Newbie questions

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Main_MiSTer/wiki

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Re: Newbie questions

Postby BlockABoots » Mon Dec 03, 2018 6:41 pm

Sorgelig wrote:Assign OSD button in Menu core and it will open OSD in any core by this button. 8bitdo has additional sunk button below B button. You can assign it for OSD.
So i don't understand the whole question - it's implemented from the first version of MiSTer.


Yeah i know about the OSD button you can set in the Menu core and thats fine for pads that have a lot of buttons but what i was referring to was
the older 8BitDo pads....

Image

with these pads and similar pads that has less than 8 buttons your cant assign an OSD Menu button if playing the SNES Core for example, as all the buttons are taken up already and not a spare button to assign to the OSD menu so a 'toggle' button option in the OSD pad configuration menu would be very much appropriated

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Re: Newbie questions

Postby Sorgelig » Mon Dec 03, 2018 6:49 pm

OSD button on gamepad is used not only for OSD on/off but also for autofire on/off.
So you still need more buttons to utilize all functions. I suggest 8bitdo PRO version with analog sticks and additional 3 buttons.

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Re: Newbie questions

Postby BlockABoots » Mon Dec 03, 2018 7:33 pm

Sorgelig wrote:OSD button on gamepad is used not only for OSD on/off but also for autofire on/off.
So you still need more buttons to utilize all functions. I suggest 8bitdo PRO version with analog sticks and additional 3 buttons.


Yeah i have an XBox One pad here i could use, just wanted an authentic experience when playing the SNES core with a SNES pad. Just thought with a toggle option added (much like RetroArch uses) then being able to use pads like these would be possible

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Re: Newbie questions

Postby Sorgelig » Mon Dec 03, 2018 7:36 pm

BlockABoots wrote:just wanted an authentic experience when playing the SNES core with a SNES pad.

8bitdo SF30 Pro and SN30 Pro are also pretty much resemble SNES pad.

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Re: Newbie questions

Postby MattE888 » Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:02 pm

I tried to find a cheaper alternative to the 8bitdo pro controllers, and came up with these. I have no idea how good they are, but they would have an extra button for the OSD, if you are playing the SNES core. These are sega style controllers, so probably not the perfect solution for some.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07JMQ5YFL/re ... 34217&sr=2

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002BFVAV0/?c ... _lig_dp_it

I'm starting to wish I had not sold both of my official Sega Saturn controllers!

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Re: Newbie questions

Postby scandy » Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:12 pm

I have a Retroflag SNES joypad and it is very good indeed.

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Re: Newbie questions

Postby Sorgelig » Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:43 pm

If wired USB gamepad is ok, then choice is very big.
There are lot of PS3-looking chinese controllers - they have a lot of buttons and as cheap as $4 on Aliexpress.
https://www.aliexpress.com/af/usb-gamepad.html

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Re: Newbie questions

Postby MattE888 » Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:40 pm

Sorgelig wrote:If wired USB gamepad is ok, then choice is very big.
There are lot of PS3-looking chinese controllers - they have a lot of buttons and as cheap as $4 on Aliexpress.
https://www.aliexpress.com/af/usb-gamepad.html


That's a good idea too. I still wish someone made a USB SNES controller with an extra button, only because I'm a picky console gamer :D . For now, I'm going to go with a real PS2 controller with a USB adapter or I'll keep using the keyboard!

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Re: Newbie questions

Postby Sorgelig » Tue Dec 04, 2018 6:00 pm

MattE888 wrote:
Sorgelig wrote:I still wish someone made a USB SNES controller with an extra button

HTB1DEZZknTI8KJjSsphq6AFppXam.jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

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Re: Newbie questions

Postby MattE888 » Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:05 pm

Sorgelig wrote:
MattE888 wrote:
Sorgelig wrote:I still wish someone made a USB SNES controller with an extra button

HTB1DEZZknTI8KJjSsphq6AFppXam.jpg


That is a nice one, but I was wishing for a cheap snes usb controller with an extra button. I'm good for now, I have my ps2 controller rocking!

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Re: Newbie questions

Postby ghogan42 » Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:18 pm

MattE888 wrote:I tried to find a cheaper alternative to the 8bitdo pro controllers, and came up with these. I have no idea how good they are, but they would have an extra button for the OSD, if you are playing the SNES core. These are sega style controllers, so probably not the perfect solution for some.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07JMQ5YFL/re ... 34217&sr=2

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002BFVAV0/?c ... _lig_dp_it

I'm starting to wish I had not sold both of my official Sega Saturn controllers!


I have that Saturn style pad. It's pretty good. On mine the L/R buttons are harder to push than my real Japanese Saturn pad but I use L as 'select' R as the 'OSD' button and map the core's 'L' and 'R' (like SNES) to 'C' and 'Z' on the pad.

I use it for most things that aren't NES/SNES and have no problems with it.

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Issues w/ SCART output (via IO board/VGA) and certain cores (inc. menu)

Postby implodetee » Thu Dec 13, 2018 1:24 am

Just got my 5.5 I/O board in and crafted together a VGA->SCART cable using R/G/B and composite sync from VGA pin 13 to SCART pin 20 (based on the schematic here). The VGA cable is a PC cable with full shielding. On the I/O board, I enabled sync on green and some of the cores look great on my BVM D20F1U, others not so much.

The MiSTer menu comes in at 50Hz on boot. I've tried using some of the MiSTer.ini settings, like forced_scandoubler, composite_sync, and vga_scaler to no avail. vga_scaler fixes the menu, but then forces all working cores to a higher, non-optimal resolution (detected by my display as 480p).

Using no MiSTer.ini settings, I'm able to use the SMS, Genesis and TG16 cores with no issue at 240p. It looks beautiful. No problems at all with these cores.

The NES core has issues and the colors are darkened and the hues are completely off. The SNES core does not appear to function at all, and the Gameboy core reports no sync. I've tried switching the SOG to on, but no luck getting any of these running properly. The C64 core comes in at a warped 480p, and no sync is reported on the Atari 2600 core.

I've done some searches on the forum but haven't found anything that explains what I'm seeing.

Any suggestions?

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Re: Newbie questions

Postby DrOG » Thu Dec 13, 2018 5:10 am

Hi!

If you are really interested, my first recommendation is to read some older topics in the MiST subforum related to VGA compatibility, RGB and YUV output:

viewtopic.php?f=115&t=26963
viewtopic.php?f=115&t=28506
viewtopic.php?f=115&t=31006

As in case of MiSTer the VGA output is generating picture the same way as the reimplemented system, the same incompatibilities will occur as in case of MiST and original hardware. Sorgelig reworked significally all the cores ported to MiSTer, and his major goal was to create an open-source system with HDMI output and without compatibility issues. But AFAIK analogue RGB over VGA output remained the same.

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Re: Newbie questions

Postby SaschaFFM » Thu Dec 13, 2018 8:29 am

@implodetee

I have more or less the same setup. My only necessary change in mister.ini was to activate

composite_sync=1

The rest can be left default. You shouldn't activate scandoubler with your setup.

For SNES: You will need your games to be in the /snes folder and copy/rename one ROM to be called "boot.rom". VGA will only produce output once ROM loads. "Boot.rom" will be automatically started once core loads, so this will fix the issue. Same is true for Atari 2600.
I personally have troubles with NES as well. I guess NTSC games work better than PAL ones, but I still get horrible picture with my setup. As I heard there are plenty others with VGA issues on the NES-Core so it might not be related to our TVs. HDMI, works fine, though.

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Re: Newbie questions

Postby BlockABoots » Thu Dec 13, 2018 9:53 pm

BlockABoots wrote:
Sorgelig wrote:Assign OSD button in Menu core and it will open OSD in any core by this button. 8bitdo has additional sunk button below B button. You can assign it for OSD.
So i don't understand the whole question - it's implemented from the first version of MiSTer.


Yeah i know about the OSD button you can set in the Menu core and thats fine for pads that have a lot of buttons but what i was referring to was
the older 8BitDo pads....

Image

with these pads and similar pads that has less than 8 buttons your cant assign an OSD Menu button if playing the SNES Core for example, as all the buttons are taken up already and not a spare button to assign to the OSD menu so a 'toggle' button option in the OSD pad configuration menu would be very much appropriated


I guess this will become more of an issue when the LL Cool Joy board is released as that will use Real control pads and thus wont have extra buttons to use for bring up the MiSTer OSD, that why i suggested a toggle switch

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Re: Newbie questions

Postby Sorgelig » Thu Dec 13, 2018 10:07 pm

BlockABoots wrote:I guess this will become more of an issue when the LL Cool Joy board is released as that will use Real control pads and thus wont have extra buttons to use for bring up the MiSTer OSD, that why i suggested a toggle switch

that's why i think DB9 is pretty much useless.

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Re: Newbie questions

Postby HappyBirthday » Thu Dec 13, 2018 10:31 pm

I am new to the Mister scene as of a couple weeks ago, but already have a DE10 Nano, and SDRAM board, and have some questions:

1. I have completed the setup guide on the github wiki and confirmed the mister will boot properly but I have been hesitant to load and run any cores since I don't have any passive or active cooling setup yet, am I being overly cautious or is it a really bad idea to run cores for any amount of time with no cooling?

2. What is the preferred wireless controller setup? does the 8bitdo wireless usb adapter do a good job?

3. How long is the typical life cycle of a PCB revision (for IO or USB hub) before the community moves onto a new revision? I am inclined to wait until the LLCoolJoy is available before going all in on a expansion boards and a case and wanted to get a feel for how often this stuff changes. My assumption is it depends since all of this is open source and driven by the community but figured I would ask.

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Re: Newbie questions

Postby ghogan42 » Fri Dec 14, 2018 2:17 am

HappyBirthday wrote:1. I have completed the setup guide on the github wiki and confirmed the mister will boot properly but I have been hesitant to load and run any cores since I don't have any passive or active cooling setup yet, am I being overly cautious or is it a really bad idea to run cores for any amount of time with no cooling?


I ran mine with no heatsink on it for a few weeks. I didn't have any problems at all. I ran the Genesis and Tg16 cores fro hours at a time. I put on a heatsink when it came in the mail and everything is still fine.

2. What is the preferred wireless controller setup? does the 8bitdo wireless usb adapter do a good job?


8bitdo is the defacto standard for wireless controllers at this point. The older ones weren't perfect, but the newer 8bitdo snes-like controllers have a better dpad than the older ones. I have many controllers but I'm hoping that this one will be the perfect one for me when it's released: https://www.amazon.com/8Bitdo-Wireless- ... bitdo&th=1
EDIT: I guess technically there is no guarantee at this point that the receiver for this one has a microusb for connecting to a computer so it's not 100% that this will work for MiSTer. Buy at your own risk!

3. How long is the typical life cycle of a PCB revision (for IO or USB hub) before the community moves onto a new revision? I am inclined to wait until the LLCoolJoy is available before going all in on a expansion boards and a case and wanted to get a feel for how often this stuff changes. My assumption is it depends since all of this is open source and driven by the community but figured I would ask.


Boards change sometimes. But if you bought an older version SDRAM than the 1.1 XS SDRAM board, for example, you would still have an sdram board that runs every core released to date. And if a new IO board came out with a slightly different mix of inputs/outputs that doesn't mean the old one works worse.

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Re: Newbie questions

Postby Newsdee » Fri Dec 14, 2018 3:56 am

Sorgelig wrote:
BlockABoots wrote:I guess this will become more of an issue when the LL Cool Joy board is released as that will use Real control pads and thus wont have extra buttons to use for bring up the MiSTer OSD, that why i suggested a toggle switch

that's why i think DB9 is pretty much useless.


It's bad but still an old standard. I thought of improving the situation by having two DB9 map to a DB15, effectively giving an Atari/Amiga joystick plus a little "control panel" with 6 additional buttons. But it's easier to just use an 8bitdo receiver, honestly.

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Re: Newbie questions

Postby Sorgelig » Fri Dec 14, 2018 8:39 am

DB9 is made for specific platform and has limited number of buttons (1-2).
MiSTer doesn't support tape play/record to load/save the programs. So, why DB9 should?

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Re: Newbie questions

Postby BlockABoots » Fri Dec 14, 2018 2:50 pm

Indeed, but im sure a lot of people myself included would like to use their original controls if at all possible for the authentic experience especially when using a CRT

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Re: Newbie questions

Postby ArinoCX » Fri Dec 14, 2018 11:42 pm

BlockABoots wrote:Indeed, but im sure a lot of people myself included would like to use their original controls if at all possible for the authentic experience especially when using a CRT


+1

I'm sure the LL Cool Joy wouldnt be a thing if no one wanted an authentic experience

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Re: Newbie questions

Postby implodetee » Sat Dec 15, 2018 7:34 am

SaschaFFM wrote:@implodetee

I have more or less the same setup. My only necessary change in mister.ini was to activate

composite_sync=1

The rest can be left default. You shouldn't activate scandoubler with your setup.

For SNES: You will need your games to be in the /snes folder and copy/rename one ROM to be called "boot.rom". VGA will only produce output once ROM loads. "Boot.rom" will be automatically started once core loads, so this will fix the issue. Same is true for Atari 2600.
I personally have troubles with NES as well. I guess NTSC games work better than PAL ones, but I still get horrible picture with my setup. As I heard there are plenty others with VGA issues on the NES-Core so it might not be related to our TVs. HDMI, works fine, though.


The boot.rom fix worked for the Atari 2600 core, thank you! Frogger is strange, it seems to jitter a lot. Ms. Pacman works beautifully.

Doing this for the SNES core got me to the menu, but no ROMs load after that.

Disabling sync-on-green and using 'composite_sync=1' only made the NES core to be unusable in the menu (it was unusable during gameplay before this, so no change).

So what are the Genesis/SMS/TG16 cores doing that the others are not?

Still no luck with the C64 core, it still forces my BVM to HD (480p, not optimal).

Thanks for your help! Hoping someone can answer why analog output to a 240p RGB/SCART display via the VGA output is so broken?

Or do I need to calculate a video_mode for this?

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Re: Newbie questions

Postby MysteryM » Sat Dec 15, 2018 4:22 pm

Really dumb question so appologies :D

I want to extend the pcb mouting brass risers underneath the nano so that i can move the perspex sheet from the top to the bottom of the DE10, and glue in a maker spot usb hub to the Perspex with hot glue.

The current mountings are too short and thus anyone know what size I need (and what they are called!), I ideally need to source them from the uk. Just getting my nano ready for using daily but know the usb port is fragile so want to permanently set it up first, and then stick an io card on top.

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Re: Newbie questions

Postby SaschaFFM » Sat Dec 15, 2018 6:46 pm

implodetee wrote:Thanks for your help! Hoping someone can answer why analog output to a 240p RGB/SCART display via the VGA output is so broken?

Or do I need to calculate a video_mode for this?


Atari2600 is not working very well in terms of ROM-compatibility. Hard to find a Rom without minor or Major issues to my experience.

Never had issues with Genesis, SNES, PC-Engine. You do have

forced_scandoubler=0

In your mister.ini dont you? Might be an explanation if you don’t. How is your cabling between Mister and BVM? Do you have 75Ohm terminators on the BNC-OUT-Ports of your BVM?

Perhaps your SNES-Roms contain headers? Might work with newest SNES-Release but probably try with ‚240p test suite‘ for SNES? Just download and try it out. Test patterns do help a lot to identify video issues.


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