The last MIST

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Sorgelig
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Re: The last MIST

Postby Sorgelig » Sun Jan 21, 2018 5:08 am

From sales point of view, it's not a good idea to announce the end of manufacturing. It should be announce then end of sales when you have no stock anymore.

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Re: The last MIST

Postby Sorgelig » Sun Jan 21, 2018 5:44 am

I think the big hit to FPGA boards (ant ot MiST of course) came from Raspberry Pi. The cost of RPi is just a fraction of custom FPGA board and it can do much more than FPGA does.
Some knowledgeable guy will see the differences between FPGA and ARM, but for generic user who makes the sales is unaware and buy what is cheaper. Just insert the microSD and you get emulators of almost all retro systems with almost no difference from originals while FPGA is far behind in terms of universality.

Even Nintendo jumped to ARM platform for their mini replicas while before ASICs used for that.

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Re: The last MIST

Postby Newsdee » Sun Jan 21, 2018 6:33 am

Sorgelig wrote:Doomed to be buried in dev desk of tinker guy where he clean his table from garbage to show how it works.
That's pretty accurate in my case.... :lol:

The MiST can still be enhanced a bit with analog video options like RCA composite, SCART, and SVideo. It's older standards but would make it more plug and play, especially with CRTs.

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Re: The last MIST

Postby nightshadowpt » Sun Jan 21, 2018 7:54 am

It is always sad to hear about the discontinuing of a great product, but that's how things go in this world.

My main concern is that there is no real replacement for the MiST for end consumers. If you are an enthusiast (and skilled in electronics) you can move on to the MiSTer, but that is technically not a consumer product (as also mentioned in the original post).

I am not sure if I understand Gehstock's reaction. Just because the MiST has been discontinued it does not mean I'll stop using it.
Hell, if you think about it, the whole purpose of this device is to scratch our "retro" itch. Same as I do with original hardware like the Amiga or the ST, I will still be using my MiST many years from now.

Dear Gehstock, why would you delete your repository? That would be akin to having Sega removing all games from the shops as soon as it stopped manufacturing the Megadrive/Genesis.

Your work is highly appreciated by the community, and will continue to be for many, many years. If you think about it, even newcomers to the platform (that will buy the remaining stock from Lotharek, or get a second hand MiST) deserve to be appreciative of your amazing work. Please reconsider this decision as the community is still here for the MiST.

With this being said, I would gladly buy a MiST 2 if it is ever made (however unlikely that seems right now).

Thank you all for this amazing ride...

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Re: The last MIST

Postby MasterOfGizmo » Sun Jan 21, 2018 8:04 am

Maybe some of you misunderstood me. Just the genuine MIST will not be produced any more. And that has nothing to do with open source. It costs money to produce these and you need to sell them to get your money back. Nowadays there are cheaper solutions. These solutions still exist. The clone boards are still there and so is MISTer. The devices are totally fine if you don't care for CE etc.

After all this is a retro community. You should be used to the fact that your hardware is out of production :D And you all still appreciate fixing your old hardware and caring for it. The knowledge is still there nicely organized in repositories ready for anyone to continue. People already did that. That's why the clones exist.

It surprises me that people now start to delete their repositories. But that's their choice. Open source also means that you are free to do that. Sales just dropped and it doesn't make much sense to produce the real thing any more. These things just happen. You wouldn't delete your Atari ST games collection just because Atari goes out of business, would you?

So if you have a broken MIST then please just get in touch with me or Lotharek. We are still there. We just don't produce new boards.
MIST board, FPGA based Atari STE and more: https://github.com/mist-devel/mist-board/wiki

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Re: The last MIST

Postby vebxenon » Sun Jan 21, 2018 8:38 am

MasterOfGizmo wrote:Maybe some of you misunderstood me. Just the genuine MIST will not be produced any more. And that has nothing to do with open source. It costs money to produce these and you need to sell them to get your money back. Nowadays there are cheaper solutions. These solutions still exist. The clone boards are still there and so is MISTer. The devices are totally fine if you don't care for CE etc.

After all this is a retro community. You should be used to the fact that your hardware is out of production :D And you all still appreciate fixing your old hardware and caring for it. The knowledge is still there nicely organized in repositories ready for anyone to continue. People already did that. That's why the clones exist.

It surprises me that people now start to delete their repositories. But that's their choice. Open source also means that you are free to do that. Sales just dropped and it doesn't make much sense to produce the real thing any more. These things just happen. You wouldn't delete your Atari ST games collection just because Atari goes out of business, would you?

So if you have a broken MIST then please just get in touch with me or Lotharek. We are still there. We just don't produce new boards.


Thanks again fot your outstanding work :) . I have a desktop only for MiST.
Just a computer and videogame lover :)

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Re: The last MIST

Postby SchneiderCPC664 » Sun Jan 21, 2018 9:54 am

The MIST is an awesome hardware and easy to use for the end user. Unfortunately there are only few developers with FPGA skills out there and the feedback from the end users to the developers is not overhelming.

The retro market is limited and there is no marketing for the MIST but the MIST community seems not so small to me. I like my MIST very much because this little machine is giving me the greatest retro feeling. It has not built in a fan driven 800 MHz CPU to run old 8 MHz computers!

Yes, the MIST is limited compared to other divices but is this not a challenge for every (real) developer?

I will buy another one and hope the developers will still support the MIST. Long live the MIST! :D

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Re: The last MIST

Postby NegSol » Sun Jan 21, 2018 10:42 am

I already have multiple MiST and am a huge fan and proponent of the FPGA idea. Thanks to Till's great tutorials in a German magazine I even picked up some FPGA development skills myself. I hope the community keeps on running with the MiST idea and will come up with innovative ways of using the resources available to it.
In my view one should not try to argue which FPGA machine is best one but rather look for new ways to bring in more people loving these old machines. I for one will keep on supporting this community :mrgreen:

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Re: The last MIST

Postby kolla » Sun Jan 21, 2018 11:15 am

MasterOfGizmo wrote:It surprises me that people now start to delete their repositories. But that's their choice. Open source also means that you are free to do that.


Actually, not quite - when you have released binaries under GPL, you are supposed to have sources available if a user asks for them.

Anyways - I also want to send a huge THANK YOU!!! for the MiST!!

As I have mentioned, mine is my most used every-day Amiga, it's the system I sit down to when I come home from work, it's the system I use for tinkering with ARexx and shell scripts, old programs etc. It's where I run DPaint and PPaint most. And OctaMED, MusicLine etc. It's the "frontend" to a raspberry pi zero, and via a few shell functions and aliases, I even admin my systems out in the cloud, and maintain k8s clusters from the MiST - crazy yes, but also fun :) Again, a huge THANK YOU!!!
-- kolla

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Re: The last MIST

Postby ijor » Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:07 pm

Wow, it makes me very sad.

Thank you and congratulations, Till. You did a wonderful job. There might be other similar products cheaper, more advanced, and perhaps even better. But it is far easier to improve upon a design or idea. You showed the way.

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Re: The last MIST

Postby DanyPPC » Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:47 pm

I'm very sorry, but a great thank you for the MiST platform which i adore and i continue to use every day because I'm a retro-computer fan.

Hoping in a future MiST2 platform.
:cheers:

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Re: The last MIST

Postby MasterOfGizmo » Sun Jan 21, 2018 3:42 pm

ijor wrote:But it is far easier to improve upon a design or idea. You showed the way.


Actually we built upon the ideas of e.g. the minimig and hopefully more projects based on the MIST will follow. So it's just one step of many.
MIST board, FPGA based Atari STE and more: https://github.com/mist-devel/mist-board/wiki

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Re: The last MIST

Postby farvardin » Sun Jan 21, 2018 4:00 pm

Hi Till, Sorgelig, and all the awesome developers around the FPGA retrocomputing!

Thanks a lot for this, I won't complain about anything, I own a MiST and often use it. When I saw the MiSTer I was interested but it wouldn't give me much more than the MiST can do at the moment (and no case and no midi). I see them as two very different products, for different purposes. I also understand why Sorgelig needed to work on something new.

So well, thanks again. I hope some more MiST will be produced in the future (and MiSTer will continue to improve as well)

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Re: The last MIST

Postby christos » Sun Jan 21, 2018 5:33 pm

I didnt buy a MiST because I couldnt justify spending the money in this time and age.it was on my list of things I wanted though. What I find really sad is that Atari ST users are left without a hardware replacement for their system.

Anyway, thanks for all your work. It is appreciated.
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Re: The last MIST

Postby johey » Sun Jan 21, 2018 5:53 pm

I love the MIST and this is a very sad day. Maybe I should buy another one from the last stock when I still have the chance... Anyway, the good thing is that the source of the firmware and cores is free and open. Perhaps even the hardware design? It means the MIST is not dead. Development will continue as long there are developers interested in perfecting the reimplementation of the old machines. There are other FPGA based platforms out there already which also can make good use of the MIST based cores.

Thank you very much to all involved for the time you have spent with the MIST development, resale and support! You all have made an invaluable effort of preserving our history. I hope you feel you have got something out of it. What you have done does not end here. It has only started.

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Re: The last MIST

Postby Sorgelig » Sun Jan 21, 2018 7:01 pm

christos wrote:What I find really sad is that Atari ST users are left without a hardware replacement for their system.

MiST is still available in the shop. Buy it then. Atari ST sources are available to port to other boards.
FPGA core is not a food - it won't be rotten. You still can continue to use as long as you want.

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Re: The last MIST

Postby icecreamjonsey » Sun Jan 21, 2018 7:49 pm

What did we lose with Gehstock deleting his repositories? If anyone had them backed up I can host on Github indefinitely / forever.

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Re: The last MIST

Postby johey » Sun Jan 21, 2018 8:51 pm

icecreamjonsey wrote:What did we lose with Gehstock deleting his repositories? If anyone had them backed up I can host on Github indefinitely / forever.


It has already been uploaded. viewtopic.php?f=115&t=31112&start=375#p337203

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Re: The last MIST

Postby moebiusrising » Mon Jan 22, 2018 2:23 am

vebxenon wrote::shrug: :shrug: :shrug:
Gehstock wrote::cry: discontinued, who can repair my mist. No jtag anymore.
Let us switch to the Mister and make it to the best fpga platform


MiSt Repo Deleted


Why do you delete your repo if I use my original Lotharek made MiST everyday? We are still active users... And I wanted to download all your new arcade cores


The repo is still here:

https://github.com/mist-devel

What are you talking about?

No one seemed to respond to this, so I acted as soon as I could to correct this misinformation.

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Re: The last MIST

Postby moebiusrising » Mon Jan 22, 2018 3:44 am

moebiusrising wrote:No one seemed to respond to this, so I acted as soon as I could to correct this misinformation.


Ok, I realized my error, this is an entirely different github page you're talking about.

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Re: The last MIST

Postby SLiX » Mon Jan 22, 2018 12:55 pm

What a shame ! The MiST is a great device. I have 2 of them working great (One for occasional gaming, One for a small MIDI station).

Thank you for all your work !

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Re: The last MIST

Postby Everett1954 » Mon Jan 22, 2018 2:27 pm

I still love and use my MST a couple time a week and will continue to do so. I appreciate all the hard work everyone has put into making the MIST a great computer. This board has been very helpful in help me understand and use it.

I thought the Mister would increased interest in the MIST also. As far as clones ere concerned, I really do not see a direct replacement.

Gehstock, why the knee jerk reaction of removing your Repo? That is not helping anything. Were you just upset about the last unit being made?

The board is old now, no real Hype about it exist. The raspberry PI is featured in every magazine I read so it is expected that sales are down. As Retro gamers we should be use to loss of hardware. I hope we continue to see new core and improved cores for the MIST but right now it has a ton of usable cores.

Still lots of active users and I believe will continue to be....

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Re: The last MIST

Postby vebxenon » Mon Jan 22, 2018 2:53 pm

Gehstock has put his repo online again :D

https://github.com/Gehstock/Mist_FPGA?files=1
Just a computer and videogame lover :)

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Re: The last MIST

Postby christos » Mon Jan 22, 2018 5:40 pm

Sorgelig wrote:
christos wrote:What I find really sad is that Atari ST users are left without a hardware replacement for their system.

MiST is still available in the shop. Buy it then. Atari ST sources are available to port to other boards.
FPGA core is not a food - it won't be rotten. You still can continue to use as long as you want.


FireShot.png


I do web development and the only hardware stuff I've done is designing an educational physics experiment using Arduinos. That's not even close to the hardware design needed with FPGA's and I am not really capable of porting anything to anything. And I don't have to, because in the Atari ST community we try to compliment each other with our skills and knowledge and someone who knows how, might do the port for another board, maybe even yours. However the way things are, Atari ST users do not have a replacement and that is sad for us. For me MiST would have made a great platform for GEM stuff on low end systems since it could simulate an STE with a graphics card.
I also explained why I couldn't buy it and I just sent a thank you for a work well done. I don't see why you felt the need to tell me that bacteria don't eat FPGA cores.

I would also like to address this:
From sales point of view, it's not a good idea to announce the end of manufacturing. It should be announce then end of sales when you have no stock anymore.


I suspect that what you do isn't 100% about the sales either.
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Re: The last MIST

Postby Sorgelig » Mon Jan 22, 2018 6:22 pm

christos wrote:I don't see why you felt the need to tell me that bacteria don't eat FPGA cores.

It was a joke :)
I just don't get the point of your frustration. If you want FPGA clone of Atari ST, then you can buy it now and i believe within foreseeing future.
Producing MiST doesn't automatically mean developing and improving the Atari ST core. It hasn't been improved long time and there are no signs it will.

Atari ST community has problem here. You need some one who can work on this core. I believe there are many things still need to be done and improved. So, your frustration should be directed to fact that there is no active Atari ST FPGA developer instead of manufacturing the MiST which is over-manufactured already and still will be available long time.


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