MiST - FPGA ST

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Re: MiST - FPGA ST

Postby iceman » Tue May 28, 2013 5:39 pm

troed wrote:Does it run the full set of ST demos including fullscreens & sync scrollers? That is, how accurate is the hw emulation.


I Hear 95% of games and no Modem port. That last part is a bit of a dealbreaker for me. Won't* run much past 8MHz either.

* CURRENTLY, though the Minimig has been made to run faster, so hopes are high for the ST.

EDIT: Truth.
Last edited by iceman on Tue May 28, 2013 8:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: MiST - FPGA ST

Postby MasterOfGizmo » Tue May 28, 2013 7:58 pm

iceman wrote:
troed wrote:Does it run the full set of ST demos including fullscreens & sync scrollers? That is, how accurate is the hw emulation.


I Hear 95% of games and no Modem port. That last part is a bit of a dealbreaker for me. Won't run much past 8MHz either.


A modem port could be added to the header the midi expander is currently attached. But i don't see the use case justifying a hardware add-on for this.What's your use case?

"won't run past 8MHz" isn't entirely true. I currently doesn't run faster. The Amiga core already runs faster and it's sure possible to accelerate the ST as well. The option is actually already in the OSD, but if it's activated the ST crashed immediately. There's still work to do ...
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Re: MiST - FPGA ST

Postby iceman » Tue May 28, 2013 8:07 pm

MasterOfGizmo wrote:
iceman wrote:
troed wrote:Does it run the full set of ST demos including fullscreens & sync scrollers? That is, how accurate is the hw emulation.


I Hear 95% of games and no Modem port. That last part is a bit of a dealbreaker for me. Won't run much past 8MHz either.


A modem port could be added to the header the midi expander is currently attached. But i don't see the use case justifying a hardware add-on for this.What's your use case?

"won't run past 8MHz" isn't entirely true. I currently doesn't run faster. The Amiga core already runs faster and it's sure possible to accelerate the ST as well. The option is actually already in the OSD, but if it's activated the ST crashed immediately. There's still work to do ...


The main use for my ST is logging in to Packet Radio BBSs. This uses a TNC (effectively a radio modem) which plugs into the Atari ST modem port.

I concede your second point. :)
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Re: MiST - FPGA ST ANYONE??

Postby MasterOfGizmo » Tue May 28, 2013 8:09 pm

johncarteronmars wrote:Could anyone please tell me if this is correct, using MIST I will be able to have 14mb ram,
view hi-rez on lcd monitor I have with db-15 connection, if i want midi it will be an addon
board at some point in time


The board itself actually has 32MBytes of RAM. For the ST currently ~14.5MB of these are used (14MB for RAM and 500KBtyes for TOS and cartridge ROM). A real 68000 could not address more than 16MB. The TG68 core in the MIST can address more memory and it should be possible to add another 16MB "alternate" ram.

And yes, all three Atari video modes incl "st high" are being displayed on a standard VGA screen.

And finally the MIDI add-on: Yes, you'll need one for MIDI to work and there's sure be one. I have three prototypes of these and i am currently working in this. Most MIDI enabled games play their music just nicely, but cubase is not working yet ... :?
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Re: MiST - FPGA ST

Postby MasterOfGizmo » Tue May 28, 2013 8:12 pm

iceman wrote:The main use for my ST is logging in to Packet Radio BBSs. This uses a TNC (effectively a radio modem) which plugs into the Atari ST modem port.


I've been doing packet radio with my ST as well ... ages ago :D Actually i even started to write a packet radio program which i never finished ...

But it's such a rare use case that it just doesn't justify to spend the time to develop a hardware for this. However, i'd gladly support anyone willing to work on such a thing.

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Re: MiST - FPGA ST

Postby iceman » Tue May 28, 2013 8:22 pm

MasterOfGizmo wrote:
iceman wrote:The main use for my ST is logging in to Packet Radio BBSs. This uses a TNC (effectively a radio modem) which plugs into the Atari ST modem port.


I've been doing packet radio with my ST as well ... ages ago :D Actually i even started to write a packet radio program which i never finished ...

But it's such a rare use case that it just doesn't justify to spend the time to develop a hardware for this. However, i'd gladly support anyone willing to work on such a thing.

DG5LAT


Well well, small world! I am currently trying to convert the latest (2004 heheh) version PE1CHL-NET from K&R to ANSI C so it will compile using AHCC. Once that is complete, I am going to start adding new features and trying to support it, maybe get a little community going.

I'll PM you about what kind of effort would be involved in adding the modem port.

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Re: MiST - FPGA ST

Postby johncarteronmars » Tue May 28, 2013 8:58 pm

OK trying to preorder but when I get to PAYPAL the page is in Polish and of all the countries to select from there be no USA or UK
how are you guys ordering this item
Have not seen this page like this before
never had a problem with Ultrasatan or HxC item
???????????????

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Re: MiST - FPGA ST

Postby xc8 » Tue May 28, 2013 9:05 pm

johncarteronmars wrote:OK trying to preorder but when I get to PAYPAL the page is in Polish and of all the countries to select from there be no USA or UK
how are you guys ordering this item
Have not seen this page like this before
never had a problem with Ultrasatan or HxC item
???????????????

err.. there should be a dropdown list (in Polish) that you can choose the language (angielski --> english)

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Re: MiST - FPGA ST

Postby xc8 » Tue May 28, 2013 9:10 pm

MasterOfGizmo wrote:
iceman wrote:
troed wrote:Does it run the full set of ST demos including fullscreens & sync scrollers? That is, how accurate is the hw emulation.


I Hear 95% of games and no Modem port. That last part is a bit of a dealbreaker for me. Won't run much past 8MHz either.


A modem port could be added to the header the midi expander is currently attached. But i don't see the use case justifying a hardware add-on for this.What's your use case?

"won't run past 8MHz" isn't entirely true. I currently doesn't run faster. The Amiga core already runs faster and it's sure possible to accelerate the ST as well. The option is actually already in the OSD, but if it's activated the ST crashed immediately. There's still work to do ...


hm.. what if you could implement this http://www.atari-forum.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=18743#p162607 into the core?

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Re: MiST - FPGA ST

Postby DarkLord » Tue May 28, 2013 9:19 pm

Okay, wait a minute - so I would *NOT* be able to plug say, a Lantronix serial to LAN
port converter into this and use it to call BBS's?

That...is....sad.... :(
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Re: MiST - FPGA ST

Postby MasterOfGizmo » Wed May 29, 2013 8:03 am

iceman wrote:I'll PM you about what kind of effort would be involved in adding the modem port.


It depends. If you need more than just rx and tx then things get complicated as the fpga extension connector only has two pins.
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Re: MiST - FPGA ST

Postby MasterOfGizmo » Wed May 29, 2013 8:07 am

DarkLord wrote:Okay, wait a minute - so I would *NOT* be able to plug say, a Lantronix serial to LAN
port converter into this and use it to call BBS's?
That...is....sad.... :(


The MIST is not an exact copy of an Atari ST. But fortunately that also exists. I suggest you order a suska instead. This imho has all the original ports.

The MIST was designed to only provide those features most users need.

Someone could expand the firmware to support a standard usb-to-serial dongle and make the ST core use that. That's sure not trivial, but it's possible.
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Re: MiST - FPGA ST

Postby MasterOfGizmo » Wed May 29, 2013 8:11 am

xc8 wrote:hm.. what if you could implement this http://www.atari-forum.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=18743#p162607 into the core?


There's no real CPU on the MIST, so there isn't even a 8Mhz clock in the CPU core. Actually it's the memory interface that's by purpose designed to slow the CPU down to something close to 8Mhz.

Let me refer you to the MIST wiki:
http://code.google.com/p/mist-board/w/list
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Re: MiST - FPGA ST

Postby qq1975b » Wed May 29, 2013 8:54 am

Planned/Possible

Faster CPU (by using already existing fast ram interface, perhaps cache)
Extended video modes (e.g. 1280x960 monochrome, 640x480 16 colors)
MIDI add-on board
Support for STX (copy protoected) floppy disk images
STE video (4 bit per color, soft scrolling)
STE DMA sound
Blitter (Optional for ST, mandatory for STE)
USB joysticks and gamepads


When this will be implemented I think it will be really complete: A500 and full STe/Mega STe.....Cool! :thumbs:
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Re: MiST - FPGA ST

Postby wongck » Wed May 29, 2013 11:40 am

MasterOfGizmo wrote:
xc8 wrote:There's no real CPU on the MIST, so there isn't even a 8Mhz clock in the CPU core. Actually it's the memory interface that's by purpose designed to slow the CPU down to something close to 8Mhz.


Oooo... what is then the speed like when running full without the "slow down" feature?
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Re: MiST - FPGA ST

Postby MasterOfGizmo » Wed May 29, 2013 12:22 pm

wongck wrote:Oooo... what is then the speed like when running full without the "slow down" feature?


As i wrote, "Turbo" doesn't work for the atari st yet.

But as a reference what's possible look here http://retroramblings.net/?p=280 This is the same cpu as used in the MIST/ST core with the same ram chip on a similar fpga board. The MIST is able to do the same for the ST.
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Re: MiST - FPGA ST

Postby qq1975b » Wed May 29, 2013 2:06 pm

MasterOfGizmo wrote:
wongck wrote:Oooo... what is then the speed like when running full without the "slow down" feature?


As i wrote, "Turbo" doesn't work for the atari st yet.

But as a reference what's possible look here http://retroramblings.net/?p=280 This is the same cpu as used in the MIST/ST core with the same ram chip on a similar fpga board. The MIST is able to do the same for the ST.


This is quite fast! Like a 68030 at 50MHZ
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Re: MiST - FPGA ST

Postby MasterOfGizmo » Wed May 29, 2013 6:28 pm

qq1975b wrote:This is quite fast! Like a 68030 at 50MHZ


And this is the same core running on the MIST board: Image

The thing is that the author of this did some major modifications to the cpu core and ram controller and it's not that trivial to backport these to the atari peripherals i designed around an earlier version of the minimig core.

Verilog/VHDL hackers welcome ...
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Re: MiST - FPGA ST

Postby remowilliams » Thu May 30, 2013 12:07 am

MasterOfGizmo wrote:And this is the same core running on the MIST board


Whoa. That beats the minimig in turbo mode by quite a bit. :)

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Re: MiST - FPGA ST

Postby alexh » Thu May 30, 2013 5:50 am

remowilliams wrote:Whoa. That beats the minimig in turbo mode by quite a bit. :)

The minimig v1.1 PCB has a hardware 68000 which can only overclock to 28MHz. Plus being a hard 68000 instructions keep their cycle count where they can be made single cycle in the FPGA.

MiniMig core using a TG68 soft 68000 has an identical turbo mode on other FPGA boards.

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Re: MiST - FPGA ST

Postby remowilliams » Fri May 31, 2013 1:54 am

alexh wrote:The minimig v1.1 PCB has a hardware 68000 which can only overclock to 28MHz. Plus being a hard 68000 instructions keep their cycle count where they can be made single cycle in the FPGA.

MiniMig core using a TG68 soft 68000 has an identical turbo mode on other FPGA boards.


Yes I know. Also - turbo is up to 49Mhz these days ;)

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Re: MiST - FPGA ST

Postby MasterOfGizmo » Fri May 31, 2013 7:09 pm

INSPECTOR77 wrote:Will Mist have full midi in/out support, and run midi sequencer software like cubase or notator?
regards


Here you go:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cxeYKdnYuc
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Re: MiST - FPGA ST

Postby INSPECTOR77 » Fri May 31, 2013 7:44 pm

MasterOfGizmo wrote:
INSPECTOR77 wrote:Will Mist have full midi in/out support, and run midi sequencer software like cubase or notator?
regards


Here you go:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cxeYKdnYuc



:cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

Great!!!!!!

Did you test midi in also?

Will need midi addon Solder points?

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Re: MiST - FPGA ST

Postby MasterOfGizmo » Fri May 31, 2013 8:19 pm

INSPECTOR77 wrote:Did you test midi in also?

Midi in already worked pretty early as the rx acia irqs were already in place for keyboard/mouse data reception.

INSPECTOR77 wrote:Will need midi addon Solder points?

Yes, the matching 4 pin connector needs to be added to the board.

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Re: MiST - FPGA ST

Postby INSPECTOR77 » Fri May 31, 2013 8:38 pm

Great work Master!!!
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