SDRAM board

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Main_MiSTer/wiki

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Sorgelig
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Re: SDRAM board

Postby Sorgelig » Mon Sep 23, 2019 8:47 pm

gojira54 wrote:I went for this one, hope it's right there was lots of choice with similar specs :s
https://www.digikey.co.uk/products/en?k ... 35933-1-ND

that's correct

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Re: SDRAM board

Postby digitron » Thu Sep 26, 2019 3:35 pm

What is the max memory SDRAM available for MiSter currently?

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Re: SDRAM board

Postby THaase » Thu Sep 26, 2019 3:51 pm

128MB on XSD2.4/XSD2.5

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Re: SDRAM board

Postby Ashenshards » Mon Sep 30, 2019 3:35 am

What's the difference between these? XSD2.4 / XSD2.5

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Re: SDRAM board

Postby THaase » Mon Sep 30, 2019 6:32 am

The XSD2.5 is just some mm smaller to be able to use special offers from Chineese Manufacturers for 4 Layer Boards up to 50mmx50mm (for prototype amounts)

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Re: SDRAM board

Postby gojira54 » Tue Oct 01, 2019 12:04 pm

I've got all the stuff to build some XSD2.4 using 2x Alliance Memory AS4C32M16SB-6TIN...
Any config request to try out? I have 0.1, 1 & 10uf caps on hand
Or has an optimal capacitor configuration been worked already out pls?
Please do not take it personal, my lawyer has policies

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Re: SDRAM board

Postby sofakng » Thu Oct 03, 2019 3:42 pm

gojira54 wrote:I've got all the stuff to build some XSD2.4 using 2x Alliance Memory AS4C32M16SB-6TIN...
Any config request to try out? I have 0.1, 1 & 10uf caps on hand
Or has an optimal capacitor configuration been worked already out pls?

I will also be assembling mine in a few days so I'm wondering the same thing...

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Re: SDRAM board

Postby daverhodus » Sat Oct 05, 2019 5:00 am

I ran a memtest on my 128mb RAM for about 30 minutes. I took a picture. Does this look correct?

https://imgur.com/a/yJGn32C

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Re: SDRAM board

Postby gojira54 » Sat Oct 05, 2019 12:03 pm

Nah man that says you have an uncountable number of errors :/
You know to press 'a' for the auto test in memtest right?
These are a bastard to solder!
I'm getting 150 passes on 2x 6tin xsd2.4 - good enough?
I'm doing same as Sorgelig recommended;
top: 10uf, 0.1uf, 10uf, 0.1uf
bottom: 10uf, 1uf, 1uf, 10uf, 10uf, 1uf, 1uf, 10uf

Image
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Re: SDRAM board

Postby witchmaster » Sat Oct 05, 2019 4:35 pm

daverhodus wrote:I ran a memtest on my 128mb RAM for about 30 minutes. I took a picture. Does this look correct?

https://imgur.com/a/yJGn32C

You can't expect to get error free behaviour @167MHz, try 150MHz and below.

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Re: SDRAM board

Postby daverhodus » Sat Oct 05, 2019 8:30 pm

witchmaster wrote:You can't expect to get error free behaviour @167MHz, try 150MHz and below.


I am getting errors @ 150 too. Should I seek a replacement? 140 seems fine.
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Re: SDRAM board

Postby Nat » Sat Oct 05, 2019 11:37 pm

Not at all, the fastest core based upon information in the wiki is the Archie (Acorn Archimedes) core and that requires only 126Mhz. If your chip passes at 130Mhz with no errors you are good.

I would also rather than relying on just a memory stress test, check the Archie and Minmig cores function as intended and also the bad apple demo on the Neo geo core, this is the only rom which uses the whole 128MB, Metal Slug 3 is also another good test on the Neo geo core.

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Re: SDRAM board

Postby daverhodus » Sun Oct 06, 2019 12:25 am

edit: I changed to a different Metal Slug 3 ROM and it seems fine now.

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Re: SDRAM board

Postby the80scomputers » Sun Oct 06, 2019 8:54 am

I have the same instability problems with my 64Mb module even though the memory test is stable at 160MHz.
In fact, all cores except for Minimig and Archie work perfectly even NeoGeo which could be the most demanding.
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Re: SDRAM board

Postby Sorgelig » Sun Oct 06, 2019 9:25 am

the80scomputers wrote:In fact, all cores except for Minimig and Archie work perfectly even NeoGeo which could be the most demanding.

NeoGeo is not demanding at all. Minimig and Archie - are.

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Re: SDRAM board

Postby the80scomputers » Sun Oct 06, 2019 9:36 am

Sorgelig wrote:
the80scomputers wrote:In fact, all cores except for Minimig and Archie work perfectly even NeoGeo which could be the most demanding.

NeoGeo is not demanding at all. Minimig and Archie - are.


Oops, I thought NeoGeo was a more modern and complex system. Anyway Minimig worked perfectly until the July version, later
and coping with the second speed increase it became unstable.

Is this not going to be solved for many of the unfortunate owners of SDRAM 64Mb modules?

Always grateful for your contribution to the project :-)

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Re: SDRAM board

Postby Sorgelig » Sun Oct 06, 2019 12:33 pm

Most likely situation won't change for 64MB modules. 64MB module has very narrow working range, with tolerance of both SDRAM module and de10 board this working range is easy to miss. XS module must be very well and carefully soldered and cleaned. XS 2.2 is better than XS 1.1. Still both aren't so robust.
Probably 64MB version will need 4layer board with better layout and ground planes. But i don't see a reason to work on newer version of PCB for 64MB as it doesn't cover all NeoGeo games. And with availability of 128MB modules it has even less reason to continue work on 64MB module.
If you don't need NeoGeo, then get 32MB module. If you need NeoGeo then get 128MB module.

Currently there are no cores utilizing 64MB. Even Minimig doesn't utilize 64MB anymore. Minimig just needs only 2MB on SDRAM fr ChipRAM to work.

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Re: SDRAM board

Postby the80scomputers » Sun Oct 06, 2019 3:39 pm

But it seems very strong for us to have those who have invested money in 64Mb, we have to get rid of it and spend more money when it is easy for you to give us a solution:

During the testing period of SDRAM 64Mb in which I participated, my memory module and that of other users worked perfectly at Minimig at speed when we set the SDRAM phase to 4, instead of 5 which is as it seems to be currently loading by default the core. That option on the menu was one our salvation because the instability problems were over and we could enjoy the new functionalities as direct video and speed of last versions Minimig.

It's a real shame and I don't understand why this option was not officially left. Even having found a solution and being so easy to implement, I don't understand why that option was not made official and some of us have to be forced to stay stuck in old versions of Amiga and Acorn Archimedes cores or have to spend more money on memory that unfortunately us do not have money left over :-(

We are affected by this situation
We would eternally thank you for being understanding with us and allowing us to continue enjoying your updates.

If necessary, those affected by this situation will make a collection to donate to this project.

Thanks in advance.

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Re: SDRAM board

Postby sofakng » Sun Oct 06, 2019 4:17 pm

Does anybody have any advice for soldering the memory module flat against the SDRAM board?

I've tried placing the 40 pin header on the board, and then flush cutting the pins before soldering. Then I soldered the pins on the backside of the board.

However, even my tiny solder blobs were too thick to allow the memory module to sit flush on the board.

Does anybody have any advice or tips?

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Re: SDRAM board

Postby gojira54 » Sun Oct 06, 2019 4:42 pm

Cut the pins flush then insert folded once piece of normal a4 paper in between pcb and header, heat enough so solder gets sucked down
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Re: SDRAM board

Postby Sorgelig » Sun Oct 06, 2019 4:56 pm

the80scomputers wrote:During the testing period of SDRAM 64Mb

"testing" is a key word here. And testing showed that 64MB module in its current version is not reliable.

the80scomputers wrote:It's a real shame

Can you refrain from using this word? Shame for who? Shame when i spend a lot of time for this hobby? Shame when i've soldered about 20 different memory modules and ordered different versions of PCBs? And most of those boards won't be used due to different problems.
You better think more careful before throw such words to those who doing it voluntarily as a hobby.
No one asked you to run before the train and buy 64MB ASAP.
Source code is opened, so you are free to build your own version which will work with your specific SDRAM module and with your specific de10 board.

According to seller who does 64MB modules, they all work fine. So, the problem with 64MB modules is still the quality of soldering. 32MB modules allowed any crappy soldering so many sellers continue to do the same with 64MB and then find out they don't work now... Not my problem i would say. I provide the sources - how it will be implemented is already up to the manufacturer/seller.

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Re: SDRAM board

Postby Sorgelig » Sun Oct 06, 2019 4:57 pm

gojira54 wrote:Cut the pins flush then insert folded once piece of normal a4 paper in between pcb and header, heat enough so solder gets sucked down

Right.
And with proper flux!

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Re: SDRAM board

Postby sofakng » Sun Oct 06, 2019 5:09 pm

Thanks for the advice.

I'm using a Hakko FX-888D at 600F degrees and a J-shape tip.

I'm also using Kester 959T no-clean flux but I do have rosin flux I can try.

I'm always afraid of no using enough solder so perhaps I just need to use a little less as well as trying to the folder paper trick?

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Re: SDRAM board

Postby the80scomputers » Sun Oct 06, 2019 5:28 pm

Sorgelig wrote:Can you refrain from using this word? Shame for who? Shame when i spend a lot of time for this hobby? Shame when i've soldered about 20 different memory modules and ordered different versions of PCBs? And most of those boards won't be used due to different problems.
You better think more careful before throw such words to those who doing it voluntarily as a hobby.
No one asked you to run before the train and buy 64MB ASAP.
Source code is opened, so you are free to build your own version which will work with your specific SDRAM module and with your specific de10 board.


I'm sorry but it seems that my words have been misunderstood :-(

When I said "It's a real shame" I didn't mean you but ourselves as sufferers of this situation, in the sense that something can be done for us and it don't want to do it. I think the word "shame" was mistranslated instead of "pity."

Thank you anyway :)

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Re: SDRAM board

Postby Sorgelig » Sun Oct 06, 2019 5:38 pm

I don't want to make MiSTer as a device for freaks with strange witchcraft settings. Phase tinkering is beyond normal settings.
As i've told before, use 32MB Module. On newer Minimig you can have 384MB with only 32MB SDRAM module.
None of cores require 64MB. It's kind of obsolete temporary solution.


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