MIDI Hardware/Software recommendations?

Somewhere to chat about MIDI music creation, sequencers and related hardware

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MIDI Hardware/Software recommendations?

Postby leech » Tue Jul 24, 2018 6:18 pm

So I'm wanting to get into MIDI composing, I've got a great range of possibilities (TT/Falcon, Amiga 4000, and even a MIDI interface for Atari 8bits).
What I'm looking for is software recommendations and the hardware required to run them (specifically what type of cartridge/dongle would I need to run Cubase correctly (or do the hacked versions work correctly?)

Then on the other side of that (and the fun/expensive part) would be the keyboard/mixer/stuff that I'd need in the stack outside of the computer hardware/software.

If I require a dongle of some sort, what would be advised to have a look out for? I did get Cubase 3.01 running on the TT030, but haven't played with it beyond getting a MID file to play on my (admittedly) crappy MIDI keyboard I bought from Radio Shack like 20 years ago.

Would someone suggest the Falcon over the TT? Would I see much of a difference (rather than the 060/supervidel giving me more desktop speed, would it help with MIDI?)

Thanks for any suggestions.
Atari 8Bits: 800xl, 600xl, XEGS, 800, 130xe, 130xe (VBXE, U1MB, Stereo POKEY)
Atari STs: 1040STf (broken shifter), 1040STe, Mega STe, TT030, Falcon (CT60e, SuperVidel)

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Re: MIDI Hardware/Software recommendations?

Postby Atarieterno » Tue Jul 24, 2018 7:58 pm

My opinion:
- TT.
- Cubase Score original.
- Midex (if you have more MIDI devices).
- Minikeyboard GM compatible or master minikeyboard MIDI with GM sound module.
- Good muses.
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Re: MIDI Hardware/Software recommendations?

Postby leech » Tue Jul 24, 2018 8:49 pm

My TT now has a 1024x768@256 now, (waiting for info on upgrading the Spektrum's memory), and has USB, and Ultra Satan (though thinking of getting a new CosmosEx to throw internally).
I saw here that someone was selling Cubase Score, but it was for 220£ I'll see about finding that, also found someone on ebay currently selling the Midex, so may pick that up.
Thanks!
Atari 8Bits: 800xl, 600xl, XEGS, 800, 130xe, 130xe (VBXE, U1MB, Stereo POKEY)
Atari STs: 1040STf (broken shifter), 1040STe, Mega STe, TT030, Falcon (CT60e, SuperVidel)

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Re: MIDI Hardware/Software recommendations?

Postby Atarieterno » Tue Jul 24, 2018 10:44 pm

A high resolution is very beneficial for Cubase, but it does not need colors.
If you do not reach an agreement with that Cubase vendor, maybe I can get one for you.
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Re: MIDI Hardware/Software recommendations?

Postby charles » Tue Jul 24, 2018 11:01 pm

Cubase v3.01
mega st4 4-14 mb ram
a Yamaha dx7
drum machine
and 4 trk recorder

...if not the instrumentation
id recommend a gs gm midi roland/boss device
then record into pc .....audacy
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Re: MIDI Hardware/Software recommendations?

Postby Atarieterno » Tue Jul 24, 2018 11:44 pm

charles wrote:...then record into pc .....audacy


Heretic! :mrgreen:

Now seriously: with the TT, Cubase Audio and a Yamaha CBX-D5 or its economical version the D3, you can use the MIDI and Audio possibilities, I get to the final creation of a CD with this.
But the CD is not a current method for sharing music: is there a program for Atari that converts the CD files or the AIF stereo track into MP3? That would suppose to totally eliminate the dependence of a PC for that conversion, absolutely all the work would be done with an Atari in 2018.
Greetings.
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Re: MIDI Hardware/Software recommendations?

Postby leech » Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:44 am

Atarieterno wrote:A high resolution is very beneficial for Cubase, but it does not need colors.
If you do not reach an agreement with that Cubase vendor, maybe I can get one for you.


That'd be great. I actually have a cracked version installed right now of 3.01 that seems to work with the TT030.

What is the difference between Cubase Audio and Cubase Score? From what I could find out, it looked like Audio includes the Score portion?
Atari 8Bits: 800xl, 600xl, XEGS, 800, 130xe, 130xe (VBXE, U1MB, Stereo POKEY)
Atari STs: 1040STf (broken shifter), 1040STe, Mega STe, TT030, Falcon (CT60e, SuperVidel)

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Re: MIDI Hardware/Software recommendations?

Postby leech » Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:47 am

Atarieterno wrote:
charles wrote:...then record into pc .....audacy


Heretic! :mrgreen:

Now seriously: with the TT, Cubase Audio and a Yamaha CBX-D5 or its economical version the D3, you can use the MIDI and Audio possibilities, I get to the final creation of a CD with this.
But the CD is not a current method for sharing music: is there a program for Atari that converts the CD files or the AIF stereo track into MP3? That would suppose to totally eliminate the dependence of a PC for that conversion, absolutely all the work would be done with an Atari in 2018.
Greetings.

Now we wouldn't want to commit heresy! Hmm, would the Falcon's faster CPU (CT60e here) and DSP make converting to an MP3 easier/faster?
Atari 8Bits: 800xl, 600xl, XEGS, 800, 130xe, 130xe (VBXE, U1MB, Stereo POKEY)
Atari STs: 1040STf (broken shifter), 1040STe, Mega STe, TT030, Falcon (CT60e, SuperVidel)

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Re: MIDI Hardware/Software recommendations?

Postby Atarieterno » Wed Jul 25, 2018 2:00 am

I do not know any Atari software to convert AIF to MP3, I suppose the DSP of Falcon would benefit that type of conversion, but I have Falcon and C-Lab MKX without CT accelerators, therefore I like more the fluidity of the Cubase editors in the TT. I also like the AD converter of the Yamaha CBX-D5 more than the Falcon converter; but we were talking about MIDI only, sorry for the addition.

Indeed, Cubase Audio includes as MIDI Cubase Score. The main difference is that it is more difficult (and expensive) to find an Audio dongle.
The TT and even an ST with 2'5 Mby can run Cubase Audio without the audio part.
Last edited by Atarieterno on Wed Jul 25, 2018 2:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: MIDI Hardware/Software recommendations?

Postby leech » Wed Jul 25, 2018 2:03 am

Atarieterno wrote:I do not know any Atari software to convert AIF to MP3, I suppose the DSP of Falcon would benefit that type of conversion, but I have Falcon and C-Lab MKX without CT accelerators, therefore I like more the fluidity of the Cubase editors in the TT. I also like the AD converter of the Yamaha CBX-D5 more than the Falcon converter; but we were talking about MIDI only, sorry for the addition.

No worries. But holy crap! So on ebay right now there is a Yamaha CBX-D5 for 339, dude claims it was originally bought for 2k. Then I see a D3 for 35 dollars. What's an 'appropriate' price for these?
Atari 8Bits: 800xl, 600xl, XEGS, 800, 130xe, 130xe (VBXE, U1MB, Stereo POKEY)
Atari STs: 1040STf (broken shifter), 1040STe, Mega STe, TT030, Falcon (CT60e, SuperVidel)

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Re: MIDI Hardware/Software recommendations?

Postby Atarieterno » Wed Jul 25, 2018 2:10 am

leech wrote: But holy crap! So on ebay right now there is a Yamaha CBX-D5 for 339, dude claims it was originally bought for 2k. Then I see a D3 for 35 dollars. What's an 'appropriate' price for these?


If you live in the USA and therefore do not pay customs: that CBX-D3 for $ 35 is very cheap! But remember that you need a Cubase Audio dongle to use it.
CBX-D5 is of better quality, obviously, but that price that you name is excessive.
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Re: MIDI Hardware/Software recommendations?

Postby leech » Wed Jul 25, 2018 2:28 am

Ha, figured why not and ordered both of the CBX-D3s that the guy had, also bought a box of Cubase Audio 2.06 for Falcon (though probably overpaid for that... 200 GBP? It was marked 'Rare' on the site, but needed the dongle). Guess I'll start with those!
Also figured out there is a dedicated forum for this subject, so probably should get a mod to move it there...
Atari 8Bits: 800xl, 600xl, XEGS, 800, 130xe, 130xe (VBXE, U1MB, Stereo POKEY)
Atari STs: 1040STf (broken shifter), 1040STe, Mega STe, TT030, Falcon (CT60e, SuperVidel)

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Re: MIDI Hardware/Software recommendations?

Postby Atarieterno » Wed Jul 25, 2018 9:19 am

leech wrote:Ha, figured why not and ordered both of the CBX-D3s that the guy had, also bought a box of Cubase Audio 2.06 for Falcon (though probably overpaid for that... 200 GBP? It was marked 'Rare' on the site, but needed the dongle). Guess I'll start with those!
Also figured out there is a dedicated forum for this subject, so probably should get a mod to move it there...



Congratulations! You have bought two CBX-D3 at the total cheaper price than what I paid for just one.
The CBXs are chained and now you have doubled the number of audio tracks for recording and playback.
The Cubase Audio for 200 pounds is an acceptable price, especially considering that the Cubase MIDI is selling for the same price.
Now you need:
- An external SCSI hard disk (fast).
- An active SCSI terminator.
- SCSI cables to connect the entire chain.
- Cubase Audio CBX software and manuals (I give that to you)
- Midex.

Optional:
- SCSI CD recorder.
- Small 8-channel mixer

With all that you can record your own disc using only one Atari, from the original idea to the CD. If we get a program for Atari that converts the AIF audio or the CD files into MP3, we can also exclude the PC for this last conversion.

http://www.mediafire.com/file/ebbp2kl5t ... 9.rar/file
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Re: MIDI Hardware/Software recommendations?

Postby leech » Wed Jul 25, 2018 3:33 pm

Atarieterno wrote:
leech wrote:Ha, figured why not and ordered both of the CBX-D3s that the guy had, also bought a box of Cubase Audio 2.06 for Falcon (though probably overpaid for that... 200 GBP? It was marked 'Rare' on the site, but needed the dongle). Guess I'll start with those!
Also figured out there is a dedicated forum for this subject, so probably should get a mod to move it there...



Congratulations! You have bought two CBX-D3 at the total cheaper price than what I paid for just one.
The CBXs are chained and now you have doubled the number of audio tracks for recording and playback.
The Cubase Audio for 200 pounds is an acceptable price, especially considering that the Cubase MIDI is selling for the same price.
Now you need:
- An external SCSI hard disk (fast).
- An active SCSI terminator.
- SCSI cables to connect the entire chain.
- Cubase Audio CBX software and manuals (I give that to you)
- Midex.

Optional:
- SCSI CD recorder.
- Small 8-channel mixer

With all that you can record your own disc using only one Atari, from the original idea to the CD. If we get a program for Atari that converts the AIF audio or the CD files into MP3, we can also exclude the PC for this last conversion.

http://www.mediafire.com/file/ebbp2kl5t ... 9.rar/file

Ha, as I was buying the CBX-D3s, I was thinking 'SCSI, how the hell do I get the internal to external without it looking terrible' then this morning checked, the TT030 has an external SCSI port... I was used to my Mega STe that does not. I knew the Falcon did.

So, I ordered a Midex+ as well, so that's on it's way. How's the speed difference from the Ultra Satan to an external SCSI drive? I'd guess SCSI would be faster than the ACSI throughput. I'll see if I can find one. Thought several times of getting a SCSI CD Recorder.
Atari 8Bits: 800xl, 600xl, XEGS, 800, 130xe, 130xe (VBXE, U1MB, Stereo POKEY)
Atari STs: 1040STf (broken shifter), 1040STe, Mega STe, TT030, Falcon (CT60e, SuperVidel)

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Re: MIDI Hardware/Software recommendations?

Postby leech » Wed Jul 25, 2018 3:59 pm

I found several 'online' AIF to MP3 converters, so I guess if you have network access, you could upload to one of these. Still searching around for some software.
Atari 8Bits: 800xl, 600xl, XEGS, 800, 130xe, 130xe (VBXE, U1MB, Stereo POKEY)
Atari STs: 1040STf (broken shifter), 1040STe, Mega STe, TT030, Falcon (CT60e, SuperVidel)

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Re: MIDI Hardware/Software recommendations?

Postby mrbombermillzy » Wed Jul 25, 2018 6:21 pm

Im keeping a close eye on this thread...

Before moving house and having a baby which pretty much ground things to a halt, I was slowly collecting together an Atari MIDI system.

This currently comprises of:

Mega ST4 or MSTE or TT (whichever runs all the below best!)
Replay 16 Sampler
2xCBX-D5
Yamaha SY85

Unfortunately, I have not really had time to try the (albeit cracked) verson of Cubase CBX-D5. I hope it works!!

My brother has also handed me a slew of fast SCSI drives. Im hoping to chain at least one in there.

@Leech: I will see how you get on so I know how to proceed, but if you get stuck for any hardware/leads that are unobtainium, let me know. I MAY be able to help!

As for sound file conversions.. I was previously mucking around with .IMG <> .BMP conversions, so filetype conversion shouldnt be too much of a headache for me and I could probably write a TOS based converter at some point. However, I would just like to highlight the 2nd line of this post again before anyone gets too excited! :lol:

Recommendations:

Depends on the music you are making, but a sampler can be lots of fun, especially with those CBX-D3's! 8)

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Re: MIDI Hardware/Software recommendations?

Postby Atarieterno » Wed Jul 25, 2018 9:39 pm

mrbombermillzy; I believe that you have the battle almost won, you have very good material.

mrbombermillzy wrote: ...to try the (albeit cracked) verson of Cubase CBX-D5. I hope it works!!


Is there a version of Cubase Audio CBX cracked? I do not know her. Please, share it.
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Re: MIDI Hardware/Software recommendations?

Postby mrbombermillzy » Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:00 pm

Actually, the version I have managed to find in my Atari files archive today was downloaded from the Steinberg FTP site! :( Probably needs a dongle then.

Im sure I got hold of at least 2 versions of this, but where Ive moved home, all my files are scattered across different machines which arent all available ATM. Maybe the other one is on the TT SCSI drive and I didnt make a backup? Who knows?

Give me a few days to find and fire up the SCSI drive and I will have a look and see if its there. Might give me a chance to hook some of this equipment up.

In the meantime, has anyone managed to get Breakthru 2 working with either the TT or better still with a TT with Relay 16? (Dont want to thread hijack here, but Im sure all thats uncovered here may be useful info for Leech! ;) )

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Re: MIDI Hardware/Software recommendations?

Postby fidzen » Thu Jul 26, 2018 8:14 pm

Sorry for interrupting this thread, but I wonder how the CBX-D5 is used with a Falcon for audio?
When I was recording with Falcon back in the days I used JAM IN 8 and OUT 8. I have never heard
about the CBX-D5, and it sounds very interesting.
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Re: MIDI Hardware/Software recommendations?

Postby leech » Thu Jul 26, 2018 8:32 pm

mrbombermillzy wrote:Actually, the version I have managed to find in my Atari files archive today was downloaded from the Steinberg FTP site! :( Probably needs a dongle then.

Im sure I got hold of at least 2 versions of this, but where Ive moved home, all my files are scattered across different machines which arent all available ATM. Maybe the other one is on the TT SCSI drive and I didnt make a backup? Who knows?

Give me a few days to find and fire up the SCSI drive and I will have a look and see if its there. Might give me a chance to hook some of this equipment up.

In the meantime, has anyone managed to get Breakthru 2 working with either the TT or better still with a TT with Relay 16? (Dont want to thread hijack here, but Im sure all thats uncovered here may be useful info for Leech! ;) )

So now I should find a Replay 16? This is getting pricey. Haha
Atari 8Bits: 800xl, 600xl, XEGS, 800, 130xe, 130xe (VBXE, U1MB, Stereo POKEY)
Atari STs: 1040STf (broken shifter), 1040STe, Mega STe, TT030, Falcon (CT60e, SuperVidel)

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Re: MIDI Hardware/Software recommendations?

Postby mrbombermillzy » Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:33 pm

@Leech: Ideally, you could, with this CBX/Replay16 setup, sample in at 16 bit and record it back into the CBX unit. Make sure only to record 1 channel otherwise you will lose audio quality.

Back in the day, I had lots of fun with Sequencer One which then became Breakthru/2, as it was pretty much the only decent sequencer which was able to use the Replay 8/pro/16 samplers (up to 4 channels at once) along with MIDI. Having the CBX units pretty much turns a lowly ST into a Cubase Audio Falcon equivalent. (Quite a bit better sound effect quality wise actually-especially with twin D5 units!)

FYI, when I bought a Falcon030 with Cubase Audio back in ~1994, I ended up selling the lot as some of the audio channels would crackle on playback. I didnt know about having to patch the clock signal back then :(

@fidzen: You dont majorly need the CBX units with the Falcon as the DSP system could do direct to disk with limited effects. The CBX was a bit better, but also several 1000 £$ more than a Falcon! (Cant remember offhand, but Im sure the D5 version started at £3/4k!)

The good thing about the Yamaha CBX units is that, even if you dont have a SCSI setup to record audio, you should still be able to do realtime effects with MIDI messages. So in theory, a Commodore 64 SHOULD be able to control the FX Processors through Program change MIDI data on a (fairly comprehensive) sequencer. (Um, sorry leech, I believe that the cut down D3 may not have FX units??)
Last edited by mrbombermillzy on Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: MIDI Hardware/Software recommendations?

Postby Atarieterno » Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:37 pm

fidzen wrote:Sorry for interrupting this thread, but I wonder how the CBX-D5 is used with a Falcon for audio?
When I was recording with Falcon back in the days I used JAM IN 8 and OUT 8. I have never heard
about the CBX-D5, and it sounds very interesting.


I have not tried it with the Falcon, but I imagine it works in the same way as the other members of the family (ST, Mega ST and TT).
The main utility of the CBX is that it provides audio recording capabilities to Atari models that are not Falcon (or C-Lab), and it does so with excellent A / D converters and other improvements over the Falcon. Being a processor independent of the computer, avoid the demanding tasks that the Falcon itself has to support natively for audio recording.
The version of Cubase Audio CBX is 1.1 and therefore a little more austere compared to v2.06 for Falcon, but it has specific functions for the CBX device (for example the effects).


leech wrote:So now I should find a Replay 16? This is getting pricey. Haha


We are talking about skyscrapers and are you going to worry about a tent? :mrgreen:
Replay 16 is a toy... beautiful, but toy :cheers:
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Re: MIDI Hardware/Software recommendations?

Postby mrbombermillzy » Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:48 pm

Atarieterno wrote:We are talking about skyscrapers and are you going to worry about a tent? :mrgreen:
Replay 16 is a toy... beautiful, but toy :cheers:


Yeah the Replay 16 was perhaps not Pro quality, but it was fun!

Wasnt there originally a £2-300 version of the Replay16 by AVR?

I remember seeing this in ST Format magazine. Perhaps the more expensive unit had higher quality DACs?

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Re: MIDI Hardware/Software recommendations?

Postby Rustynutt » Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:45 pm

leech wrote:My TT now has a 1024x768@256 now, (waiting for info on upgrading the Spektrum's memory), and has USB, and Ultra Satan (though thinking of getting a new CosmosEx to throw internally).
I saw here that someone was selling Cubase Score, but it was for 220£ I'll see about finding that, also found someone on ebay currently selling the Midex, so may pick that up.
Thanks!


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Re: MIDI Hardware/Software recommendations?

Postby Atarieterno » Thu Jul 26, 2018 11:17 pm

mrbombermillzy wrote:Yeah the Replay 16 was perhaps not Pro quality, but it was fun!
Wasnt there originally a £2-300 version of the Replay16 by AVR?
I remember seeing this in ST Format magazine. Perhaps the more expensive unit had higher quality DACs?


I do not know that Replay with steroids, but I would like to have more information. :cheers:
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