New SID 8580 implementation for the C64 core

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Chris23235
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New SID 8580 implementation for the C64 core

Postby Chris23235 » Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:41 pm

Rayne has written a new 8580 implementation for the C64 core, I think it sounds very good.

Original post:

https://mist-fpga.net/viewtopic.php?f=1 ... 0719#p1992
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Re: New SID 8580 implementation for the C64 core

Postby ericgus » Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:03 am

Oh nice!

Thanks for the update!

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Re: New SID 8580 implementation for the C64 core

Postby DanyPPC » Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:22 am

I tested it with Turbo Out Run intro, but it sounds like old core.
Even with the following pokes:

POKE 54297,255 and POKE 54298,255

Which are the games where this new SID update make a difference ?

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Re: New SID 8580 implementation for the C64 core

Postby Chris23235 » Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:51 am

I think the startup sound in Giana Sisters sounded more like I remember it and the percussion in the ingame music sounded a little bit less tinny than on the old core.

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Re: New SID 8580 implementation for the C64 core

Postby Sorgelig » Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:53 pm

Ask him if he is willing to share the SID sources

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Re: New SID 8580 implementation for the C64 core

Postby DanyPPC » Thu Jul 12, 2018 4:17 pm

Chris23235 wrote:I think the startup sound in Giana Sisters sounded more like I remember it and the percussion in the ingame music sounded a little bit less tinny than on the old core.


Giana Sisters intro sound is designed for old 6581 SID.

Try it on a real old C64 with SID 6581R4 or SID 6581R4AR

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Re: New SID 8580 implementation for the C64 core

Postby arty » Thu Jul 12, 2018 4:46 pm

Thanks Chris for sharing such nice news!
Special thanks for Rayne, Gehstock, Sorgelig and every developer who still polishes FPGA-code for reimplementing of legendary C64 for rest of us!

I've just checked collection of modern tracks from LMan and psych8580 for 8580, recent demos and they sound fairy well to be truth at all(especially in comparison with youtube records from real C64).
MUS1K from 4-Mat of Ate Bit, Orb sounds respectively good too. Sounds Of The Amiga music disks are playing addictively now.
Metamorphosis, Legacy and Melonade by Dane are equally fantastic to sound perception from real C64. Valentine? What about Black Burning Heart? Check'em by yourself :)
Yeah, some LMan's tracks in PRGs output white hiss only, it needs clarification. Maybe they need some configurations with pokes before run, maybe someone will spot the light on this hiss from core side.
Just few strokes about LMan's "8580 only"&technically sly tracks on this version of core:
Jeroen Tel and LMan - 11 Heaven = OK
Jeroen Tel and LMan - Skypeople = OK
LMan - 808 Love = OK
LMan - Age We Aceeed = OK
LMan - Boombox Alley = OK
LMan - Confusion 2015 Remix (cover from Blade movie) = OK
LMan - Could Be Cool = OK
LMan - Hell Yeah = OK
LMan - Hi Fi Sky = HISS, brilliant track on real C64 too
LMan - Mellowhouse = OK
LMan - Milk & House = OK
LMan - MONOFAIL = OK
LMan - My Club House = OK
LMan - Rastaline Dub = HISS
LMan - Robot Sensuality = HISS, brilliant track on real C64 too
LMan - Vortex = HISS, brilliant track on real C64
Rapture and LMan - Giana Sisters DS = HISS, brilliant track on real C64 too
It would be great if developers take a look to these tracks with HISS. By the way, OK == FAB.

Anyway it's huge step close to authentic sound of real C64. Just remember where C64 core was few years ago.
Well done :D

P.S. Thanks. Now I know how SUMMER'18 sounds for me: coreSIDent with 8-bit !
Make you favor, take a break and you'll find out how great & beautiful scene on C64 is.
Last edited by arty on Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:59 pm, edited 10 times in total.
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Re: New SID 8580 implementation for the C64 core

Postby vebxenon » Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:07 pm

:cheers: Good news. I'll back home on sunday so I'll test it :-)
Just a computer and videogame lover :)

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Re: New SID 8580 implementation for the C64 core

Postby DanyPPC » Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:39 pm

Chris23235 wrote:I think the startup sound in Giana Sisters sounded more like I remember it and the percussion in the ingame music sounded a little bit less tinny than on the old core.


Confirm, there are good improvements on sound in Giana Sisters.

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Re: New SID 8580 implementation for the C64 core

Postby DrOG » Fri Jul 13, 2018 3:24 am

Thank you!!! :cheers:

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Re: New SID 8580 implementation for the C64 core

Postby vebxenon » Sat Jul 21, 2018 11:59 am

Hello:

I'm trying to play The Great Giana Sisters, but when I push up in my USB pad (I've tested 2 pads), instead of jumping, game gets paused... do you have the same problem? :shrug: :shrug: :shrug:
Just a computer and videogame lover :)

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Re: New SID 8580 implementation for the C64 core

Postby DanyPPC » Sun Jul 22, 2018 12:12 pm

Same here !

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Re: New SID 8580 implementation for the C64 core

Postby arty » Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:51 pm

I just want to share my further musical experience with current C64 core plus 8580R5 SID code from first post here.
A few days ago, I listened to new tracks from various C64 musicians and one nice track had problem with own player in *.prg on MiST:
Jammer & MCH - Mario Is Dead https://csdb.dk/release/?id=158648
So I asked myself "Isn't it strange?.. previous one from this guy was flawless" and decided to do a little investigation about "What if the problem wasn't with Rayne's 8580R5-reimplementation at all?"
It was big surprise to find out that current version of new SID code in C64 core is working for this track without any problems, I just tried it with help of another C64 Music Collection disk:

No-Skip Mix (2017 Edition) by Mayday! https://csdb.dk/release/?id=160990
Image

My investigation led me to highly recommended C64 musical disk with wonderful examples of rich & different sound of 8580 via creative legacy of highly skilled and motivated musicians of C64 scene nowadays. So enjoy it too!
Last edited by arty on Tue Jul 24, 2018 9:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New SID 8580 implementation for the C64 core

Postby DanyPPC » Tue Jul 24, 2018 4:06 pm

It would be nice if you could implement the emulation of the original SID6581 :angel:

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Re: New SID 8580 implementation for the C64 core

Postby JungleJack » Wed Jul 25, 2018 8:57 pm

Thanks! I will be trying this out tomorrow.

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Re: New SID 8580 implementation for the C64 core

Postby Sheldon » Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:56 am

Thank you !!!

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Re: New SID 8580 implementation for the C64 core

Postby arty » Mon Jul 30, 2018 11:41 pm

DanyPPC wrote:It would be nice if you could implement the emulation of the original SID6581 :angel:

I'm simple mortal and user like you but maybe a little bit curious. All credits goes for Rayne for NEW SID(8580R5) reimplementation. So just ask him at
https://mist-fpga.net/viewtopic.php?f=1 ... 4bd6bd0719
To the best of my memory, there is 6581 in previous version of C64-core from other developers.

Another great example of unique and diverse sound of SID8580 from modern demo

Monumentum by Hitmen


By the way, those audio-visual achievements from demo above are nice on MiST too.

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Re: New SID 8580 implementation for the C64 core

Postby Sorgelig » Tue Jul 31, 2018 1:29 am

Another one piggybacking on open source and releasing binary only pretending that the whole core is his only work.

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Re: New SID 8580 implementation for the C64 core

Postby vebxenon » Tue Jul 31, 2018 3:03 pm

Chris23235 wrote:Rayne has written a new 8580 implementation for the C64 core, I think it sounds very good.

Original post:

https://mist-fpga.net/viewtopic.php?f=1 ... 0719#p1992


Will the source be released?
Just a computer and videogame lover :)

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Re: New SID 8580 implementation for the C64 core

Postby arty » Wed Aug 01, 2018 8:54 pm

Sorgelig wrote:Another one piggybacking on open source and releasing binary only pretending that the whole core is his only work.
vebxenon wrote:
Chris23235 wrote:Rayne has written a new 8580 implementation for the C64 core, I think it sounds very good.
Original post:
https://mist-fpga.net/viewtopic.php?f=1 ... 0719#p1992

Will the source be released?


Your position of open-source developer is understandable. For doctors, it's like development of vaccine for chosen people without possibility to reproduce it again for the rest. Yep, such policy is dead end. But please don't hurry up with conclusions.
Latest news from Rayne https://mist-fpga.net/viewtopic.php?p=1999#p1999 was about that his code needs cleaning up. By the way, he hasn't Github account yet.
Just give him a time for it and maybe try to help him with preparation to transfer his code to Github. It seems, there are English speaking German users here to assistance with it. If I could to speed up such things...
MiST is EOL now but with big enough install base, still open-source FPGA-platform as your MiSTer too. It would be great to have Rayne's code of SID8580 that both(and other) platforms will get benefits from it and existence of new versions of C64 core has a chance(with future fixes of work of multi-disk demos|games etc).
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Re: New SID 8580 implementation for the C64 core

Postby arty » Mon Aug 06, 2018 11:37 am

Sorgelig and Gehstock there is news from Rayne via https://mist-fpga.net/viewtopic.php?p=1999#p2052
His SID8580R5 reimplementation can be used as patch to local copy of Gehstock's Repo "Mist_FPGA" with folder "Commodore - 64_MiST".
This patch, state about source and short description to patch were written and attached at page by link above.
One step closer to open source community! :D

Just reposted in case something is missing in time.
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Re: New SID 8580 implementation for the C64 core

Postby Sorgelig » Mon Aug 06, 2018 12:49 pm

Great!

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Re: New SID 8580 implementation for the C64 core

Postby Sorgelig » Mon Aug 06, 2018 2:16 pm

Just quickly compiled new SID. Yeah - that's really very similar to 8580 by timbre.
Original one is close to 6581 which i personally like more.
I think it would be good to have a switch between them. Or probably it's possible to use the same SID core with just different filters.

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Re: New SID 8580 implementation for the C64 core

Postby Sorgelig » Mon Aug 06, 2018 2:35 pm

I don't have account on that board and registration is disabled there.
So, tell Rayne thanks from me. It's really very great to share the source code - no matter what is condition of this code.

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Re: New SID 8580 implementation for the C64 core

Postby arty » Mon Aug 06, 2018 3:37 pm

Sorgelig wrote:Just quickly compiled new SID. Yeah - that's really very similar to 8580 by timbre.
Original one is close to 6581 which i personally like more.
I think it would be good to have a switch between them. Or probably it's possible to use the same SID core with just different filters.

Sorgelig, it's nice idea about option-switch in core with choice of OLD SID (6581) and NEW SID (8580R5).
Because Old and New aren't about chronology of FPGA cores, it's about C64 scene legacy and how it was built around. Old one used in classical games plus by few chiptune musicians and New one by over 90% of demoscene groups https://csdb.dk/ Presence of 8580 in demoscene releases is huge.
As for tunes that were composed on C64 with 6581: they sound always different on 8580, it's normal. In addition to this, demoscene works are 8580 only as usual.
It would be great to have such option to switch between both versions of SID (6581 and 8580R5) without option to change Filters. Both SIDs have own filters. So please, don't mix their versions of filters. Historically every SID version has its own unique features and pros|cons too. Just choice of authentic OLD or NEW SID will be enough for C64 users and new comers without confusion how C64 sounds in reality.
I have other preference of SID: 8580R5, because of C64 demoscene. Rayne's reimplementation of it sounds very good in comparison with real C64 with 8580 on board. But I'm sober about both versions. Old SID sounds good in games, New SID shines in demoscene.
Modern C64 users and demosceners have hardware switch-board with both SIDs. In case of MiST or another open-source FPGA platform, it has a sense on level of core too.
There is other possibility with reimplementation code of 6581 and 8580R5. Now you have good chances to realize so called 2SID (or Stereo SID mod). It uses both versions of SID. Just take a look at https://www.lyonlabs.org/commodore/stereo-sid/ , maybe you'll find out it interesting too and someday when stars align...
The best version of thanks for developer in this situation will be inclusion of result of his work in future releases of C64 core. :D
Thanks Rayne, Sorgelig, Gehstock and other developers who make our dreams of C64 core come true!
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