I/O Board

https://github.com/MiSTer-devel/Main_MiSTer/wiki

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vorvek
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Re: I/O Board

Postby vorvek » Thu Dec 13, 2018 12:37 pm

cloudd wrote:Newbie here.

I have already been playing my de10 nano with mister and a OTG USB hub connected. The keyboard and USB controller work with no problems.


I just received 2x AIO complete boards v5.3 from retro shop. Once I have 1 of the boards attached to the de10 nano. I plug in my usb hub with keyboard/controller and boot up mister. It seems that mister boots as it should but my keyboard and controller are unresponsive. Am I supposed to change something on the DE10 Nano or in a config file to accommodate the AIO board?


Did you connect the keyboard/controller to the USB port in the IO board that says it's not a USB port but serial I/O?

Sorgelig
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Re: I/O Board

Postby Sorgelig » Thu Dec 13, 2018 12:43 pm

vorvek wrote:Did you connect the keyboard/controller to the USB port in the IO board that says it's not a USB port but serial I/O?

v5.3 has no such connector.

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Re: I/O Board

Postby vorvek » Thu Dec 13, 2018 12:56 pm

Sorgelig wrote:v5.3 has no such connector.


My bad, I mistakenly thought it was the IO board because of your previous post, and not the AIO board as cloudd said :oops:

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Re: I/O Board

Postby atmn » Fri Dec 14, 2018 12:18 pm

Quick question,
The three buttons on the I/O board, does they have the same function as the buttons om the de10-nano board?
One of those works like a cold reset, the other two does nothing at all it seems.

Ingame-reset and OSD button stopped working on the I/O board. Its just the cold-reboot that still works. Wonder if the problem is on the de10 nano or the I/O board.

All have worked nicely, it just stopped working all of a sudden.

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Re: I/O Board

Postby JimDrew » Fri Dec 14, 2018 4:04 pm

From what I can tell, the button functionality is core dependent. Cores support them differently in several cases.
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Re: I/O Board

Postby nico24 » Sat Dec 15, 2018 1:42 am

I received the latest io board from Retroshop. I also got a sub to mini sub otg adaptor. Out of interest what would I need to use that for?

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Re: I/O Board

Postby mattsoft » Sun Dec 16, 2018 4:44 pm

[deleted]
Last edited by mattsoft on Sun Dec 16, 2018 7:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ricardosaraiva
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Re: I/O Board

Postby ricardosaraiva » Sun Dec 16, 2018 6:07 pm

nico24 wrote:I received the latest io board from Retroshop. I also got a sub to mini sub otg adaptor. Out of interest what would I need to use that for?


You can ask me personaly. That is an offer I send to all users. It's the OTG Adaptor. Micro USB to USB :)

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Re: I/O Board

Postby ricardosaraiva » Sun Dec 16, 2018 6:10 pm

You can use that OTG or upgrade for USB board or future LL what we will produce ;)

tatouine
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Re: I/O Board

Postby tatouine » Fri Dec 28, 2018 8:11 am

For european people, i highly recommend Retroshop (ricardosaraiva).
I received my package very quick and the quality is top.
Everything is working fine, very happy to do business with Ricardo.

Thank you! :cheers:
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Re: I/O Board

Postby hernan43 » Tue Jan 01, 2019 12:54 am

I just thought I would share this on the off chance it would help someone else. I’ve got a self assembled board and was having an issue where the VGA output had a green tinge to it. I went over the board with my 10x and checked and rechecked all my solder joints. Turns out I had the Sync on Green switch(SOG) and that was the culprit.

An older post in this thread had someone with a similar issue. I’m a bit of a newb so I thought I’d share this with any other newbs that may stumble onto this thread.

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Re: I/O Board

Postby VuData » Wed Jan 02, 2019 1:34 pm

tatouine wrote:For european people, i highly recommend Retroshop (ricardosaraiva).
I received my package very quick and the quality is top.
Everything is working fine, very happy to do business with Ricardo.

Thank you! :cheers:



Likewise if you are in Australia. I received mine from Retroshop quickly and its working fine.

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Re: I/O Board

Postby Hewhoisred » Wed Jan 02, 2019 10:19 pm

Quick question here from a newb electronics person.

I purchased a large case of LEDs from amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0718VTDC9

I am hoping to use them for my IO board I'm hand soldering. I have all the surface mount 200 ohm resistors in place as specified by the schematic.

The product description is pretty bare, not listing an real specs, but I'm assuming that since it says "Great for Arduino projects, Great for breadboard use" it's probably okay to use for this project.

I read earlier in the thread that especially the small 3mm led needs to be bright enough for the TOS link functionality to work, so I'm hoping the one in this box will work okay.

So the question is, are there any dangers here for using these generic no-spec LEDs. I really don't want to damage my DE10. Please forgive my ignorance and thank you for your time.

Other quick question- since I did not purchase pins+jumper, solder bridging P5 is correct for LEDs to be on, yes?

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Re: I/O Board

Postby jft » Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:14 am

Hewhoisred wrote:So the question is, are there any dangers here for using these generic no-spec LEDs. I really don't want to damage my DE10. Please forgive my ignorance and thank you for your time.


I have found that most generic 3mm/5mm LEDs are similar in specs. I'm not an expert in LEDs but I believe the current (and forward voltage) is what is important, and the 200ohm resistor is going to let the same current through any LED you install. It wont damage the DE10, just brightness might be a little different. I would try to build one board and test it. At worse you can just remove them and try different ones.

Hewhoisred wrote:Other quick question- since I did not purchase pins+jumper, solder bridging P5 is correct for LEDs to be on, yes?


There is a trace connecting the two P5 vias by default on 5.5, so you are good to go without a header and without a solder bridge. In order to install a working P5 header, you would have to sever the trace with a blade before installing the header.

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Re: I/O Board

Postby Poobah » Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:31 am

Some issues to investigate:

1) You'll need to know the forward voltage of the LED to really analyze if it is appropriate. Fortunately, it's just a a diode. Put your multi meter on the diode setting, connect it up to your LED and read off the forward voltage, it'll probably be 2.0 ish, but you never know. I just measured one random one out of my parts box at 1.6 volts. Now Vcc on the IO board is 3.3, and this parts box LED would drop 1.6v, leaving 1.7v across the resistor. Pulling out our old friend V=IR, we get I = V/R = 1.7/200 = 8.6 mA, which should be fine, but maybe not terribly bright. 20 mA is a common value for 'normal' 3 or 5mm LEDs. More current = brighter LED, up to the capability of the LED, or of the driving device to source or sink that current.

2) Speaking of brightness, LED brightness varies greatly, you can get 20 mcd from LED A, and 1200 mcd form LED B. Up to 300 ish are fairly common. The indicator LEDs on the IO board BOM are in the 200 - 300 range. The TOSlink LED however, is much brighter at 900 ish mcd. You are using the LED to light up an optical fiber in your TOSlink cable, if it isn't sufficiently bright, you wont get a good result. The ones in the no name kit probably are at the lower end of the spectrum. Maybe they work, maybe not.

3) And, speaking of spectrum... TOSlink is spec'd at 650nM, which is basically red. Whether a random red LED will work will depend on what specific wavelength that LED is, and how much wiggle room the receiver side has.

All this is academic though, a couple hundred ohm resistor is probably ok-ish for any random 3 or 5mm LED you might pull out of a no-name kit. You may not have as much luck for the TOSlink LED though, it really needs to be quite bright, and a cheap kit probably isn't full of super-bright LEDs.

Also, hardcore EEs will probably tear this all apart, but it's accurate enough for what we are doing. :roll:
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Re: I/O Board

Postby Hewhoisred » Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:43 am

Thanks much for the responses. Academic is what I want/need. I would like to learn from this rather than just put together a glorified Lego. Thanks for taking me to school. :D

Again, forgive my ignorance, but according to this 3mm red LED from the BOM:
https://lcsc.com/product-detail/Light-Emitting-Diodes-LED_f3Long-legs-Round-with-edge-Red_C2155.html

is rated 6.6mcd@20mA?

The linked 5mm red from the BOM is showing 10mcd according to the data sheet.

Am I reading that wrong, maybe not understanding something?

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Re: I/O Board

Postby Sorgelig » Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:37 pm

I recommend to use low brightness LEDs for indication. 20-40mcd is pretty fine to not distract the user.

Poobah wrote:2) Speaking of brightness, LED brightness varies greatly, you can get 20 mcd from LED A, and 1200 mcd form LED B. Up to 300 ish are fairly common. The indicator LEDs on the IO board BOM are in the 200 - 300 range. The TOSlink LED however, is much brighter at 900 ish mcd. You are using the LED to light up an optical fiber in your TOSlink cable, if it isn't sufficiently bright, you wont get a good result. The ones in the no name kit probably are at the lower end of the spectrum. Maybe they work, maybe not.

1200mcd? It will burn the eye! It will be hurt to look at it.
TOSLink doesn't need too high brightness. I use random non-name red LED for TOSLink. I don't think it's brighter than 100mcd.

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Re: I/O Board

Postby jft » Thu Jan 03, 2019 1:04 pm

Sorgelig wrote: TOSLink doesn't need too high brightness. I use random non-name red LED for TOSLink. I don't think it's brighter than 100mcd.


Sorgelig's specs do indicate a low mcd diode indeed (per WIKI https://lcsc.com/product-detail/Light-E ... C2155.html - which BTW Sorgelig, this is listed as Discontinued on LCSC?)

I have used these in my I/O boards: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/500pcs- ... 29691.html
They state they are 600-800mcd capable, and they work over a 25ft (~6 meter) TOSLINK cable (according to wikipedia, 5-10m is the TOSLINK standard over generic plastic cables)

Interesting thing is these both are 620nm-ish, so it's slightly higher in the red spectrum than the TOSLINK standard calls for.
I was not able to quickly locate what the TOSLINK spec calls for brightness. The supposed link to it on wikipedia gives a 404. If anyone has a link to the actual TOSLINK specifications, I would appreciate it!

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Re: I/O Board

Postby Poobah » Fri Jan 04, 2019 4:46 am

Interesting....

BOMs I surveyed (not the wiki, which was 5.2 at the time) used very bright (600+ mcd) LEDs for TOSLink. I settled on one listed at LCSC: C54149 LED for TOSLink, that's a 620-630nm 926 mcd LED. It is fairly bright, but diffuse - worked well (Also discontinued, BTW)
Doing the math, that LED is driven a little less than 1/2 rated current, which is still 400 ish mcd (assuming linear brightness)

I'll have to examine some other options, and test against TOSLInk cable setup.
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Re: I/O Board

Postby Poobah » Fri Jan 04, 2019 5:47 am

So, looking at the datasheets for the Toshiba TOSlink receivers, and doing the math, assuming a perfect connection from the LED to the TOSLink cable, and max 2 dB cable loss, we'd ideally want an LED with an output between 16 and 163 mcd @ 650nm. Given the connection between the LED and the cable is less than ideal, i'd give 3 dB of margin, so 32 to 326mcd @ 650nm optimal.
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Re: I/O Board

Postby Sorgelig » Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:47 am

I don't watch the status of components in BOM. Treat all passives as just reference. They can be replaced by similar components.

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Re: I/O Board

Postby JamesF » Fri Jan 04, 2019 2:48 pm

@Sorgelig
I can clearly hear* aliasing when I use SPDIF audio especially in high frequencies, but HDMI audio is crystal clear.
I have tried receiving the digital SPDIF audio with different devices but I still hear this aliasing.
Is is the same digital audio stream for both?

*Can be clearly heard in Genesis Sonic when picking rings, or Nes 240p suite audio test.

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Re: I/O Board

Postby Sorgelig » Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:03 pm

SPDIF uses different kind of filter than I2S(HDMI). I don't know if this makes the difference or something else. It's possible your TV (or whatever you use) applies different filter for HDMI audio than on SPDIF.
I can make a test version with the same filter i use for I2S.

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Re: I/O Board

Postby JamesF » Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:43 pm

I've tried several SPDIF devices including professional audio interface, they all had audible aliasing from the MiSTer SPDIF.
Yes, please make a test version with the same filter as with I2S for SPDIF.
I am very critical about audio, and listen through professional studio audio monitors.

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Re: I/O Board

Postby jft » Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:53 pm

Sorgelig wrote:SPDIF uses different kind of filter than I2S(HDMI)


I'm curious (and probably JamesF as well) why there is any difference in the data between HDMI/I2S and SPDIF? In theory, can they not be the same datastream, just presented differently depending on the output?
My apologies if it sounds like a dumb question, I'm coming at this not from the perspective of a FPGA engineer, but from knowledge of digital audio formats.


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