Cable for component video output?

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amadama
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Cable for component video output?

Postby amadama » Thu Dec 20, 2018 1:00 pm

Hi everyone,
I'm hoping to get my I/O board soon so would like to try out component YPbPr output to my old CRT TV.
What kind of pre-made cable do I need to get?
I've seen mention of adding some resistors and NPN transistor and also mention of some people buying an "ultimate scart adapter UMSA".
Not really sure what to do here. Can someone offer me some suggestions?
Thanks!

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Re: Cable for component video output?

Postby Newsdee » Thu Dec 20, 2018 1:09 pm

The UMSA is this device from ArcadeForge:
http://arcadeforge.net/UMSA/UMSA-Ultima ... 89b5b77125

It basically combines an RGBHV signal (VGA plug but in 15khz instead of the VGA standard 31khz) with sound input and outputs it via SCART.

I'm not sure why you'd want to use that for YPbPr unless you have a SCART RGB to Component adapter. But it feels like you could go from RGBHV to conponent directly. Sorgelig had a cable for MiST that should work with MiSTer's VGA output in 15lhz mode.

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Re: Cable for component video output?

Postby Newsdee » Thu Dec 20, 2018 1:11 pm

Here's the thread in question:
viewtopic.php?t=31006&start=50#p325928

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Re: Cable for component video output?

Postby NML32 » Thu Dec 20, 2018 1:35 pm

This is the VGA to Component cable I'm using.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07F3 ... UTF8&psc=1

Here is one of my videos using component to my Sharp 4:3 NTSC CRT. I have other videos like this on my YT.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muVtfTo7LRY

On tab two of my Google Sheet, I have my MiSTer.ini settings.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0
Last edited by NML32 on Thu Dec 20, 2018 1:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Cable for component video output?

Postby amadama » Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:03 pm

Thanks guys, I was about to buy the items to build my own cable as mentioned in the MIST thread until I saw NML32's response.

NML32, I ordered the cable from Amazon you mentioned. Also, great videos! This and your spreadsheet really helped me out.
Thanks!

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Re: Cable for component video output?

Postby thelatestmodel » Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:59 pm

Thanks NML32, I've ordered one of those as well. Component is a very useful option for those of us in North America without SCART TVs.

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Re: Cable for component video output?

Postby NML32 » Thu Dec 20, 2018 3:33 pm

Some of the cores seem to have overscan on my TV. I'm not sure if it's the core or my TV displaying the overscan. It's not a big deal on my PVM since it has a button for overscan and underscan compensation.

I'm curious if anyone else notices this on their component setup.

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Re: Cable for component video output?

Postby telengard » Sun Dec 23, 2018 4:59 pm

NML32 wrote:This is the VGA to Component cable I'm using.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07F3 ... UTF8&psc=1

Here is one of my videos using component to my Sharp 4:3 NTSC CRT. I have other videos like this on my YT.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muVtfTo7LRY

On tab two of my Google Sheet, I have my MiSTer.ini settings.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0


@NML32, is that cable all you are using for YPbPr output? I purchased a similar (looking) cable and am not having much luck with tweaking the MiSTer.ini to get something to show up on my CRT. Could you possibly share your settings?

I too was about to start building the small interface as shown on the MiST page w/ the cap, 2 resistors, and a transistor, but based on the discussion here it doesn't seem necessary.


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Re: Cable for component video output?

Postby NML32 » Sun Dec 23, 2018 5:27 pm

@telengard attached is the MiSTer.ini I'm using to connect to my NTSC CRT via YPbPr. If your TV is NTSC try using the Menu.rbf in the zip file (rename to menu.rbf). Also, remember to move your sog switch to the on position.

My_YPbPr_Settings.zip
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Re: Cable for component video output?

Postby telengard » Sun Dec 23, 2018 9:13 pm

NML32 wrote:@telengard attached is the MiSTer.ini I'm using to connect to my NTSC CRT via YPbPr. If your TV is NTSC try using the Menu.rbf in the zip file (rename to menu.rbf). Also, remember to move your sog switch to the on position.

My_YPbPr_Settings.zip


EDIT: It does seem to be working somewhat. I had thought the YPbPr connection would be showing up on a certain channel on my TV, but it shows up on the "COLOR STREAM" channel. Only issue I'm seeing is the color seems a little off (white is a bit pinkish, very well could be my TV) and I have a bit of, not sure how to describe it, it's not rolling, but there are some vertical artifacts. It looks similar to what you see when watching a video of someone filming a CRT.

thanks for your help getting me this far!

---

Thanks NML32! I copied your ini file over as well as the menu (I am using an NTSC CRT), still nothing, and I did move the syng on green switch over. :(

Does your cable have any kind of additional electronics other than passing the signals through from the VGA connector to the 3 RCAs?

This is what I purchased to work with component cables I already had

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0021 ... UTF8&psc=1
Last edited by telengard on Sun Dec 23, 2018 9:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Cable for component video output?

Postby NML32 » Sun Dec 23, 2018 9:22 pm

telengard wrote:
Thanks NML32! I copied your ini file over as well as the menu (I am using an NTSC CRT), still nothing, and I did move the syng on green switch over. :(

Does your cable have any kind of additional electronics other than passing the signals through from the VGA connector to the 3 RCAs?

This is what I purchased to work with component cables I already had

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0021 ... UTF8&psc=1


I don't think so, when I was shopping around for a cable I made sure it referenced Component Y / Pr / Pb. Other than that I'm not sure if there is a difference in our cables. What do you see on your screen, can you post a pic?

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Re: Cable for component video output?

Postby telengard » Sun Dec 23, 2018 9:27 pm

NML32 wrote:
telengard wrote:
Thanks NML32! I copied your ini file over as well as the menu (I am using an NTSC CRT), still nothing, and I did move the syng on green switch over. :(

Does your cable have any kind of additional electronics other than passing the signals through from the VGA connector to the 3 RCAs?

This is what I purchased to work with component cables I already had

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0021 ... UTF8&psc=1


I don't think so, when I was shopping around for a cable I made sure it referenced Component Y / Pr / Pb. Other than that I'm not sure if there is a difference in our cables. What do you see on your screen, can you post a pic?


After some fiddling, it does seem to be working somewhat. I had thought the YPbPr connection would be showing up on a certain channel on my TV, but it shows up on the "COLOR STREAM" channel. Only issue I'm seeing is the color seems a little off (white is a bit pinkish, very well could be my TV) and I have a bit of, not sure how to describe it, it's not rolling, but there are some vertical artifacts. It looks similar to what you see when watching a video of someone filming a CRT.

thanks for your help getting me this far!

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Re: Cable for component video output?

Postby NML32 » Sun Dec 23, 2018 9:32 pm

Do you have the SOG switch on? It should be moved towards the VGA port for the on position. I think I saw what you are describing when my SOG was in the wrong position.

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Re: Cable for component video output?

Postby telengard » Sun Dec 23, 2018 9:46 pm

NML32 wrote:Do you have the SOG switch on? It should be moved towards the VGA port for the on position. I think I saw what you are describing when my SOG was in the wrong position.


Yes, I have the SoG switch towards the VGA connector. The artifacts I mentioned only show up in the menu, which displays fine other than that. Some cores on the other hand are having vertical sync issues. So far I've tried some of the cores listed on your google doc for supported cores (nice doc, thanks for that) - c64, atari 800, amiga, those don't sync. I also tried Colecovision and Sega Genesis and those look spectacular!

Good progress, thank you!

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Re: Cable for component video output?

Postby Sorgelig » Sun Dec 23, 2018 9:52 pm

You may enable vga_scaler=1 feature as well which will output the same HDMI resolution through VGA.
Then choose 480p or 576p HDMI resolution. Together with YPbPr it will give you the standard video output for component cable.
All cores should work (except non standard closed source ones).

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Re: Cable for component video output?

Postby orange808 » Sun Dec 23, 2018 10:12 pm

If you're using an older "SD" 480i television, you absolutely should not feed 480p signal into it.

You can damage your display doing that. Be careful and make sure your display supports the signal you feed.

Your old NTSC television won't do 480p. Don't use the scaler.

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Re: Cable for component video output?

Postby NML32 » Sun Dec 23, 2018 10:29 pm

Sorgelig wrote:You may enable vga_scaler=1 feature as well which will output the same HDMI resolution through VGA.
Then choose 480p or 576p HDMI resolution. Together with YPbPr it will give you the standard video output for component cable.
All cores should work (except non standard closed source ones).

Those settings almost worked for me. My screen looks messed up, but if I toggle the SOG switch a few times I get a picture, but it shows a double image.

Just to verify these are the settings I'm in my mister.ini

[MiSTer]
key_menu_as_rgui=0
forced_scandoubler=0
ypbpr=1
composite_sync=0
vga_scaler=1
hdmi_audio_96k=0
keyrah_mode=0x18d80002
volumectl=1
vscale_mode=0
vscale_border=0
video_mode=2 I also tried video_mode=6

Update: I also tried the above settings except for ypbpr=0 on my PVM and get the same results (Double image).

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Re: Cable for component video output?

Postby BahnYuki » Mon Dec 24, 2018 3:10 am

https://www.amazon.com/Monoprice-Component-Video-Cable-HD15/dp/B001VRQIIY

Is the cable I use. Works perfectly. Just remember to set YPbPr=1 in the *.ini file.

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Re: Cable for component video output?

Postby Sorgelig » Mon Dec 24, 2018 7:50 am

NML32 wrote:Just to verify these are the settings I'm in my mister.ini

[MiSTer]
key_menu_as_rgui=0
forced_scandoubler=0
ypbpr=1
composite_sync=0
vga_scaler=1
hdmi_audio_96k=0
keyrah_mode=0x18d80002
volumectl=1
vscale_mode=0
vscale_border=0
video_mode=2 I also tried video_mode=6

Update: I also tried the above settings except for ypbpr=0 on my PVM and get the same results (Double image).

if your TV accepts 480p, then add this:

video_mode=2

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Re: Cable for component video output?

Postby Sorgelig » Mon Dec 24, 2018 7:52 am

orange808 wrote:If you're using an older "SD" 480i television, you absolutely should not feed 480p signal into it.

You can damage your display doing that. Be careful and make sure your display supports the signal you feed.

Your old NTSC television won't do 480p. Don't use the scaler.

Trying 480p won't damage TV.
If TV doesn't support 480p, then either you will see double picture or nothing.
It's not harmful at all.

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Re: Cable for component video output?

Postby NML32 » Mon Dec 24, 2018 11:23 am

Sorgelig wrote:if your TV accepts 480p, then add this:

video_mode=2


Thanks for the info. It appears both my CRTs are 480i.

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Re: Cable for component video output?

Postby orange808 » Tue Dec 25, 2018 5:23 pm

Sorgelig wrote:
orange808 wrote:If you're using an older "SD" 480i television, you absolutely should not feed 480p signal into it.

You can damage your display doing that. Be careful and make sure your display supports the signal you feed.

Your old NTSC television won't do 480p. Don't use the scaler.

Trying 480p won't damage TV.
If TV doesn't support 480p, then either you will see double picture or nothing.
It's not harmful at all.


I appreciate your knowledge of many things, but feeding unsupported signals to a CRT absolutely can damage a display. Why take a chance?

It's always best to error on the side of caution. Furthermore, no CRT consumer televisions (that I know of) have undocumented 480p support, so there's no reason to take chances.

I stand by the warning to just be careful. I don't want anybody to accidentally damage their stuff.

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Re: Cable for component video output?

Postby BahnYuki » Tue Dec 25, 2018 9:18 pm

I have 3 consumer crts that support 480p and 1080i(scaled 720p). A 30" Toshiba with component and HDMI. Interestingly enough it does have a mode to run 480p as 540p instead of upconverting to 1080i. A significant improvement indeed.

My other two sets are the SONY 34XBR960 with the anti glare screen removed. Has two component and HDMI input. Once again every thing is set for 33khz so it will display 480p in a 540p window. The 34xbr960s are my favorite screens to game on due to excellent color and motion handling.

Currently I am using the Mister on a 36"JVC (240p/480i) I'art via component. This set is great with shadowmask grille so Ypbpr just shines on it. Overall I'm really impressed with Mister component output.


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