Minimig (Amiga) core discussion

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eris
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Re: Minimig (Amiga) core discussion

Postby eris » Sat Oct 06, 2018 12:31 am

I've got my mister running. It passed 2 hours of memory tests on the 32 MB slim memory card I constructed at 167 MHz. It runs Galaga just fine, even without a memory card.

Unfortunately I spent several hours last week trying to get Minimig to boot, but had no success.

I loaded the latest Minimig.rbf, pointed it at a A1200 3.1 kickstart with 68020/24MB and the Amiga Forever workbench drive and all that happened was a black screen that alternated between grey and black again forever. The A1200 kickstart was extracted using FS-UAE booting into 3.1 and running transrom >kick.rom

For several hours I tried every single combination I could think of: Use 68000, use minimal memory, use Kickstart 1.3 and Workbench 1.3 etc. I read the forums for unstable Minimig.rbfs and tried a few other images. Nothing.

I was getting tired, so I'm sure I missed something in the instructions. Is Mister/Minimig compatible with the AROS kickstart? Maybe I could try that?

The only other thing I can think of right now is making sure it has a heat sink installed. I have one coming in tomorrow, so I can try again then. Any help greatly appreciated. There's an Amiga lurking around in my DE10 trying to get out!

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Re: Minimig (Amiga) core discussion

Postby wins04 » Sat Oct 06, 2018 5:04 am

Hi,

I had the same problem at start. I recommend, get a version of Amiga Forever (Cloanto) and create an hdf-File. The mount this hdf File in WinUAE and prepare the AmigaOS. After that you can copy the hdf File on your SDCard. It should run. You need to be patient until it runs.

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Re: Minimig (Amiga) core discussion

Postby Sorgelig » Sat Oct 06, 2018 6:42 am

I suggest to start to use Amiga with floppies first. Actually most games work from floppy.
HDF files created in UAE aren't always compatible. As explained earlier it's highly suggested to initialize and format the HDF on MiSTer first and only then use it on UAE to fill with required apps.

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Re: Minimig (Amiga) core discussion

Postby eris » Sat Oct 06, 2018 2:08 pm

Thank you wins and sorgelig. That might be one of the only things I didn't try. Hard to remember because it was getting very late. Boot into a 3.1 Workbench floppy image directly.

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Re: Minimig (Amiga) core discussion

Postby ReedSolomon » Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:59 am

So I'm just getting in to the whole FPGA thing and a buddy mentioned that he programmed a Zelda style game for the amiga back in the day on an amiga 500 and has it on an old amiga floppy. He sold the actual Amiga years ago, but is it possible to plug in a Toshiba PC USB floppy drive and read the Amiga floppy through that using minimig? Or are there other ways to use the FPGA on the DE-10 Nano to back up that game to a modern SD card? Assuming the floppy is still readable.

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Re: Minimig (Amiga) core discussion

Postby Sorgelig » Tue Oct 09, 2018 6:32 am

ReedSolomon wrote:So I'm just getting in to the whole FPGA thing and a buddy mentioned that he programmed a Zelda style game for the amiga back in the day on an amiga 500 and has it on an old amiga floppy. He sold the actual Amiga years ago, but is it possible to plug in a Toshiba PC USB floppy drive and read the Amiga floppy through that using minimig? Or are there other ways to use the FPGA on the DE-10 Nano to back up that game to a modern SD card? Assuming the floppy is still readable.

USB floppy aren't supported by MiSTer.
You need to look for Win/MAC/Linux solutions for Amiga floppy backup

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Re: Minimig (Amiga) core discussion

Postby ReedSolomon » Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:28 pm

Sorgelig wrote:USB floppy aren't supported by MiSTer.
You need to look for Win/MAC/Linux solutions for Amiga floppy backup

Thanks we'll try one of the other options between the two of us we have an old PC and some floppy drives. Just out of curiosity is there any hardware reason preventing minimig from being able to use a PC / USB floppy drive or is it just lack of interest in pursuing that feature.

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Re: Minimig (Amiga) core discussion

Postby Sorgelig » Tue Oct 09, 2018 8:14 pm

ReedSolomon wrote: or is it just lack of interest

this

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Re: Minimig (Amiga) core discussion

Postby BBond007 » Wed Oct 10, 2018 1:21 am

ReedSolomon wrote:
Sorgelig wrote:USB floppy aren't supported by MiSTer.
You need to look for Win/MAC/Linux solutions for Amiga floppy backup

Thanks we'll try one of the other options between the two of us we have an old PC and some floppy drives. Just out of curiosity is there any hardware reason preventing minimig from being able to use a PC / USB floppy drive or is it just lack of interest in pursuing that feature.


Probably hardware Limitation. There has never been an easy way to read Amiga formatted floppy disks on the PC or MAC under UAE or just in general. Custom hardware seems necessary. The only thing I am aware of that does this is The CatWeasel -> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Individua ... _Catweasel

The Armiga also does it, but I doubt its using a USB floppy.

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Re: Minimig (Amiga) core discussion

Postby hubersn » Wed Oct 10, 2018 1:02 pm

ReedSolomon wrote:Just out of curiosity is there any hardware reason preventing minimig from being able to use a PC / USB floppy drive or is it just lack of interest in pursuing that feature.


It depends what kind of hardware you mean when you say "PC / USB floppy drive". A bog-standard USB floppy drive that is automatically recognized by e.g. Windows as a "floppy" will only be able to read DOS floppies because of very silly restrictions in the USB floppy command set - IIRC there are limitations in supported sector sizes and sector numbering that make it e.g. impossible to support Acorn ADFS discs.

Of course there is advanced USB hardware like the KryoFlux that implements its own floppy controller and can talk to a "standard" 34pin Shugart floppy disc drive. In that case, lack of interest is the reason (and possibly lack of documentation about KryoFlux).

Have fun
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Re: Minimig (Amiga) core discussion

Postby ReedSolomon » Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:08 pm

BBond007 wrote:Probably hardware Limitation. There has never been an easy way to read Amiga formatted floppy disks on the PC or MAC under UAE or just in general. Custom hardware seems necessary. The only thing I am aware of that does this is The CatWeasel -> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Individua ... _Catweasel

Indeed that's the impression I've gotten as well, though the current version of Catweasel itself is FPGA based apparently.

hubersn wrote:It depends what kind of hardware you mean when you say "PC / USB floppy drive". A bog-standard USB floppy drive that is automatically recognized by e.g. Windows as a "floppy" will only be able to read DOS floppies because of very silly restrictions in the USB floppy command set - IIRC there are limitations in supported sector sizes and sector numbering that make it e.g. impossible to support Acorn ADFS discs.

Of course there is advanced USB hardware like the KryoFlux that implements its own floppy controller and can talk to a "standard" 34pin Shugart floppy disc drive. In that case, lack of interest is the reason (and possibly lack of documentation about KryoFlux).

Have fun
hubersn


Just the fact that it's so seemingly difficult to retrieve old Amiga disk images made me hope that MiSTer could (at least eventually) provide a solution through using a USB floppy (if it were possible to bypass any baked in firmware and get access to the raw device through USB which it would appear by most opinions there is not) or perhaps an IO board that allows access to PC floppy drives but then you're probably getting into more expensive territory. While KryoFlux and Catweasel are good options for limited use cases it's not really realistic for mine. Hopefully using two floppy drives on an older PC will work sufficiently.

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Re: Minimig (Amiga) core discussion

Postby Sorgelig » Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:21 pm

All games and apps are dumped many times and available in internet.
Some personal disks can be dumped using real Amiga. It's one time operation. But you always can learn HDL programming and write such support. This is how opensource works.

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Re: Minimig (Amiga) core discussion

Postby ijor » Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:53 pm

ReedSolomon wrote:Indeed that's the impression I've gotten as well, though the current version of Catweasel itself is FPGA based apparently.


Indeed, but the FPGA at the Catweasel it's so tiny in relation. The FPGA at the MiSTer is about 60 times bigger than the one at the Catweasel.

Just the fact that it's so seemingly difficult to retrieve old Amiga disk images made me hope that MiSTer could (at least eventually) provide a solution through using a USB floppy (if it were possible to bypass any baked in firmware and get access to the raw device through USB which it would appear by most opinions there is not) or perhaps an IO board that allows access to PC floppy drives but then you're probably getting into more expensive territory.


A firmware/software/HDL solution is not generally possible. And If there is indeed an USB drive that allows low level access, then you could do that with a regular PC.

Yes, a special I/O board is needed and you would have to use old school floppy drives. Not sure it would be expensive, you don't need much more than a few high current drivers and buffers. But the power consumption might be too much for the board and it might need external power supply. If somebody ever builds such kind of board, I might be willing to implement some code.

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Re: Minimig (Amiga) core discussion

Postby BBond007 » Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:09 am

@ReedSolomon

You should just send the disk via postal to someone with a working Amiga. They could email you back an ADF with the Zelda Game.

What country are you in?

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Re: Minimig (Amiga) core discussion

Postby eris » Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:49 am

Sorgelig wrote:I suggest to start to use Amiga with floppies first. Actually most games work from floppy.
HDF files created in UAE aren't always compatible. As explained earlier it's highly suggested to initialize and format the HDF on MiSTer first and only then use it on UAE to fill with required apps.


Okay, so I tried again. This time after installing a heatsink on the chip.

This time I wanted to first verify that the kick.rom image I had was good, so I used it to boot FS-UAE and it worked fine.

Next I booted a recent minimig and configued it for the A1200, 68020, 2MB of chip ram and 24 MB of fast ram and booted off the Workbench 3.1 install floppy image.

Still nothing but alternating black and grey screens. When it's on one of the screens one of the little green LED blinks like its trying to boot or read something.

I don't know what's left to try. Maybe it doesn't like my micro SD Card? It's fairly standard SanDisk 16GB Ultra Plus SDHC card formatted as FAT32. Could it be because I FAT32 initialized it from MacOS? It doesn't seem to keep it from being read by Minimig. I can browse and select the various kickstart, floppy and HD images.

I'll keep trying.

eris

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Re: Minimig (Amiga) core discussion

Postby mattsoft » Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:55 am

eris wrote:
Sorgelig wrote:I suggest to start to use Amiga with floppies first. Actually most games work from floppy.
HDF files created in UAE aren't always compatible. As explained earlier it's highly suggested to initialize and format the HDF on MiSTer first and only then use it on UAE to fill with required apps.


Okay, so I tried again. This time after installing a heatsink on the chip.

This time I wanted to first verify that the kick.rom image I had was good, so I used it to boot FS-UAE and it worked fine.

Next I booted a recent minimig and configued it for the A1200, 68020, 2MB of chip ram and 24 MB of fast ram and booted off the Workbench 3.1 install floppy image.

Still nothing but alternating black and grey screens. When it's on one of the screens one of the little green LED blinks like its trying to boot or read something.

I don't know what's left to try. Maybe it doesn't like my micro SD Card? It's fairly standard SanDisk 16GB Ultra Plus SDHC card formatted as FAT32. Could it be because I FAT32 initialized it from MacOS? It doesn't seem to keep it from being read by Minimig. I can browse and select the various kickstart, floppy and HD images.

I'll keep trying.

eris


wait, so can you even boot the minimig core? if not, have you tried another core like the mister menu?

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Re: Minimig (Amiga) core discussion

Postby ReedSolomon » Thu Oct 11, 2018 3:29 am

BBond007 wrote:@ReedSolomon

You should just send the disk via postal to someone with a working Amiga. They could email you back an ADF with the Zelda Game.

What country are you in?


I'm in Canada, if the first method doesn't work we'll have to try that.

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Re: Minimig (Amiga) core discussion

Postby eris » Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:10 am

mattsoft wrote:
eris wrote:
Sorgelig wrote:I suggest to start to use Amiga with floppies first. Actually most games work from floppy.
HDF files created in UAE aren't always compatible. As explained earlier it's highly suggested to initialize and format the HDF on MiSTer first and only then use it on UAE to fill with required apps.


Okay, so I tried again. This time after installing a heatsink on the chip.

This time I wanted to first verify that the kick.rom image I had was good, so I used it to boot FS-UAE and it worked fine.

Next I booted a recent minimig and configued it for the A1200, 68020, 2MB of chip ram and 24 MB of fast ram and booted off the Workbench 3.1 install floppy image.

Still nothing but alternating black and grey screens. When it's on one of the screens one of the little green LED blinks like its trying to boot or read something.

I don't know what's left to try. Maybe it doesn't like my micro SD Card? It's fairly standard SanDisk 16GB Ultra Plus SDHC card formatted as FAT32. Could it be because I FAT32 initialized it from MacOS? It doesn't seem to keep it from being read by Minimig. I can browse and select the various kickstart, floppy and HD images.

I'll keep trying.

eris


wait, so can you even boot the minimig core? if not, have you tried another core like the mister menu?


Yes. I mentioned that in previous posts. The DE10 with 256MB slim memory card:

a) Passes the memory tests for 2 hours straight with no errors at 167 MHz.
b) Runs Galaga just fine (except for some slight overscan)
c) Boots the minimig core. You get the quick boot message and when you hit F12 you are able to configure it.

It's just that when I do configure it with several configurations that boot perfectly with FS-UAE and reset all I get is alternating black and grey screens
and a green blinking LED.

At this point all I can think of is:
1) Some memory error that isn't detected with the memory test. One thing that would be nice would be an indication in the memory test the size of the memory being tested.
2) An incompatibility in the FAT32 or physical interface in the micro SD Card that's only apparent to Minimig, but not when booting / loading from the ARM. I'm not familiar enough with the way Minimig is being controlled to know.

I'm not a DE10 developer (yet), but if I were I'd try to attach to a debugger and see what was going on in the software/hardware logs. I know there's an amiga monitor that you can enable but I don't know what key to use to break in, nor how to use it to monitor the problem.

Still thinking about the problem.

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Re: Minimig (Amiga) core discussion

Postby mattsoft » Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:26 am

eris wrote:
mattsoft wrote:
eris wrote:
Okay, so I tried again. This time after installing a heatsink on the chip.

This time I wanted to first verify that the kick.rom image I had was good, so I used it to boot FS-UAE and it worked fine.

Next I booted a recent minimig and configued it for the A1200, 68020, 2MB of chip ram and 24 MB of fast ram and booted off the Workbench 3.1 install floppy image.

Still nothing but alternating black and grey screens. When it's on one of the screens one of the little green LED blinks like its trying to boot or read something.

I don't know what's left to try. Maybe it doesn't like my micro SD Card? It's fairly standard SanDisk 16GB Ultra Plus SDHC card formatted as FAT32. Could it be because I FAT32 initialized it from MacOS? It doesn't seem to keep it from being read by Minimig. I can browse and select the various kickstart, floppy and HD images.

I'll keep trying.

eris


wait, so can you even boot the minimig core? if not, have you tried another core like the mister menu?


Yes. I mentioned that in previous posts. The DE10 with 256MB slim memory card:

a) Passes the memory tests for 2 hours straight with no errors at 167 MHz.
b) Runs Galaga just fine (except for some slight overscan)
c) Boots the minimig core. You get the quick boot message and when you hit F12 you are able to configure it.

It's just that when I do configure it with several configurations that boot perfectly with FS-UAE and reset all I get is alternating black and grey screens
and a green blinking LED.

At this point all I can think of is:
1) Some memory error that isn't detected with the memory test. One thing that would be nice would be an indication in the memory test the size of the memory being tested.
2) An incompatibility in the FAT32 or physical interface in the micro SD Card that's only apparent to Minimig, but not when booting / loading from the ARM. I'm not familiar enough with the way Minimig is being controlled to know.

I'm not a DE10 developer (yet), but if I were I'd try to attach to a debugger and see what was going on in the software/hardware logs. I know there's an amiga monitor that you can enable but I don't know what key to use to break in, nor how to use it to monitor the problem.

Still thinking about the problem.


your kickstart rom files might be messed-up. i have no problems using the minimig core with various configs and kickstarts with an ExFAT/MBR formatted micro SD card done on my MacBook. if you need help with files/configs, PM me.

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Re: Minimig (Amiga) core discussion

Postby BBond007 » Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:32 am

eris wrote:Still thinking about the problem.


I also think it is your ROM file.

Make sure you format HDF _on your MiSTer_ by using Workbench 3.1 Install Disk.ADF/HDtools/HDToolBox including going into "Change Drive Type" and finally "Partition Drive"

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Re: Minimig (Amiga) core discussion

Postby eris » Fri Oct 12, 2018 4:03 am

mattsoft wrote:
eris wrote:
mattsoft wrote:
wait, so can you even boot the minimig core? if not, have you tried another core like the mister menu?


Yes. I mentioned that in previous posts. The DE10 with 256MB slim memory card:

a) Passes the memory tests for 2 hours straight with no errors at 167 MHz.
b) Runs Galaga just fine (except for some slight overscan)
c) Boots the minimig core. You get the quick boot message and when you hit F12 you are able to configure it.

It's just that when I do configure it with several configurations that boot perfectly with FS-UAE and reset all I get is alternating black and grey screens
and a green blinking LED.

At this point all I can think of is:
1) Some memory error that isn't detected with the memory test. One thing that would be nice would be an indication in the memory test the size of the memory being tested.
2) An incompatibility in the FAT32 or physical interface in the micro SD Card that's only apparent to Minimig, but not when booting / loading from the ARM. I'm not familiar enough with the way Minimig is being controlled to know.

I'm not a DE10 developer (yet), but if I were I'd try to attach to a debugger and see what was going on in the software/hardware logs. I know there's an amiga monitor that you can enable but I don't know what key to use to break in, nor how to use it to monitor the problem.

Still thinking about the problem.


your kickstart rom files might be messed-up. i have no problems using the minimig core with various configs and kickstarts with an ExFAT/MBR formatted micro SD card done on my MacBook. if you need help with files/configs, PM me.


I thought so too. That's why I specifically took my kickstart rom file that I extracted using "transrom" and re-used it with FS-UAE. It booted just fine. Could there be an incompatibility issue with Amiga Forever ROMs and Minimig?

I don't think it's a hard drive problem. All I'm trying to do is boot a simple Workbench 3.1 Install floppy. Maybe there's some wierd bug in the A1200 implementation. I should probably try going all the way back to a basic A500.

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Re: Minimig (Amiga) core discussion

Postby eris » Fri Oct 12, 2018 5:56 am

eris wrote:
mattsoft wrote:
eris wrote:I don't think it's a hard drive problem. All I'm trying to do is boot a simple Workbench 3.1 Install floppy. Maybe there's some wierd bug in the A1200 implementation. I should probably try going all the way back to a basic A500.


Well, test #15.

I tried the simplest possible setup I could think of. An A1000 with 512K of chip, 2 MB of Fast Ram. Kickstart 1.3 and Workbench 1.3. CPU is 68000.

I translated the kickstart 1.3 rom by running the same configuration in FS-UAE and extracting the ROM using transrom. I booted FS-UAE once using the ripped 1.3 kickstart and it worked fine.

Booted the DE10, started the latest Minimig and reset the core. This time it started on a black screen which became gray and then bright white. As I remember this is what the A1000 is supposed to look like as it loads kickstart.

Then it froze again. Nothing.

Now I'm really running out of ideas. The kickstarts are large. Something like 512KB. Is that the problem?

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Re: Minimig (Amiga) core discussion

Postby BBond007 » Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:03 am

eris wrote:I thought so too. That's why I specifically took my kickstart rom file that I extracted using "transrom" and re-used it with FS-UAE. It booted just fine. Could there be an incompatibility issue with Amiga Forever ROMs and Minimig?

I don't think it's a hard drive problem. All I'm trying to do is boot a simple Workbench 3.1 Install floppy. Maybe there's some wierd bug in the A1200 implementation. I should probably try going all the way back to a basic A500.


i dunno about transrom, never use that. maybe its messing things up.

if you are using AmigaForever you should be able to get the rom from here:

C:\Users\Public\Documents\Amiga Files\Shared\rom

In which case you'll also need ROM.KEY

512k is normal rom size. Only CD32 has a 1GB. 1.x ROMS were 256K

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Re: Minimig (Amiga) core discussion

Postby mattsoft » Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:05 am

eris wrote:Now I'm really running out of ideas. The kickstarts are large. Something like 512KB. Is that the problem?


I sent you some test files via PM. Let me know if those work.

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Re: Minimig (Amiga) core discussion

Postby Sorgelig » Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:52 am

I think SD card is simply in wrong format.
You need to use tool to prepare the SD card and put MiSTer system files there.

You cannot simply format SD card and use.


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