Mister SNES port to MIST possible?

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Re: Mister SNES port to MIST possible?

Postby slingshot » Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:17 pm

Televicious wrote:Yea I was in lorom mode, it works perfect it test 2 release and even loads in the original release, just not test 4 for some reason, just black screen after loading. Though I was trying ultraman in both test 2 and 4 releases to see the graphics glitches in background were gone. They were gone, but now game is randomly resetting during play. Not sure what would cause that.


Probably the big size (or the stressed SDRAM access) makes the core a bit unstable - what works on my MiST, not necessary works on yours. You can get the source, and try to compile with different seed or SDRAM clock phase shift value. Most likely one particular setting will work better on your device.

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Re: Mister SNES port to MIST possible?

Postby Televicious » Wed Sep 18, 2019 2:26 am

I'm using Lotharek's 1.3 with the MIDI addon. Well, I'll test version 3 more, maybe that's the most stable. V1 was pretty solid aside from the small issue with Pilotwings and some graphical issues. I've tried to compile core's before, but it never quite worked right for me on windows. Have to get another linux machine going.

Tested 3, same resetting issues. V1 is the best, plus best OSD. Though keeping V2/3 for pilotwings and 4 for save states.

Thanks again for the port. It's amazing work, regardless of the limitations of the MiST.

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Re: Mister SNES port to MIST possible?

Postby sardine » Wed Sep 18, 2019 6:02 am

for me test 4 is a lot of black screens,, if i load the same rom 3 or 4 times it then works.

test 3 Pilotwings load every time but test 4 its 1 in 4 times and when it does load it can on occasion have corrupt music.

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Re: Mister SNES port to MIST possible?

Postby arty » Wed Sep 18, 2019 7:19 am

I'm happy and highly positive about heroic adaptation of SNES core for MiST by Slingshot.

I have MiST ver1.3 too, so I'm on the same symptoms page with user Sardine via recent SNES core test versions 4 and 5. By the way, version 5 doesn't load games at all on Lotharek's MiST 1.3. Games start and look stable on ver4 only after few reloading attempts by reset button.
Our MiST 1.3 from Lotharek has Hynix SDRAM H57V2562GTR-75C (its datasheet https://www.skhynix.com/product/filedata/fileDownload.do?seq=4558) on board, it seems problem with stability in suitable SDRAM timings for core task.
It would be great if such universal timings exist for SDRAM "overclocking" for different MiST versions. Anyway we'll test'em and share feedback with you.

Fantastic job from MiST&MiSTer developers community !
Thank You guys :cheers:
Last edited by arty on Wed Sep 18, 2019 8:13 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Mister SNES port to MIST possible?

Postby lips2k15 » Wed Sep 18, 2019 7:43 am

Hi guys, done some testing - all NTSC roms... Batman Returns freezes at first screen of copyright text, Super Ghouls and Ghosts working but with a few sound glitches, Super Mario world mostly working but has a few sound glitches, Super Mario All stars freezes at the title screen and there seems to be some kind of reset bug where when a rom is loaded it dosnt reset the SNES properly? I only had luck getting roms to run if I powered off the MIST before loading the SNES core. I will test more roms and get back to you but so far this is freaking epic!!!

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Re: Mister SNES port to MIST possible?

Postby MasterOfGizmo » Wed Sep 18, 2019 12:01 pm

This is so unf***ing believable :-)

I would never have expected to play super mario world on the MIST one day ... But I just did :D
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Re: Mister SNES port to MIST possible?

Postby slingshot » Wed Sep 18, 2019 12:12 pm

arty wrote:
Our MiST 1.3 from Lotharek has Hynix SDRAM H57V2562GTR-75C (its datasheet https://www.skhynix.com/product/filedata/fileDownload.do?seq=4558) on board


I have the same. It's even better than the values in the Micron datasheet, e.g. tRC = 63ns, the core uses 62.5ns, that shouldn't cause any problem. There's another small issue, which is not satisfied in every case, but that would require to add +4 cycles to the SDRAM controller, which surely would be too slow then. But as it works mostly on my device, I couldn't really help more. If you can compile yourself, you can play with the SDRAM clock shift value, which is -3ns now, you could try various values from -1.5 to -3.5, and see if it helps.
If it works after resetting, then it could be the system state- sdram controller state difference, but it's hard to find the exact state synchronization needed, since all SNES components are running asynchronously to each other (and even the cycles lengths are dynamically changing).

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Re: Mister SNES port to MIST possible?

Postby slingshot » Wed Sep 18, 2019 12:18 pm

MasterOfGizmo wrote:This is so unf***ing believable :-)

I would never have expected to play super mario world on the MIST one day ... But I just did :D


You're welcome! But if you play too much, we'll never have a new FDC for the ST :)

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Re: Mister SNES port to MIST possible?

Postby arty » Wed Sep 18, 2019 12:51 pm

slingshot wrote:If it works after resetting, then it could be the system state- sdram controller state difference, but it's hard to find the exact state synchronization needed, since all SNES components are running asynchronously to each other (and even the cycles lengths are dynamically changing).

Exactly, it works with stability after resetting(sometimes core needs it twice in a row). Version 5 is enigmatic for me(incompatible SDRAM timings?) , whatever I tried to load - no success. Currently, core ver4 is preferable for me on Lotharek's MiST v1.3: even massive Chrono Trigger works without problems(crossed fingers) :angel:
Thank you for explanation.

Could you kindly clarify how to use option of Load *.SAV Save RAM of game process? Thanks :)
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Re: Mister SNES port to MIST possible?

Postby slingshot » Wed Sep 18, 2019 5:34 pm

arty wrote:
Could you kindly clarify how to use option of Load *.SAV Save RAM of game process? Thanks :)


The same way as in the Genesis/SMS core.

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Re: Mister SNES port to MIST possible?

Postby Higgy » Thu Sep 19, 2019 7:09 am

Excellent work as always Slingshot :cheers:
Looks great on RGB CRT
Neo Geo and PC486 cores next :lol:

What does 'blend' do?
For info : Using Test3. Test4b and Test5 not loading games on my MiST v1.2. (I did have issues on original Archie and MSX Cores some years ago when those Cores used high ram speeds.)

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Re: Mister SNES port to MIST possible?

Postby DrOG » Thu Sep 19, 2019 8:16 am

Higgy wrote:...
Neo Geo and PC486 cores next :lol:...

AFAIK ao486 is too big for MiST is aspect of LEs, but robinsonb5 (the porter of the minimig, PC Engine and MSX cores) is currently working on migrating Next186 core to Turbo Chameleon 64. I think that should fit in case of MiST too...

Original project:
https://opencores.org/projects/next186_soc_pc

Source:
https://github.com/robinsonb5/Next186_SoC

Downloadable first pre-alpha release for TC64:
http://retroramblings.net/snapshots/Nex ... -09-15.zip

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Re: Mister SNES port to MIST possible?

Postby MasterOfGizmo » Thu Sep 19, 2019 11:40 am

slingshot wrote:You're welcome! But if you play too much, we'll never have a new FDC for the ST :)


Yeah ... I know ...

Anyway, the V4 runs super reliable on one of my first dev boards. It also runs on one of the later lotharek boards i have. But on that one it doesn't always start and multiple rom load/reset cycles are needed. Once successful the roms runs nicely. Since this only happens on the newer MIST it may be some SDRAM initialization thing ... (duh, i sound like a user 8O )
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Re: Mister SNES port to MIST possible?

Postby slingshot » Thu Sep 19, 2019 11:56 am

MasterOfGizmo wrote:
slingshot wrote:You're welcome! But if you play too much, we'll never have a new FDC for the ST :)


Yeah ... I know ...

Anyway, the V4 runs super reliable on one of my first dev boards. It also runs on one of the later lotharek boards i have. But on that one it doesn't always start and multiple rom load/reset cycles are needed. Once successful the roms runs nicely. Since this only happens on the newer MIST it may be some SDRAM initialization thing ... (duh, i sound like a user 8O )


Well, I suspect the SNES clock -> SDRAM clock domain transition. As the SDRAM clock is 6 times the SNES clock, the address signal (or part of it) could arrive later than the request. And the fact that most of the RAM signals of the core is combinatorial, not registered makes it even worse. Of course registering them in the 21MHz clock will delay them too much. I don't think it's the SDRAM controller, since if a game starts (maybe after several resets), it's stable for me, too - at least on my Lotharek MiST 1.3.

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Re: Mister SNES port to MIST possible?

Postby squid4 » Thu Sep 19, 2019 12:53 pm

I find test5 stable on my Lotharek MiST 1.3. (I think it's v1.3!?) - run games for over an hour without issues. Same problem as Masterofgizmo ( :angel: ) that it can take several attempts to get a game working on test4 & test5. Haven't noticed any graphics corruption in this version but I've been occupied with trying to get the SRAM Backup/restore working...

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Re: Mister SNES port to MIST possible?

Postby DistWave » Thu Sep 19, 2019 1:23 pm

My output:
test1: glitches and corrupted graphics everywhere
test2 and test3: nearly perfect
test 4b: some glitches and hangs
test5: doesn't run any game

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Re: Mister SNES port to MIST possible?

Postby lips2k15 » Fri Sep 20, 2019 7:59 am

Test 5 hasnt crashed once - and the games that wouldnt work on test 4b now work... no sound glitches now and am not needing to power off the mist to load roms.

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Re: Mister SNES port to MIST possible?

Postby slingshot » Fri Sep 20, 2019 8:00 am

@MasterOfGizmo just captured this:
glitch.jpg


That's why sending unregistered signals to the SDRAM clock domain is not a good idea - every "noise" in the source signal, which are invisible at 21MHz can be seen as a glitch @128 MHz.
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Re: Mister SNES port to MIST possible?

Postby vebxenon » Fri Sep 20, 2019 8:44 am

DistWave wrote:My output:
test1: glitches and corrupted graphics everywhere
test2 and test3: nearly perfect
test 4b: some glitches and hangs
test5: doesn't run any game


Same here. I'm going back to Test 3. I have a Mist 1.2 from 2015 with MIDI addon.
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Re: Mister SNES port to MIST possible?

Postby MasterOfGizmo » Fri Sep 20, 2019 10:17 am

slingshot wrote:@MasterOfGizmo just captured this:
glitch.jpg

That's why sending unregistered signals to the SDRAM clock domain is not a good idea - every "noise" in the source signal, which are invisible at 21MHz can be seen as a glitch @128 MHz.


Indeed. Many cores have this in the video signals but there it will never reach the screen.

Sometimes one can register some of the combinatorial input signals. This will not reduce the spike completely but it may reduce them. Or you may also try a second, slightly delayed 21Mhz clock used to registering something. But yeah, it's a nasty problem and these solutions would all be somewhat ugly ...

BTW: This also gives an explanation why this affects different RAM brands differently. Their input capacitance will e.g. vary and the effect of spikes will thus also vary. Have you tried reducing the RAMs driving current? Reducing it may also reduce spikes but of course this will also have a negative effect on signal setup times.
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Re: Mister SNES port to MIST possible?

Postby slingshot » Fri Sep 20, 2019 12:21 pm

MasterOfGizmo wrote:
BTW: This also gives an explanation why this affects different RAM brands differently. Their input capacitance will e.g. vary and the effect of spikes will thus also vary. Have you tried reducing the RAMs driving current? Reducing it may also reduce spikes but of course this will also have a negative effect on signal setup times.


Just to be clear: these captured glitches were in the SDRAM controller. I don't know if they reach the SDRAM. The SDRAM signals already registered, and the chip itself driven from (fast) output registers. But probably got some wrong data. Yeah, reducing the maximum current makes the setup slacks bigger. Maybe it can be circumvented by more phase shift to the SDRAM clock, but as this setup works in other cores with the same high clock, I've decided to leave it alone.
Now I've tried another solution: register the address/request signals at the negative edge of the 21MHz clock. It's only has a half-clock delay compared to registering them at the positive edge. My tests shows this works: I could load Wolfenstein 3D successfully 10 out of 10 times. Hope it's the same on your devices :)
https://github.com/gyurco/SNES_MiSTer/r ... /tag/test6

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Re: Mister SNES port to MIST possible?

Postby vebxenon » Fri Sep 20, 2019 12:31 pm

slingshot wrote:. Hope it's the same on your devices :)
https://github.com/gyurco/SNES_MiSTer/r ... /tag/test6


Do you have the binary? :P
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Re: Mister SNES port to MIST possible?

Postby slingshot » Fri Sep 20, 2019 12:41 pm

vebxenon wrote:
slingshot wrote:. Hope it's the same on your devices :)
https://github.com/gyurco/SNES_MiSTer/r ... /tag/test6


Do you have the binary? :P

Sorry, forgot to upload. Now it's there.

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Re: Mister SNES port to MIST possible?

Postby vebxenon » Fri Sep 20, 2019 12:46 pm

slingshot wrote:
vebxenon wrote:
slingshot wrote:. Hope it's the same on your devices :)
https://github.com/gyurco/SNES_MiSTer/r ... /tag/test6


Do you have the binary? :P

Sorry, forgot to upload. Now it's there.


Ready to test :D
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Re: Mister SNES port to MIST possible?

Postby vebxenon » Fri Sep 20, 2019 1:00 pm

Wow :D :cheers: . Now every game I've tested loads well.

Thanks very much!! :cheers: :cheers:
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