MiSTer: MiST on Terasic DE10-nano board.

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Re: MiSTer: MiST on Terasic DE10-nano board.

Postby NegSol » Sat Jun 24, 2017 10:52 am

I just received a DE10-Nano board- the provided SD card with Linux is booting fine - however, I cannot get any USB device (keyboard, mouse) to work on the OTG mini usb port. Anyone else had this issue? Maybe the port is not in host mode, but shouldn't host be the default setting? Any suggestion is welcome.

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Re: MiSTer: MiST on Terasic DE10-nano board.

Postby NegSol » Sat Jun 24, 2017 11:08 am

Ok - I found out that it appears to be in client mode. But how to switch it to host? Anyone?

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Re: MiSTer: MiST on Terasic DE10-nano board.

Postby Sorgelig » Sat Jun 24, 2017 11:10 am

You need to use OTG cable to switch into Host mode. By default OTG connector in device mode.
You can look for specifically OTG USB HUB. Such HUBs have convenient micro USB plug.

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Re: MiSTer: MiST on Terasic DE10-nano board.

Postby Sorgelig » Sat Jun 24, 2017 11:18 am

IMG_20170624_1912_0250.jpg


both are OTG HUBs. The lower one has universal plug.
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Re: MiSTer: MiST on Terasic DE10-nano board.

Postby NegSol » Sat Jun 24, 2017 11:23 am

Thanks for the suggestion. I have the hub in the picture you showed. But apparently there is no power on the OTG port. So this hub does not work.

Connecting a powered usb hub now enabled the usb devices attached. Keyboard an mouse work when they get power by the HUB.

Is your OTG port powered by the DE10? I am thinking that maybe a fuse has blown on mine? Or maybe it is my power supply (5V, 2.1 A).

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Re: MiSTer: MiST on Terasic DE10-nano board.

Postby Sorgelig » Sat Jun 24, 2017 11:52 am

Newsdee wrote:It's always possible to have different daughterboards for different purposes, although it could get messy to make cores recognize one versus the other. Perhaps four pins can be sacrificed to give a 4-bit identification number, so the cores can automatically know what is plugged?

40pin connector is not designed for often re-plugs. It's not like USB. It's even possible to damage the board due to high force of plug/unplug.
Actually i'm against the mayhem of daughter boards. I prefer USB devices.
But It's possible to define some universal bus on GPIO where different extension boards will be connected. It can be SPI/QSPI bus which should be DIY friendly bus. And then with help of tiny MCU it will be possible to connect DB9 boards, RS23 boards, and even IDE boards. That's my proposal.
I really don't like a raw unknown purpose GPIO connections even if there will be ID pins.

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Re: MiSTer: MiST on Terasic DE10-nano board.

Postby Sorgelig » Sat Jun 24, 2017 11:55 am

NegSol wrote:Is your OTG port powered by the DE10? I am thinking that maybe a fuse has blown on mine? Or maybe it is my power supply (5V, 2.1 A).

yes, both my HUBs get power from DE10. I've noticed that HUB is not recognized if plugged after DE10 boot. So, it's better to have it plugged before you boot DE10.

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Re: MiSTer: MiST on Terasic DE10-nano board.

Postby Sorgelig » Sat Jun 24, 2017 12:11 pm

Actually OTG power output of DE10 has special chip which is supposed to handle over-current and other problems. So i think the USB host power is OK.

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Re: MiSTer: MiST on Terasic DE10-nano board.

Postby NegSol » Sat Jun 24, 2017 12:54 pm

Ok - thank you I will continue investigating the power issue later today. Also I will try and setup an sd card following your guide on the wiki. :-)

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Re: MiSTer: MiST on Terasic DE10-nano board.

Postby Sorgelig » Sat Jun 24, 2017 1:29 pm

you can use Menu, C64 and FPGAGen cores without SDRAM board.

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Re: MiSTer: MiST on Terasic DE10-nano board.

Postby NegSol » Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:39 pm

Okay - I got everything set up - so your instructions regarding the SD-Card work perfectly. However, I am stuck at the menu with no usb device :-(. Same issue as before only that now the powered USB hub trick wont work (I test 4 different usb hubs). The user button works so I know that your codes runs in the background.

Strange thing is that the hub solutions works with all linux imgs supplied by terasic. Anyway - I guess my board is faulty. I will try to get a replacement... :-(

Anyway cheers for your support and your work on the MISTer !!

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Re: MiSTer: MiST on Terasic DE10-nano board.

Postby Sorgelig » Sat Jun 24, 2017 10:34 pm

Wait. Are you telling that DE10 with ubuntu supplied by Terasic on SD card USB devices work, but on my linux it doesn't?

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Re: MiSTer: MiST on Terasic DE10-nano board.

Postby Newsdee » Sat Jun 24, 2017 11:15 pm

Sorgelig wrote:
Newsdee wrote:It's always possible to have different daughterboards for different purposes, although it could get messy to make cores recognize one versus the other. Perhaps four pins can be sacrificed to give a 4-bit identification number, so the cores can automatically know what is plugged?

But It's possible to define some universal bus on GPIO where different extension boards will be connected. It can be SPI/QSPI bus which should be DIY friendly bus. And then with help of tiny MCU it will be possible to connect DB9 boards, RS23 boards, and even IDE boards. That's my proposal.
I really don't like a raw unknown purpose GPIO connections even if there will be ID pins.

Yes this (using SPI) is a very good idea'; indeed we don't want too much strain on the connectors. As long as the specs are set early, it should be easy to expand (versus retrofitting it much later) and being open source, the "standard" could benefit other projects.

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Re: MiSTer: MiST on Terasic DE10-nano board.

Postby Sorgelig » Sun Jun 25, 2017 2:30 am

I think, in case of LPC (low pin count) bus like QSPI, it's possible to make an external connector where extensions will be plugged.

Oh, i've forgot, there is already similar connector on the board. It's not QSPI, it's LTC. Kind of standard connector with I2C+SPI+1xGPIO. It's connected to ARM side which i think even better.
So, basically DE10 already has DIY friendly connector for extensions and it won't occupy GPIO.

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Re: MiSTer: MiST on Terasic DE10-nano board.

Postby NegSol » Sun Jun 25, 2017 5:20 am

Sorgelig wrote:Wait. Are you telling that DE10 with ubuntu supplied by Terasic on SD card USB devices work, but on my linux it doesn't?


Yes - that is exactly what I see. When I look at the console output of the default linux I get these lines
"
3.528305] usb 1-1: New USB device found, idVendor=03eb, idProduct=3301
[ 3.542854] usb 1-1: New USB device strings: Mfr=0, Product=2, SerialNumber=0
[ 3.557815] usb 1-1: Product: Standard USB Hub
[ 3.571113] hub 1-1:1.0: USB hub found
[ 3.582913] hub 1-1:1.0: 4 ports detected
"
Also all attached USB devices work in the default linux.

However on the SD Card Installer Linux of the MISTer I get no USB at all. Strange - right?

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Re: MiSTer: MiST on Terasic DE10-nano board.

Postby ericgus » Sun Jun 25, 2017 5:59 am

Sorgelig wrote:But It's possible to define some universal bus on GPIO where different extension boards will be connected. It can be SPI/QSPI bus which should be DIY friendly bus. And then with help of tiny MCU it will be possible to connect DB9 boards, RS23 boards, and even IDE boards. That's my proposal.


thats an interesting approach..

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Re: MiSTer: MiST on Terasic DE10-nano board.

Postby Newsdee » Sun Jun 25, 2017 8:15 am

Is the arduino connector independent from the GPIO? If so... that might be a convenient place to put a small LCD 320x240 screen and make a portable system :) Here's a small recap of where things could go, from what has been mentioned so far (click for larger version):

layout_mister.jpg
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Re: MiSTer: MiST on Terasic DE10-nano board.

Postby mgreima » Sun Jun 25, 2017 8:58 am

If I read the docs right, they are independent from the GPIO.

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Re: MiSTer: MiST on Terasic DE10-nano board.

Postby Sorgelig » Sun Jun 25, 2017 9:53 am

NegSol wrote:However on the SD Card Installer Linux of the MISTer I get no USB at all. Strange - right?

did you try only one HUB or several different hubs? Did you connect the HUB before you power DE10 or after?

Newsdee wrote:Is the arduino connector independent from the GPIO? If so... that might be a convenient place to put a small LCD 320x240 screen and make a portable system :) Here's a small recap of where things could go, from what has been mentioned so far (click for larger version):

Lower part (on picture) of arduino header is covered by I/O board. Since there are no GPIO on that side of arduino header, there is no problem to cover it. But standard Arduino shield won't fit already.
On the upper part of Arduino header 3 GPIOs are occupied by SDRAM board.
Still 13 Arduino GPIOs are available, but will require a custom connection.

Although a small LCD looks fun at the first sight, there won't be much usage of it.
It's better to try to fit DE10 into Pi-top: https://pi-top.com/product/pi-top
Not sure if additional space around Pi will allow to insert the DE10. But this will be more useful than strange brick with crappy LCD.

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Re: MiSTer: MiST on Terasic DE10-nano board.

Postby NegSol » Sun Jun 25, 2017 10:13 am

I tried 4 different hubs (all are working with the default terasic linux). None of them worked with the MISTer core. It appears that both linux use different USB initialization steps, as the terasic ones are also quiet slower compared to your linux. Again, I have not ruled out faulty board, but it is strange to see it working with the default linux.

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Re: MiSTer: MiST on Terasic DE10-nano board.

Postby Newsdee » Sun Jun 25, 2017 11:22 am

Sorgelig wrote:this will be more useful than strange brick with crappy LCD.

:lol: Good point, best to use a nice LCD screen via the VGA out for example.

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Re: MiSTer: MiST on Terasic DE10-nano board.

Postby Sorgelig » Sun Jun 25, 2017 11:24 am

That's look strange.. I have 3 different hubs - all of them are working fine. Also i have friend with DE10-nano and his hub also works with my Linux.
May be we need to wait for more users to get more statistic.

In the mean time i've rewrote part of ZX core. Now it doesn't require SDRAM board.

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Re: MiSTer: MiST on Terasic DE10-nano board.

Postby Sorgelig » Sun Jun 25, 2017 11:27 am

Newsdee wrote:
Sorgelig wrote:this will be more useful than strange brick with crappy LCD.

:lol: Good point, best to use a nice LCD screen via the VGA out for example.

i have around 5" LCD with HDMI input. It even powered from HDMI, so only single cable is required.

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Re: MiSTer: MiST on Terasic DE10-nano board.

Postby ex68k » Sun Jun 25, 2017 1:03 pm

@ Sorgelig: don't know if it a stupid question, but you're writing on your web page:

"Although DE10-nano has fast DDR3 memory, it cannot be used to emulate a retro EDO DRAM due to a high latency and shared usage from ARM side. So, SDR SDRAM on daughter board is required for most cores to emulate a retro memory."

Did you try already, or is it just a guess?

I know it wouldn't be easy, but then you have also the HDMI connected on the DDR3, which would allow much nicer resolutions and handling of newer monitors. Yes, and porting of the other MIST software would be also a pain in the neck, but isn't it worth it?

Thanks!

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Re: MiSTer: MiST on Terasic DE10-nano board.

Postby Sorgelig » Sun Jun 25, 2017 2:01 pm

ex68k wrote:Did you try already, or is it just a guess?

may be it's just for fun i've went through 6 versions of SDRAM board and spent a lot of money instead of try on board DDR3.

ex68k wrote:I know it wouldn't be easy, but then you have also the HDMI connected on the DDR3, which would allow much nicer resolutions and handling of newer monitors. Yes, and porting of the other MIST software would be also a pain in the neck, but isn't it worth it?

every my core outputs in 1280x720p60


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