Introducing alternative USB HUB Board

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THaase
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Introducing alternative USB HUB Board

Postby THaase » Thu Sep 27, 2018 11:44 am

Hi to all,

as some of you know I'm not convinced of the existing USB HUB Board.
My major concern is the connection of the HUB to the DE10 using cables and the issue that the USB ports are on three sides.

So I've decided to design my own USB HUB .....

The major things I wanted to achive was:
1.) Cables only on the small sides (as there is cabeling already)
2.) Already build in convertes for Retro Joysticks using DB9 Connectors

While talking about this with Cyril I've decided to offer the possibility to use either just USB Ports OR the Convertes, so the board can be done in two different flavors:

1.) 6 USB Ports
MiSTer_USB_HUB6.jpg


2.) 4 USB Ports & 2 Retro Joysticks
MiSTer_USB_HUB_DB9_Top.jpg


Befor you ask: No it has not been possible to place both DB9 on one side due to space

The bottom side will look like this:
MiSTer_USB_HUB6_Bottom.jpg


As I said: Both board will be conneced not using cables.
So I've designed a second PCB doing the connection:
MiSTer_USB_HUB_Connector.jpg

(It's up to your imagination to think about the two Micro USB Male connectors on the board - my 3D skill is 0 )

If you now think: Why only 6 USB Ports or 4 Ports & 2 DB9 - have a look to the left upper boarder:
I've (placeholder for the moment) the idea to mount an ESP32-WROOM using also vusb for communication to the MiSTer and offer the possibility to connect to Wireless Controllers (this is just an idea at the moment - I'll first have to develop the needed FW for this).

And as a 'proof' that this might work - a picture of my prototype board (as you can see I've done some mistakes :D )
But basically it's fully working.

Capture.JPG


One thing to mention: The Retro Adapters are based on the schematics of Retro Designs - so you will be able to use all Retro Designs FW for differens types of Joysticks without any change - and it will be possible to change the Joystick FW from MiSTer Linux command line (at least).

So I've changed the layout already according to the errors I've fixed and hopefully the next set of boards is having no errors anymore (I'll order the PCBs within the next days).

When I can declare the layout as 'final' I'll provide the project data on github.
And yes - I'll offer full build ones in the future.

Please feel free to comment :wink:

cu
Thomas
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Sorgelig
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Re: Introducing alternative USB HUB Board

Postby Sorgelig » Thu Sep 27, 2018 2:11 pm

why you've placed the buttons on the bottom side?
Shouldn't be convenient to place on top side?

I wouldn't place any components on bottom (even passives) to make it flat. Otherwise it will require "high heels" to use the board without touching anything on bottom.

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Re: Introducing alternative USB HUB Board

Postby cvenditti » Thu Sep 27, 2018 3:00 pm

Fine work Thomas :cheers: - I can attest that you did put a lot of efforts and thoughts into this nice board.

THaase
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Re: Introducing alternative USB HUB Board

Postby THaase » Thu Sep 27, 2018 3:23 pm

Sorgelig wrote:why you've placed the buttons on the bottom side?
Shouldn't be convenient to place on top side?

I wouldn't place any components on bottom (even passives) to make it flat. Otherwise it will require "high heels" to use the board without touching anything on bottom.


I've placed the Buttons on the bottom side because I was thinking about a case.
If you build the whole stack into a case you will not have any chance to reach the buttons - here you just need a tiny hole.

Btw.: You will need the buttons only in case that you will upload a new firmware to the Atmel328p for supporting a different kind of joystick.
Even the jumpers are not needed - you can alternatively press the firebutton on the joystick while uploading.

According to heigh: You will need at least some space due to the THT components - if you reuse the spacers from the DE10 you have plenty of space - and even building in a case you will design 3-4mm for the screws - so I don't see any problems with that :D

Btw.: I will just use additional 20mm spacers between the DE10 and the Hub board

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Re: Introducing alternative USB HUB Board

Postby mattsoft » Thu Sep 27, 2018 3:43 pm

This is pretty cool. Nice work Thomas! I like the idea of having both USB and DB9 ports available on a single board. Curious to see an actual prototype hooked up to a DE-10.

Is the barrel plug on the side for +5V DC so the USB is powered from ext power supply instead of DE-10?

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Re: Introducing alternative USB HUB Board

Postby Sorgelig » Thu Sep 27, 2018 3:57 pm

What's the problem to place DB9 on the longer side?
DE10-nano already has connectors on both short sides, so it still require space on both sides. So, if you place MiSTer to the corner, on longer side, then another longer side is free for joystick connectors. It will be much easier to connect them than on short sides as it will be free from other connectors.

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Re: Introducing alternative USB HUB Board

Postby NegSol » Thu Sep 27, 2018 5:00 pm

Great work! :cheers:

Even when I personally fail to see the need for db9s on the MiSTer myself I like the spirit of designing additional MiSTer HW above all else. :mrgreen:

Keep it up!!!

...Of course I also got 2 MiST around for that joystick topic :contract:

THaase
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Re: Introducing alternative USB HUB Board

Postby THaase » Thu Sep 27, 2018 7:33 pm

mattsoft wrote:Curious to see an actual prototype hooked up to a DE-10.
Is the barrel plug on the side for +5V DC so the USB is powered from ext power supply instead of DE-10?


I'll take some pictures tomorrow - and yes - the barrel connector is on the same side as the one on DE10, so you can use a normal splitting cable.

Edit: Yes it‘s powered from external. Powerrail should work with 500mA at all ports simultaneously.
Last edited by THaase on Fri Sep 28, 2018 7:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

THaase
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Re: Introducing alternative USB HUB Board

Postby THaase » Thu Sep 27, 2018 8:09 pm

Sorgelig wrote:What's the problem to place DB9 on the longer side?
DE10-nano already has connectors on both short sides, so it still require space on both sides. So, if you place MiSTer to the corner, on longer side, then another longer side is free for joystick connectors. It will be much easier to connect them than on short sides as it will be free from other connectors.


There would be no problem to do so, except for my personal preference :D
I personally would have put the SerialUSB3 on the 5.5 IO heading to the short side - but your board - you decide :)

But as I said: I'll put the complete project data on github as soon as I can confirm that it's working.
So anyone can place the components where he/she likes it.

(If someone is interested in an actual snaphot (not cleand up :-) - send me a PM)

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Re: Introducing alternative USB HUB Board

Postby THaase » Thu Sep 27, 2018 8:12 pm

NegSol wrote:Even when I personally fail to see the need for db9s on the MiSTer myself


Yeah - I fully understand and that's the reason why I took over Cyrils idea to alternatively use 6 USB ports with the same PCB.
So you can either build it up with 6 USB or with 4 USB and 2 DB9s

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Re: Introducing alternative USB HUB Board

Postby THaase » Fri Sep 28, 2018 6:48 am

As promised some pictures of the mounted prototype:

Mounted1.JPG

Mounted2.JPG

Mounted3.JPG

Mounted4.JPG

Mounted5.JPG


As you can see - I've done some mistakes :-)
But I've to admit that this was my first PCB design :oops: - until this I've done most of all only designs using perfboards :D

My major mistakes:
1.) I screwed up the footprint of the double stacked USB connectors - no idea why - the holes for the datalines are not at the right position - so I've not been able to place the connectors on the PCB, but I've to put them on top and solder the contacts from front and backside :roll:

2.) I've also screwed up the pin numbering of the DB9 :oops: - so I've to do some cables in between to check functionality.

3.) The position of the MicroUSB-B is not correct (this was expected as I could not find out which exact type has been used on the DE10).
The inserting length is different to the one I've used and also the inserting heigh is different. So I've to put the connector 0.7mm to the edge of the PCB and increase the length of the connector board for 1.5mm.

4.) The position of the shield pins of the MicroUSB-Male-B used on the connector PCB isn't correct (has been expected). The only source I've found for this kind of connectors has been Aliexpress and the seller was giving only some pictures but no datasheet - so I've removed the shield pins and only soldered the datalines and power

The rest has worked as planed :D
I've corrected the errors and hope that I've not done new ones for the next set of PCBs.
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misc
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Re: Introducing alternative USB HUB Board

Postby misc » Tue Oct 16, 2018 6:15 pm

THaase wrote:As you can see - I've done some mistakes :-)
But I've to admit that this was my first PCB design :oops: - until this I've done most of all only designs using perfboards :D


Awesome work! I am learning KiCad right now as well, so I know what you are talking about. :lol: Are you going to release this as "open source" or do you offer the pcb when it's done ?
Michael

THaase
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Re: Introducing alternative USB HUB Board

Postby THaase » Tue Oct 16, 2018 6:45 pm

Hi Micha,

both :D
I'm at the moment preparing the github with the full KiCad project and the Wiki with the components and so on.
So anyone interested can build his own.

And for sure I'll also offer this assembled.

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Re: Introducing alternative USB HUB Board

Postby breiztiger » Tue Oct 16, 2018 8:01 pm

Hi

I want one with two db9 joysticks ports :cheers:

+1 on your buyer list

Thanks in advance

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Re: Introducing alternative USB HUB Board

Postby misc » Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:42 pm

THaase wrote:Hi Micha,

both :D
I'm at the moment preparing the github with the full KiCad project and the Wiki with the components and so on.
So anyone interested can build his own.

And for sure I'll also offer this assembled.


I should have read the whole thread, you talked about it already, sorry for asking again and again :lol:
I guess a short Micro USB cable would be sufficient instead of an additional PCB with the USB jacks, just my opinion.

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Re: Introducing alternative USB HUB Board

Postby grandalf » Sat Nov 10, 2018 4:15 am

Yes ribbon cable to USB de10 be simpler totally agree. And yes 4 USB and DB9 be really cool.
Can u post link GitHub link for your project if there is one? Or when ready.


I'm just wondering as far as Amiga and future Atarist core goes, will these USB ports work at present with mice and keyboards or and kB/mse wireless dongles.? I can only see Linux referenced?
I'm very new to this board too still nooby.

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Re: Introducing alternative USB HUB Board

Postby THaase » Sat Nov 10, 2018 9:15 am

I‘m still filling up the github pGe.
At the moment I‘m filling my stock of SDRam and RTC and continue soldering the reserved IOs.

After that I’ll build up the 2nd board for the USB Hub.
PCBs arrived on Monday (after 2.5 weeks in customs).
Parts already here, except DB9. The sellers on AliExpress always delivered Type 9.2 even if Type 5.08 was mentioned.
Look like I got them on Alibaba - but they are still in the mail.

I‘m against cable connection- first it’s hard to find cables with twice Micro B. Second if you don’t solder directly to a connector there will be 2 cm of connector.
With the connector board it‘s close to the board.
And I‘m already in contact with someone willing to do a case for the whole tower of boards.

Mice and so on should be no problem.
As I don’t want to go to support hell I‘ve implemented the DB9 on the Retronic-Design schematic.
This mean you can use all available FW from Retronic Design.
The Atmels on the board can be updated from the DE10 for adaptation of different Joysticks and Mouse.
Check the Retronic-Design website for further information.


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