why has it stopped?

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lips2k15
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why has it stopped?

Postby lips2k15 » Mon Jul 24, 2017 2:41 pm

hi guys - i am starting to think my mist investment is a bit of a lemon... i have had it nearly 2 years and while the spectrum and commodore 64 cores have come on in leaps and bounds - the amiga core that i originally purchased the device for has basically stalled - no rtg, no faster cpu, no usb support? so.my question is why? what happend?

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Re: why has it stopped?

Postby ericgus » Tue Jul 25, 2017 12:44 am

Best to ask CHAOS over on his website http://somuch.guru/minimig/minimig-mist/

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Re: why has it stopped?

Postby Newsdee » Tue Jul 25, 2017 1:21 am

each core is its own project after all. But If I'm not mistaken the AGA core is already very compatible no?

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Re: why has it stopped?

Postby ericgus » Tue Jul 25, 2017 1:36 am

Newsdee wrote:each core is its own project after all. But If I'm not mistaken the AGA core is already very compatible no?


I thought chaos talked about putting in some kind of basic RTG support (for better monitor compatibility or something.. )

Yes, I heard, but the FPGA Arcade guys have yet to publish any code to the public.

The RTG hardware is not too problematic, I can probably write something working in a day or two, as long as there’s enough memory bandwidth. The RTG software driver might be a problem, though.

REPLY JANUARY 30, 2016 AT 20:38



http://somuch.guru/minimig/minimig-mist/#comment-1434

he also comments in the comment area about adding ethernet support but its unstable.. guess hes working on it .. the comments posted arent too old ..

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Re: why has it stopped?

Postby gunrock » Tue Jul 25, 2017 6:52 am

Not sure why you think it was an investment? An investment is supposed to (ideally) appreciate in value. Any technology purchase will depreciate in value.

When you bought the MiST there was no contract of future core deliveries. This is an enthusiasts gadget used by and cores written by dedicated enthusiasts who made no promises of future updates.

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Re: why has it stopped?

Postby Newsdee » Tue Jul 25, 2017 8:54 am

let's also not forget cores are open source. there is always the possibility of somebody continuing work later on.

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Re: why has it stopped?

Postby kolla » Sat Jul 29, 2017 8:38 am

I am quite happy with the AGA core as it is, it's already the most stable and reliable "classic" AmigaOS system I have (and I have plenty, lol). Apart from a few games titles, also the most compatible (within its limitations). USB support would be nice, but rather than doing too much in FPGA to emulate a certain ethernet card, I would prefer to "pass them on" as a USB host controller to the Amiga side (simple address mapping, right?), and just use the Poseidon USB stack, which gives access to a whole range of USB devices.

RTG is not so important for me, but some way to have flicker free, yet fast AGA modes would be awesome. I have been pondering on playing with the Super72 monitor driver to see if a 800x600-ish mode (936x628 iirc) is possible, that's what I used on my a1200 back in the days with a multisync monitor :)

A2024 modes would be cool too (1024x1024, 10Hz or 15Hz, two bitplanes)

Anyways, sources are around, so it's just a matter of finding time, learning and doing! :mrgreen:
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Re: why has it stopped?

Postby Sorgelig » Sat Jul 29, 2017 11:05 am

On MiSTer more AGA resolutions are possible due to integrated scaler. You can have 1280x720 HD resolution for example.
It's not RTG, but better for modern monitors than PAL/NTSC resolutions.

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Re: why has it stopped?

Postby TonyHoyle » Sun Jul 30, 2017 11:44 am

I just think it's harder to make a good emulator using FPGA than traditional emulation methods.. so opensourcing them doesn't help because there's a tiny pool of people who know FPGA programming to a sufficient level to diagnose and fix issues.

If you want easy emulation, stick UAE on a Pi. There's a sense of satisfaction finally getting the right combination of kickstart and settings to get a game working on the mist, even if it does tend to crash about a minute later..

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Re: why has it stopped?

Postby Newsdee » Mon Jul 31, 2017 1:21 am

TonyHoyle wrote:I just think it's harder to make a good emulator using FPGA than traditional emulation methods.. so opensourcing them doesn't help because there's a tiny pool of people who know FPGA programming to a sufficient level to diagnose and fix issues...


Actually this is a counter example; the current AGA core is based off an older open source core and was the first of its kind. Same with some other cores like the Mac Plus which benefited from minir enhancements.

Granted not many developers are willing to look at it in their free time, there are definitely less devs than for software, and its not that simple for "cpu" developers to jump ship (development paradigm is kind of different). So it takes time, but I'm optimistic especially now with the MiSTer opening new doors (much bigger FPGA).

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Re: why has it stopped?

Postby ericgus » Mon Jul 31, 2017 3:45 am

Newsdee wrote: but I'm optimistic especially now with the MiSTer opening new doors (much bigger FPGA).

Yes .. but I have a fear that Mister (and ones like it) are going to fracture the MiST base.. more so if improvements and changes can not be back-ported.

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Re: why has it stopped?

Postby Sorgelig » Mon Jul 31, 2017 5:24 am

ericgus wrote:
Newsdee wrote: but I'm optimistic especially now with the MiSTer opening new doors (much bigger FPGA).

Yes .. but I have a fear that Mister (and ones like it) are going to fracture the MiST base.. more so if improvements and changes can not be back-ported.

This is weird thought. MiSTer appear just because of MiST limitations. Same as PS3 and PS4. You cannot port PS4 game which utilizes new features to PS3.
MiST originally has pretty weak features and limited the developer very much. Minimig AGA core is the max you can expect, while MiSTer is capable to run RTG and Vampire level of emulation. Unfortunately, the current developer of Minimig is looking like tired. I didn't hear from him anything long time, although he was optimistic with MiSTer project and wanted to add new features.
Well, everyone has its own real life and priorities could be changed... May be later he will be back to work on Minimig. Or Someone else will improve the Minimig.

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Re: why has it stopped?

Postby Newsdee » Mon Jul 31, 2017 5:34 am

ericgus wrote:
Newsdee wrote: but I'm optimistic especially now with the MiSTer opening new doors (much bigger FPGA).

Yes .. but I have a fear that Mister (and ones like it) are going to fracture the MiST base.. more so if improvements and changes can not be back-ported.


Some of that is inevitable given the MiST's Cyclone III is almost fully utilized on the AGA and Genesis cores. That said, other than that I'd expect back-porting HDL shouldn't be too complex as thr MiSTer architecture isn't that different (with SDRAM), at least easier than doing things from scratch.

Many MiST cores came from work done by either MikeJ or Wolfgang on the FPGA Arcade Replay board, and MiST cores have also benefited the ZxUno project by some ports into their board (eg. SMS core).

So I think overall more projects means potentially more people and more cores. :)

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Re: why has it stopped?

Postby ericgus » Mon Jul 31, 2017 7:13 am

Sorgelig wrote:This is weird thought. MiSTer appear just because of MiST limitations.


No I suspect its a legitimate concern of many current MiST owners who lack the time or technical skills to assemble their own MiSTers.. Such a device is out of reach for them ..

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Re: why has it stopped?

Postby Newsdee » Mon Jul 31, 2017 9:21 am

ericgus wrote:No I suspect its a legitimate concern of many current MiST owners who lack the time or technical skills to assemble their own MiSTers.. Such a device is out of reach for them ..

Once the SDRAM board design is stable / tested by a few then it should be possible to have somebody make a larger batch and sell it. Then availability should no longer be a problem.

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Re: why has it stopped?

Postby ericgus » Mon Jul 31, 2017 5:06 pm

Newsdee wrote:
ericgus wrote:No I suspect its a legitimate concern of many current MiST owners who lack the time or technical skills to assemble their own MiSTers.. Such a device is out of reach for them ..

Once the SDRAM board design is stable / tested by a few then it should be possible to have somebody make a larger batch and sell it. Then availability should no longer be a problem.


Thats good but ask the o/p "lips2k15" if he wants to buy yet another FPGA system to address his original question.... :-/

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Re: why has it stopped?

Postby NegSol » Mon Jul 31, 2017 5:21 pm

Not to not leave everybody entitle to his/her view on the topic but I really like my FPGA systems :) - Besides some small dev boards I have two working MIST (one with and one without Midi) and two MISTer. I even tried to get a hold of an FPGA Arcade once - but that is another story. For the two MISTer boards I spent only the sum I spend on my Midi MIST alone.

For me it is a hobby and not an investment! As most of us I like spending money on this hobby ;-) - I like all MIST(er) the same - Also both are really compatible and one can use the same file/folder structure for both and switch data easily back and forth.

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Re: why has it stopped?

Postby nightshadowpt » Wed Aug 02, 2017 7:05 am

I believe the issue that was brought up by the OP is that the development of some cores (especially the Amiga one) seems to have stalled.

I understand that new hardware such as the MISTer can potentially bring new people into the scene, but lack of power is not the problem with many of the current cores for the MIST. Most of them need mostly bugfixing to improve compatibility and a few features/options on the menus.

I can understand that we are not having new cores for more complex systems on the MIST, but I'd like to see the ones we have work flawlessly before moving on to bigger and better things.

I look forward for the end of development of the MISTer and for someone to make it available as a product (like the MIST), but I am still sad to see the development of cores slowing down to a crawl on the MIST.

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Re: why has it stopped?

Postby Sorgelig » Thu Aug 03, 2017 8:04 am

nightshadowpt wrote:I look forward for the end of development of the MISTer

Newsdee wrote:Once the SDRAM board design is stable / tested by a few then it should be possible to have somebody make a larger batch and sell it. Then availability should no longer be a problem.

Hardware of MiSTer is already finished long time ago and pretty stable. I do some PCB revisions only for convenience to fill some needs. But electrically all of them are the same.

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Re: why has it stopped?

Postby nightshadowpt » Fri Aug 04, 2017 8:11 am

Sorgelig wrote:Hardware of MiSTer is already finished long time ago and pretty stable. I do some PCB revisions only for convenience to fill some needs. But electrically all of them are the same.


Hi Sorgelig,

And is there anywhere the MISTer is available as a product like the MiST? (plug and play from a hardware perspective)

By the way, thank you for all the work you have been doing for the community.

Cheers,

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Re: why has it stopped?

Postby Sorgelig » Fri Aug 04, 2017 12:02 pm

nightshadowpt wrote:And is there anywhere the MISTer is available as a product like the MiST? (plug and play from a hardware perspective)
By the way, thank you for all the work you have been doing for the community.
Cheers,

I'm the origin and primary HW/SW developer of MiSTer, but i'm just a hobbyist who does it for fun. I'm not owner of factory, neither i have people who has the factory. So, i have no ability to manufacture the boards. I solder mine by hands. Boards have many components which require quite some time to solder it. And due to age my sight is not so sharp already and it makes soldering more troublesome for me.
If anyone can solder and sell the boards, then i have nothing against it. So, if you want to get it fully soldered, then you can help to find some one who will produce it.

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Re: why has it stopped?

Postby guidol » Fri Aug 04, 2017 12:55 pm

Sorgelig wrote: So, if you want to get it fully soldered, then you can help to find some one who will produce it.

Wouldnt it be an idea to ask Lothrek? He could make the pcb and a case and sell it as a "kit" without the main-pcb?

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Re: why has it stopped?

Postby Sorgelig » Fri Aug 04, 2017 12:59 pm

guidol wrote:Wouldnt it be an idea to ask Lothrek? He could make the pcb and a case and sell it as a "kit" without the main-pcb?

Why not? He may do it.

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Re: why has it stopped?

Postby nightshadowpt » Fri Aug 04, 2017 3:29 pm

That would be very interesting. In his site, Lotharek mentions the following:

"So, If you have interesting idea/project, do not hesitate to contact me. I may be able to commercialize Your project worldwide."


He is the one producing the MIST, so he should have the capacity to produce the MISTer. It may be a great idea to kickstart the MISTer to the next level and increase significantly it's adoption level. It would then become a true successor to the MIST as it will be much easier to use by enthusiasts everywhere that like me do not have the required skills to use a soldering iron.

Sorgelig, would you be willing to cooperate with Lotharek on this? To make it easier for you I can try to drop him an e-mail and get him speaking to you. Otherwise, feel free to contact him directly. :)

This could be very exciting!

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Re: why has it stopped?

Postby Sorgelig » Fri Aug 04, 2017 6:18 pm

Lotharek knows me already.
And he knows that he is free to produce it and sell. So, it's up to him if he wants to produce it or not.


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