MiSTer: MiST on Terasic DE10-nano board.

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Re: MiSTer: MiST on Terasic DE10-nano board.

Postby ijor » Tue Aug 22, 2017 4:25 am

Sorgelig wrote:
ijor wrote:Actually, in one of the most expensive Altera dev boards, it mentions that a heatsink is normally not needed, except only on extreme conditions or when using engineering samples.

There are different Cyclone V chips. Some versions have no HPS like Cyclone V GX - and it almost doesn't produce the heat. Other versions like Cyclone V SE used in DE10-nano has HPS on-board - so it produces the heat due to this HPS (ARM CPU).


I know, but no, that board has a Cyclone V SOC part. Same part as the one in the DE10-nano but in addition it has transceivers. It's a rather expensive board at $1.800: https://www.altera.com/products/boards_ ... v-soc.html

MiSTer Linux already uses a single core only. Another core is turned off ... i didn't explore the ability to change the CPU speed as ARM CPU in Cyclone lacks PM. Probably it's possible, but it will definitely will affect the performance. ARM side uses Linux ...


An idea ... It might be worth trying to enable both cores but use a lower CPU clock frequency, say, 600 MHz. You will probably get about the same performance as you have now with a single core at max speed, but power consumption (and then heat) would be significantly lower. Altera has a tool that let you estimate power with different CPU configurations.

For very big projects like ao486 occupying ~85% of FPGA it's not possible. ao486 is pretty extreme case, actually. I have to spend up to half day to compile it. Every compilation takes around 1h30m and not always successful.


Ouch, has to be really a monster to take 85% in such big FPGA. Can you post a compilation report? What you mean it doesn't always succeed? It can't fit the design at all? It doesn't meet timing? Or what?

For such huge projects the non free Quartus version makes a big difference. It has several compilation optimizations that are not available in the free edition. Unfortunately it is very expensive unless you have it at work or a special University license.

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Re: MiSTer: MiST on Terasic DE10-nano board.

Postby Sorgelig » Tue Aug 22, 2017 10:08 am

ijor wrote:An idea ... It might be worth trying to enable both cores but use a lower CPU clock frequency, say, 600 MHz. You will probably get about the same performance as you have now with a single core at max speed, but power consumption (and then heat) would be significantly lower. Altera has a tool that let you estimate power with different CPU configurations.

Project is open source. You can take it and experiment. That's how you can help to project.

ijor wrote:Ouch, has to be really a monster to take 85% in such big FPGA. Can you post a compilation report? What you mean it doesn't always succeed? It can't fit the design at all? It doesn't meet timing? Or what?

ao486 occupies ~35K ALM. Fitter fails at the routing stage which is most time consuming phase. Since it's impossible to control the placement, it's always lottery - will it compile or fail even after small change of code.

ijor wrote:For such huge projects the non free Quartus version makes a big difference. It has several compilation optimizations that are not available in the free edition. Unfortunately it is very expensive unless you have it at work or a special University license.

i use full version of Quartus. It doesn't provide anything significantly improving compilation. Using multiple CPU cores for compilation affects only synthesis and analyze part which takes only 10% of the whole compilation time. Routing which takes around 1 hour is single thread process and cannot use more than 1 CPU core.
Full version also provides splitting to partitions which also useless for such big project where splitting to parts will only occupy a larger area and will have more chance to fail in compilation.

As i've wrote above, it's open source. If you can help then you are welcome. It's easier to provide hypothetical suggestions than real code improvement.
I'm not a professional at FPGA programming. So, you (and anyone else) are welcome to improve the cores.

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Re: MiSTer: MiST on Terasic DE10-nano board.

Postby NegSol » Tue Aug 22, 2017 4:59 pm

azesmbog wrote:Just to update the "statistics".. :-)
Test project "Hello MiSTer" - classic VGA generator.
DE10_VGA_20170730.zip
Pacman
pacman_20170729.zip


I like the Pacman core :)

Any chance for you to share your sources with us? I know it will be based on the MiST source but it is always helpful for beginners (like me) to see different sources. :angel:

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Re: MiSTer: MiST on Terasic DE10-nano board.

Postby Gehstock » Tue Aug 22, 2017 5:12 pm

Will Port my Mist Ports to Mister, still waiting for my IO Board PCB ordered from PCBWay.
First Core is Galaga https://github.com/Gehstock/Mister. HDMI will not work at this Time (problem with Pixel Clock)

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Re: MiSTer: MiST on Terasic DE10-nano board.

Postby Sorgelig » Tue Aug 22, 2017 5:28 pm

Gehstock wrote:Will Port my Mist Ports to Mister, still waiting for my IO Board PCB ordered from PCBWay.
First Core is Galaga https://github.com/Gehstock/Mister. HDMI will not work at this Time (problem with Pixel Clock)

Use my framework from one of my cores. It has scaler which takes any resolution with any pixel clock and makes standard HDMI output.
Take, for example ZX core, and put your core as an "emu" entity. You will find emu has very similar to MiST signals. That's where ported cores usually should be connected.

I plan to write a porting guide sometime later.

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Re: MiSTer: MiST on Terasic DE10-nano board.

Postby NegSol » Tue Aug 22, 2017 5:32 pm

Gehstock wrote:Will Port my Mist Ports to Mister, still waiting for my IO Board PCB ordered from PCBWay.
First Core is Galaga https://github.com/Gehstock/Mister. HDMI will not work at this Time (problem with Pixel Clock)


Great news! Looking forward to it! Cheers :cheers:

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Re: MiSTer: MiST on Terasic DE10-nano board.

Postby Gehstock » Tue Aug 22, 2017 5:55 pm

Please someone Test VGA

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Re: MiSTer: MiST on Terasic DE10-nano board.

Postby Jimjans » Tue Aug 22, 2017 6:35 pm

Gehstock wrote:Please someone Test VGA
I have tested the galaga core it is working but the picture is very dark...

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Re: MiSTer: MiST on Terasic DE10-nano board.

Postby Gehstock » Tue Aug 22, 2017 6:53 pm

Thanks

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Re: MiSTer: MiST on Terasic DE10-nano board.

Postby azesmbog » Wed Aug 23, 2017 9:44 am

NegSol wrote:Any chance for you to share your sources with us?

There is always a chance!
Some HDMI cores, some only VGA.
Сорри :-)
http://rgho.st/6mxlrszZL
http://rgho.st/8FLDrvysx

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Re: MiSTer: MiST on Terasic DE10-nano board.

Postby Newsdee » Wed Aug 23, 2017 9:48 am

Is it me, or are the ZX Spectrum and Sam Coupe core are missing sound via HDMI?
Genesis core works fine though.

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Re: MiSTer: MiST on Terasic DE10-nano board.

Postby toromand » Wed Aug 23, 2017 9:50 am

azesmbog wrote:
NegSol wrote:Any chance for you to share your sources with us?

There is always a chance!
Some HDMI cores, some only VGA.
Сорри :-)
http://rgho.st/6mxlrszZL
http://rgho.st/8FLDrvysx

Great news!
Hopefully someone will jump in to HDMI - enable those VGA cores if possible. I guess there will be lots of people using HDMI-only setup for various reasons...

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Re: MiSTer: MiST on Terasic DE10-nano board.

Postby Sorgelig » Wed Aug 23, 2017 10:14 am

Newsdee wrote:Is it me, or are the ZX Spectrum and Sam Coupe core are missing sound via HDMI?
Genesis core works fine though.

why i should release the cores without HDMI audio?

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Re: MiSTer: MiST on Terasic DE10-nano board.

Postby Newsdee » Wed Aug 23, 2017 1:47 pm

Sorgelig wrote:
Newsdee wrote:Is it me, or are the ZX Spectrum and Sam Coupe core are missing sound via HDMI?
Genesis core works fine though.

why i should release the cores without HDMI audio?

It's odd, it works fine on the TV but my capture card doesn't seem to like the audio on them. If there's anything different compared to the Genesis core, it might be a clue. Not a big deal except I can't as easily capture a nice video for them :)

Another odd thing I noticed is USB joysticks doesn't seem to work with the NES core; I can map it fine but then they are not responding. Something about autofire pops up, maybe there's some kind of interference.

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Re: MiSTer: MiST on Terasic DE10-nano board.

Postby azesmbog » Wed Aug 23, 2017 1:59 pm

Newsdee wrote:Something about autofire pops up, maybe there's some kind of interference.

So I'm not alone in the Universe!
What model of joystick?

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Re: MiSTer: MiST on Terasic DE10-nano board.

Postby Gehstock » Wed Aug 23, 2017 2:04 pm

I am not sure about the IO Board Patch

is this the Right Pin
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Re: MiSTer: MiST on Terasic DE10-nano board.

Postby Sorgelig » Wed Aug 23, 2017 2:25 pm

Gehstock wrote:is this the Right Pin

right.

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Re: MiSTer: MiST on Terasic DE10-nano board.

Postby Gehstock » Wed Aug 23, 2017 2:36 pm

Thank you

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Re: MiSTer: MiST on Terasic DE10-nano board.

Postby Newsdee » Wed Aug 23, 2017 4:34 pm

azesmbog wrote:So I'm not alone in the Universe!
What model of joystick?

I have the Buffalo SNES USB controller

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Re: MiSTer: MiST on Terasic DE10-nano board.

Postby NegSol » Wed Aug 23, 2017 4:51 pm

SNES Buffalo USB Controller worked for me in all cores. But it is true that it has random directional pad hits that are registered from time to (maybe every five second or so) the auto fire is a new MiSTer function. It is also triggered by a combination involving the d-pad. So maybe there is a connection.

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Re: MiSTer: MiST on Terasic DE10-nano board.

Postby Sorgelig » Wed Aug 23, 2017 5:32 pm

Newsdee wrote:Another odd thing I noticed is USB joysticks doesn't seem to work with the NES core; I can map it fine but then they are not responding. Something about autofire pops up, maybe there's some kind of interference.

I think, you can investigate the problem by yourself when you will get more familiar with MiSTer.
I hope other developers will jump to project and provide improvement. I have 3 different game pads and all of them are working. I cannot fix problem if i don't have it. Or at least i need more info to understand where is the problem.
Simple report "it doesn't work" meaningless except to reply "then don't use this game pad". So, i hope more devs with different hardware will be involved.

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Re: MiSTer: MiST on Terasic DE10-nano board.

Postby Gehstock » Wed Aug 23, 2017 5:37 pm

azesmbog wrote:
NegSol wrote:Any chance for you to share your sources with us?

There is always a chance!
Some HDMI cores, some only VGA.
Сорри :-)
http://rgho.st/6mxlrszZL
http://rgho.st/8FLDrvysx


Can we Port River Raid for the Mist?

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Re: MiSTer: MiST on Terasic DE10-nano board.

Postby Sorgelig » Wed Aug 23, 2017 5:40 pm

Gehstock wrote:Can we Port River Raid for the Mist?

What's the meaning behind your question?

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Re: MiSTer: MiST on Terasic DE10-nano board.

Postby Gehstock » Wed Aug 23, 2017 5:45 pm

In the Arcade Archive was a Mister Version of a RiverRaid Clone, have found the Source

Edit: Quick Port (no Mist Functions and Controls)
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Last edited by Gehstock on Wed Aug 23, 2017 5:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: MiSTer: MiST on Terasic DE10-nano board.

Postby Sorgelig » Wed Aug 23, 2017 5:55 pm

Gehstock wrote:Is anyone interested on it?

It's not correct question. If you can port and willing to port - then simply port. Some people like one retro system, other people like other system. More cores - more choice.


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