SDRAM board

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Main_MiSTer/wiki

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the80scomputers
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Re: SDRAM board

Postby the80scomputers » Sun Oct 06, 2019 5:59 pm

Some of us no longer have the 32Mb module but we also like the 64Mb ROMs of NeoGeo, so we will have no choice but to resign ourselves with old versions of some cores, but it does not matter, do not worry :-)

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Re: SDRAM board

Postby JimDrew » Mon Oct 07, 2019 6:58 am

Your RAM only needs to pass 130MHz to run *everything* that the MiSTer project has to offer. Instability, with a memory test that passes, is related to something else other than the memory system.
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Re: SDRAM board

Postby the80scomputers » Mon Oct 07, 2019 7:43 am

JimDrew wrote:Your RAM only needs to pass 130MHz to run *everything* that the MiSTer project has to offer. Instability, with a memory test that passes, is related to something else other than the memory system.


As you can see my memory works fine ;-)
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Last edited by the80scomputers on Mon Oct 07, 2019 8:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: SDRAM board

Postby JimDrew » Mon Oct 07, 2019 8:21 am

Looks good to me... maybe you don't realize that the red 00000000's is the number of errors (none)?
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Re: SDRAM board

Postby the80scomputers » Mon Oct 07, 2019 8:35 am

JimDrew wrote:Looks good to me... maybe you don't realize that the red 00000000's is the number of errors (none)?


If what you mean by your answer is that there is something wrong in my De10-Nano, I think you are wrong because I have never had a problem with any core until the speed of Minimig was raised for the second time. It is just a matter of setting the phase of memory in this cases so that it works perfectly but if there is no will to do so we have no choice but to suffer it :-(

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Re: SDRAM board

Postby JimDrew » Mon Oct 07, 2019 7:46 pm

I was saying that based on your picture, your memory is working fine.

I will say this - the DE-10 Nano itself varies from unit to unit. I built a couple of the MiSTer 128MB boards. I also designed my own similar 128MB version. All of my DE-10 Nano boards give different results with any design that use the right-angle plug-in module type of setup. Some pass at 110MHz and some pass up to 150MHz (none pass at more than 150MHz). The issue is trying to match trace impedance with the right-angle connector. A top mount type board can be made to pass at 167MHz.
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Re: SDRAM board

Postby slup » Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:12 am

Sorgelig wrote:Can you refrain from using this word? Shame for who? Shame when i spend a lot of time for this hobby?


Hi Sorgelig - please be assured, 'shame' doesn't mean what you think it meant in that context. It means the original poster is disappointed in a situation, not that the second person has done something shameful. Two entirely different meanings.

For example:-

It was a shame the weather was so bad as I was planning on going to the beach at the weekend

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Re: SDRAM board

Postby Sorgelig » Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:30 am

JimDrew wrote:Some pass at 110MHz

That must be a bad soldering.
All 128MB modules properly soldered are passing at least 140MHz in memtest.

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Re: SDRAM board

Postby JimDrew » Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:50 am

Sorgelig wrote:
JimDrew wrote:Some pass at 110MHz

That must be a bad soldering.
All 128MB modules properly soldered are passing at least 140MHz in memtest.

The soldering is fine. :) Just switching DE-10 Nano boards shows different results. I have one DE-10 Nano board that won't pass any 128MB module (no matter which type, the MiSTer version or my own design) at more than 110MHz. Pull the module out and put it in another DE-10 board and it passes 140MHz+. < ads are not allowed and has been removed >
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Re: SDRAM board

Postby Sorgelig » Tue Oct 08, 2019 1:21 pm

Yeah, yeah.. another "unique" technology from fairy taller. There is no evidence of fully working de10 board not able to work higher than 110MHz with 128MB in memtest. This is another BS from your unfair "competition".
If you will continue post such crap, then it will be deleted. I fed up with your unfair behaviour to open source project which you want to eat like shark. Go to your Amiga commercial place where everyone eats his own cookie in its own hideous place and tell your funny stories there.
Your target audience are universities as you told many times. So go to your universities forums and advertise it there.

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Re: SDRAM board

Postby witchmaster » Tue Oct 08, 2019 4:47 pm

Got the parts and soldered a 128MB SDRAM card. I used Sorgeligs capacitor configuration (shown below) and it seems to work fine (stable @150MHz).

top: 10uf, 0.1uf, 10uf, 0.1uf
bottom: 10uf, 1uf, 1uf, 10uf, 10uf, 1uf, 1uf, 10uf

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Re: SDRAM board

Postby JimDrew » Tue Oct 08, 2019 6:26 pm

You have clearly missed the point here about DE-10 Nano board having different results. I would be happy to provide a video showing the results of the same SDRAM board in various DE-10 Nano boards. You are fool to believe that all of the DE-10 Nano boards have the same results with a plug-in type module. Even the 32MB module has different results (look at the posts here, others have noted it as well). The plug-in module is convenient for changing the size of the SDRAM as needed, but the methodology for doing so is one that simply can not yield reliable results at higher speeds.
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Re: SDRAM board

Postby sofakng » Tue Oct 08, 2019 7:03 pm

witchmaster wrote:Got the parts and soldered a 128MB SDRAM card. I used Sorgeligs capacitor configuration (shown below) and it seems to work fine (stable @150MHz).

I've just tested mine and I'm getting about 1 or 2 errors every 60 minutes at 150 MHz. However, 140 MHz is working fine (90+ minutes and no errors) and as mentioned it sounds like that's all that needed?

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Re: SDRAM board

Postby Sorgelig » Tue Oct 08, 2019 7:08 pm

I didn't say all de10 are the same. I just say that de10 not able to run more than 110MHz with 128MB module is BS. It's either broken de10 board or badly soldered SDRAM module.
Yes, de10 have tolerance from board to board, as SDRAM boards too. Some de10 may have errors on 150MHz. Some of them will have more errors, some less. Some boards will pass 150MHz.
But definitely not 110MHz. You are not the only who solder the boards.

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Re: SDRAM board

Postby Sorgelig » Tue Oct 08, 2019 7:10 pm

sofakng wrote:I've just tested mine and I'm getting about 1 or 2 errors every 60 minutes at 150 MHz. However, 140 MHz is working fine (90+ minutes and no errors) and as mentioned it sounds like that's all that needed?

After memtest, you need to test latest Minimig and Archie.

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Re: SDRAM board

Postby sofakng » Tue Oct 08, 2019 8:08 pm

Sorgelig wrote:
sofakng wrote:I've just tested mine and I'm getting about 1 or 2 errors every 60 minutes at 150 MHz. However, 140 MHz is working fine (90+ minutes and no errors) and as mentioned it sounds like that's all that needed?

After memtest, you need to test latest Minimig and Archie.

OK - Will do. Do I just need to open the core and let it idle or run anything specific?

Also, is memtest running for 60 minutes (at 140 MHz) considered stable?

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Re: SDRAM board

Postby Sorgelig » Tue Oct 08, 2019 8:11 pm

sofakng wrote:
Sorgelig wrote:
sofakng wrote:I've just tested mine and I'm getting about 1 or 2 errors every 60 minutes at 150 MHz. However, 140 MHz is working fine (90+ minutes and no errors) and as mentioned it sounds like that's all that needed?

After memtest, you need to test latest Minimig and Archie.

OK - Will do. Do I just need to open the core and let it idle or run anything specific?

Also, is memtest running for 60 minutes (at 140 MHz) considered stable?

Nothing special you need to do.. They usually don't boot if SDRAM is not working. But if you don't use these cores, then you don't need to worry about it.
60 mins is pretty much enough.

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Re: SDRAM board

Postby JimDrew » Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:02 pm

Sorgelig wrote:I didn't say all de10 are the same. I just say that de10 not able to run more than 110MHz with 128MB module is BS. It's either broken de10 board or badly soldered SDRAM module.
Yes, de10 have tolerance from board to board, as SDRAM boards too. Some de10 may have errors on 150MHz. Some of them will have more errors, some less. Some boards will pass 150MHz.
But definitely not 110MHz. You are not the only who solder the boards.


You can believe what you like. I have one DE-10 Nano board that won't pass at 120MHz. I can take that module out and place it in any of the other DE-10 Nano boards and it passes at 150MHz. I can make that DE-10 Nano board work fine at 150MHz using something other than a plug-in type module. That DE-10 Nano board runs all of the various FPGA (MiSTer and non-MiSTer) cores and the Terasic academic examples just fine. There is just a slight difference in the impedance characteristics between each board, and if you don't correct the timing through proper impedance matching of traces then you are going to have problems. With the plug-in style (right-angle) connector it is difficult to get anything close to ideal.
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Re: SDRAM board

Postby culexus » Sat Oct 12, 2019 10:09 pm

My capacitor configuration for the XS-D v2.4 with 7TCN

Top: 1uF 10uF 1uF 10uF
Bottom: 10uF 0.1uF 10uF 10uF 10uF 0.1uF 10uF 10uF

I now get stable @140mhz in memtest for +60min test.
I have built two boards so far and the first one worked just perfect right away. The last one did not pass at all in memtest, so I looked at the soldering and did not see any thing wrong. But decided to reflow the whole board and then it was working stable from 140 and down just like the first board. So the the chips need to be soldered 100% to get them working. :D

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Re: SDRAM board

Postby Sorgelig » Sun Oct 13, 2019 10:56 am

culexus wrote:So the the chips need to be soldered 100% to get them working.

unbelievable :mrgreen:

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Re: SDRAM board

Postby culexus » Sun Oct 13, 2019 8:05 pm

Sorgelig wrote:
culexus wrote:So the the chips need to be soldered 100% to get them working.

unbelievable :mrgreen:


At first I was thinking that this was easy but no this sucker need some attention!

But fun to solder since it need some form of skill to get it working.

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Re: SDRAM board

Postby digitron » Sun Oct 13, 2019 11:07 pm

Sorry but is this latest and greatest sdram?

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Hardwar ... .4_2.5.pdf

https://www.pcbway.com/project/sharepro ... _v2_4.html

Just want to confirm before ordering, for Neo Geo core. Also please confirm memory chip, thanks.

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Re: SDRAM board

Postby Nat » Mon Oct 14, 2019 12:11 am

Yes it is, the v2.5 version of XS-D is just a size revision to fall within 50mm width requirement for some PCB manufacturers to get lower prices.

Alliance Memory Part Numbers:

AS4C32M16SB-6TIN
AS4C32M16SB-7TIN

Both these version work well.

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Re: SDRAM board

Postby digitron » Mon Oct 14, 2019 12:38 am

Nat wrote:Yes it is, the v2.5 version of XS-D is just a size revision to fall within 50mm width requirement for some PCB manufacturers to get lower prices.

Alliance Memory Part Numbers:

AS4C32M16SB-6TIN
AS4C32M16SB-7TIN

Both these version work well.


Thanks! :)

Do you have a link to the 2.5 order on pcbway? The 2.4 boards are $50.

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Re: SDRAM board

Postby Sorgelig » Mon Oct 14, 2019 1:38 am

digitron wrote:Do you have a link to the 2.5 order on pcbway? The 2.4 boards are $50.

PCBWay has no special cost for smaller board. So both 2.4 and 2.5 cost the same. That's why there is no v2.5 on PCBWay.


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