched rom or patch one myself for the time being.

thanks!

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Re: Screen Flip? Rotate Screen?

Postby Sorgelig » Fri Aug 16, 2019 10:31 am

trashuncle wrote:
Sorgelig wrote:
trashuncle wrote:I am having an issue with some of the arcade cores flipping the opposite direction of my monitor when I have it in vertical orientation,

it's not a bug. It's how original HW was designed. There was no common rotation at that time.
In vertical mode, video is passed as-is without transformation. And it's impossible to rotate it without patching the ROM.



ok so I can find a patched rom or patch one myself for the time being.

thanks!

yes.. patched ROM + modified HDL. Both are required.

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Re: Screen Flip? Rotate Screen?

Postby eskwadrat » Sat Aug 31, 2019 9:23 pm

I also use arcade cabinet with vertical monitor installed and found the following cores have picture upside down in vertical mode. I realize some of these original arcades might have used monitor upside down some had dip switch to rotate the screen 180 degree vertical mode when installled in different cabinet but that would have to be supported in Nano board in the menu of each particular arcade, as of now none of these games support 180 degree vertical but I have been told by developers this may be revisited in the next core release.

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