Cubase Audio Dongle Clone

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simbo

Re: Cubase Audio Dongle Clone

Postby simbo » Thu Jan 20, 2011 2:23 pm

so

looking and cross referance brings me to this

all this does is say a digital helow every time rom3 goes low
could be some fired sequence

so only 3 i/os need monitored by my card

so ill build the rest of the pcb tonight just a very easy pcb to make
or i can solder wires to a dongle
or i can use just simple clip on connections made for ic's i have a few dozen on the i/o cards cable

so when someone has one spare
ill give it a try :|
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Mal7921
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Re: Cubase Audio Dongle Clone

Postby Mal7921 » Thu Jan 20, 2011 6:29 pm

Only using 3 lines would make sense as different dongles may well poll different lines, which would explain why you could have up to 4 different dongles in the MIDEX, unless I'm missing something (Which is quite possible).

I'll pop open the Cubase Audio dongle and photograph it later tonight to compare

As for a spare dongle, I can send up my V3 dongle if you like.
The collection:

Atari 260ST, 520ST, 520ST+, 520STfm
Atari STe
Atari Falcon, 14MB, 40GB IDE drive

simbo

Re: Cubase Audio Dongle Clone

Postby simbo » Thu Jan 20, 2011 7:03 pm

ok d i suppose that dongle will work on the st/e and megas// falcon?? tt yes

if so it should be no problems

is it red?? like the photos of the best one

or is it a black one??

how many types are there ?? is there a list already compiled??

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Re: Cubase Audio Dongle Clone

Postby Mal7921 » Thu Jan 20, 2011 7:41 pm

All red dongles will work with the Falcon/TT as well as the ST's and were supplied with the later Cubase versions. I took my V3 and Cubase Audio dongles apart and photographed them

Cubase3-1.jpg

Cubase3-2.jpg

CubaseAudio2-1.jpg

CubaseAudio2-2.jpg


Let me know where to send it, I can send up the Cubase Audio dongle once I have the Cubase 3 dongle back or the other way around, as the studio is dead without them both
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Atari 260ST, 520ST, 520ST+, 520STfm
Atari STe
Atari Falcon, 14MB, 40GB IDE drive

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Re: Cubase Audio Dongle Clone

Postby MiggyMog » Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:18 pm

You are correct that I do not fully understand how the Dongles work. All I knew were that they were hardware keys which prevent the use of the software when not plugged in. I figured the cartridge imaging tool would be useful to back these up if this was the case & ran this & it did create an image for each. Steem could indeed mount such a Rom image, by choosing Machine & Choose at the 'Cartidge' section to load the image.

However, if the cartidge contains logic which you suggest it does, then this would not work as as you rightly point out you can not image hardware logic in this way (You would have to emulate like the rest of Steem!). The steem documentation does provide an exception to this rule, I.E. where a simple switch is present. You could image twice, one with it on & one with it off & swap carts in Steem (No short circuits as it's only emulated!).

I assumed it may in it's simplest form have a magic number which is accessed & verified against the accompanying software. I did suspect it would be more complicated than this and numbers would be sent and then a decrypted number would be returned. It is also unlikely that each dongle would be made different as that would have been more difficult to produce when these were made I imagine, although for the price they charged it may have been worth while.

I have yet to try mounting these images but as steam emulates ST/STE & 2 of them are Falcon software, it's Unlikely. Thought it was worth trying to image them in case they were just simple ROM cartidges though.

It is worth mentioning though, that a hardware solution to a software problem is maybe not the best route. Obviously a hacked version would be far simpler & save your cartidge port from further ware, and save desktop space. If there is logic which queries the cartridge addresses the hacked versions would have to intercept where the software looks for reads between the 128k cartridge space between $ FA0000 and $FC0000. As there are only certain pins connected we could discount lots of addresses from those though! The next part of a hack would be to get rid of the anti hack checksums etc. I'm sure someone could do this for the ones not yet fixed?
('< o o o o |''| STM,2xSTFM,2xSTE+HD,C-Lab Falcon MK2+HD,Satandisk,Ultrasatandisk,Ethernat.

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Re: Cubase Audio Dongle Clone

Postby Dal » Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:24 pm

The problem with attempting to 'fix' the dongle protection in sw with Cubase (and any other Midi/Audio Atari application) is maintaining the sw timing. There are many 'hacked' versions of Cubase that crash simply because the timing is screwed.

For stability, Hardware emulation would be better in terms of providing a universal mechanism IMHO
TT030: 4MB/16MB + Crazy Dots, Mega"SST" 12, MegaSTE, STE: Desktopper case, IDE interface, UltraSatan (8GB + 512Mb) + HXC floppy emulator. Plus some STE's/STFM's

simbo

Re: Cubase Audio Dongle Clone

Postby simbo » Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:33 pm

the instruction width of a pic micro is 200ns or less
fast enough to just add a chip inside the atari
that does all these type of carts

i see on the above picture a different controller

ill look it up maybe its just the same type of thing
a pld so anyway
i think the dongle provided 'flagging'
for use as the main clock
the rom3 signal is used as the clock
so it clocks through a preset logic event
to make cubase run
then the instruction in its .prg that addresses the rom3
needs to be redirected to test an area in ram instead
and a sudo key added there as a part of the program
i dont think this is good as half the thing with cubase is its very nice midi timekeeping
i never see people who have great timing using cracks
so the choice is just to add one inside made from a 20mhz pic {easy}
the port access is 200ns events
so pics are well ok to do all of them
maybe some menu added via lcd etc or a plug into the serial port from the pic
then a small .prg or an acc can be used to change the dongle ...

either way i know this dongle has nothing atall to do with a magic number
however rom 3 will trigger a read at boot time only even a soft hard boot will
perhaps they trigger the load and its just one bit thats set ...

ill go for some tests first then we know
ill setup the desktop machine with the card,, and drivers ready...

i think all this does is change 1 bit in ram

as active clock pin on the pld is a high to move

now the rom3 only goes high once tos loads
this means when tos no longer looks at rom3 it goes high
and triggers the bit to be set from actual bootup
its never used for anything else


at address xxxx,xxxx,yxxx,xxxx
you get data xxxx,xxxx,yxxx,xxxx

y data & address y
x dont care


if someone is brave enough they could plug it while the machine is running
this wont effect a dongle {no damage }
but if cubase still runs then we know the app doesnt perform a reset

to trigger the rom3 bit to set

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Re: Cubase Audio Dongle Clone

Postby MiggyMog » Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:40 pm

The problem with attempting to 'fix' the dongle protection in sw with Cubase (and any other Midi/Audio Atari application) is maintaining the sw timing. There are many 'hacked' versions of Cubase that crash simply because the timing is screwed.

For stability, Hardware emulation would be better in terms of providing a universal mechanism IMHO


I see your point, I just figure that what's measuring the timing is the sofware, so surely the software could be fixed to compensate for this?

P.S. That was a rapid response!
('< o o o o |''| STM,2xSTFM,2xSTE+HD,C-Lab Falcon MK2+HD,Satandisk,Ultrasatandisk,Ethernat.

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Re: Cubase Audio Dongle Clone

Postby Mal7921 » Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:48 pm

Both of my dongle's came from Barrie at keychange, and I can say that the Cubase Audio one was far more difficult to get open than the Cubase 3 dongle.

As I recall, there were a number of checkpoints within Cubase that called the dongle when certain functions were accessed, such as the key editor or the interactive phrase synthesizer. Some early Cubase 3 cracks worked so long as you didn't access certain functions, otherwise the no key - goodbye message would come up and the program quits.

In fact if your dongle/cartridge connections are mucky, this error can come up with a genuine cartridge connected while in use, very annoying if you have not saved your work beforehand!
The collection:

Atari 260ST, 520ST, 520ST+, 520STfm
Atari STe
Atari Falcon, 14MB, 40GB IDE drive

simbo

Re: Cubase Audio Dongle Clone

Postby simbo » Thu Jan 20, 2011 11:15 pm

im saying nothing more
as it needs properly captured
in RT and the capture 'played back on event'
and a model made for a new pld or cpld

simbo

Re: Cubase Audio Dongle Clone

Postby simbo » Thu Jan 20, 2011 11:51 pm

M7H007

cant find its datasheet

need to route around,, a bit

simbo

Re: Cubase Audio Dongle Clone

Postby simbo » Fri Jan 21, 2011 12:28 am

now on the above pictures there is a track that disappears under the ic from one of the pads {31}
what is pin it goes too
you can safely use a multimeter but it must be set to a high range like 200k or better use the diode test feature

assuming you have one
if not an inspection behind the pins will reveal the location

simbo

Re: Cubase Audio Dongle Clone

Postby simbo » Fri Jan 21, 2011 1:07 am

ok browsing the net i see that this key is a 128bit key

so
so its mega easy and will take me about 1hr to finish

if you could send a dongle up that basicaly covers all cubase apps
v3 one ill pm my address
i assume several reads at rom3 register will be used for different keys per accept
maybe
again not an issue with a working setup

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Re: Cubase Audio Dongle Clone

Postby Dal » Fri Jan 21, 2011 10:52 am

Simbo - I've said it before and I'll say it again:

:megaphone: I LOVE YOUR WORK! :D :D :D :cheers:
TT030: 4MB/16MB + Crazy Dots, Mega"SST" 12, MegaSTE, STE: Desktopper case, IDE interface, UltraSatan (8GB + 512Mb) + HXC floppy emulator. Plus some STE's/STFM's

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Re: Cubase Audio Dongle Clone

Postby Mal7921 » Fri Jan 21, 2011 11:31 am

Hi Simbo, sadly I had to leave all my meters and other such stuff at the old house when I was getting divorced and the ex threw them out in a hissy fit one day. Had I know I could have rescued them, but by the time I found out it had all either been nicked or damaged beyond repair.

Mind you, with the way my health has gone over the years I would not dare do anything with something like the Falcon or TT, that would have to be passed on to someone else these days.

As far as I know my last bits of Atari kit are still intact though, which I intend to pick up later (Since we are on speaking terms again)

I'll get the dongle into the post over the weekend.
The collection:

Atari 260ST, 520ST, 520ST+, 520STfm
Atari STe
Atari Falcon, 14MB, 40GB IDE drive

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Re: Cubase Audio Dongle Clone

Postby Mal7921 » Mon Jan 24, 2011 2:05 pm

After a bit of a delay my end, the Cubase V3 dongle is on it's way up to you now Simbo, you should get it tomorrow.
The collection:

Atari 260ST, 520ST, 520ST+, 520STfm
Atari STe
Atari Falcon, 14MB, 40GB IDE drive

simbo

Re: Cubase Audio Dongle Clone

Postby simbo » Mon Jan 24, 2011 4:02 pm

nice1 ive setup the pci capture on a dual p3 machine
and tested it all out {very nice}

i made last night a card design i can plug inbetween
{took me several hours in ares to build the libs for the edge connector if any wants the proteus ares libs for it let me know}

so i am just a bit of software editing away from being ready

ill get it back to you after a week or two

nice project for me too do and will make a welcome distraction from repairs

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Re: Cubase Audio Dongle Clone

Postby Mal7921 » Mon Jan 24, 2011 4:05 pm

If you need the software to run, I can upload it to the AMN website, I need to place it there some time anyhow (Been meaning to do that for months now)
The collection:

Atari 260ST, 520ST, 520ST+, 520STfm
Atari STe
Atari Falcon, 14MB, 40GB IDE drive

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Re: Cubase Audio Dongle Clone

Postby krupkaj » Mon Jan 24, 2011 7:39 pm

Here are photos of my CAF dongle. As you see there is different chip than in Mal7921's.

dsc18613.jpg


dsc18612.jpg
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Re: Cubase Audio Dongle Clone

Postby krupkaj » Mon Jan 24, 2011 7:54 pm

The route from pad 31 goes to pins 1 and 2 of the chip.

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Re: Cubase Audio Dongle Clone

Postby MiggyMog » Mon Jan 24, 2011 9:46 pm

Some more photos of the inards.

Simbo you can borrow the ones you don't have to analyse the logic too if you want.
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Re: Cubase Audio Dongle Clone

Postby Mal7921 » Tue Jan 25, 2011 4:42 pm

krupkaj wrote:Here are photos of my CAF dongle. As you see there is different chip than in Mal7921's.


It is a different chip number, but by the look of it, it's a 'drop in' replacement for the one in my dongles as the board is still pretty much identical. So some scope for replacement should a chip go pop
The collection:

Atari 260ST, 520ST, 520ST+, 520STfm
Atari STe
Atari Falcon, 14MB, 40GB IDE drive

simbo

Re: Cubase Audio Dongle Clone

Postby simbo » Tue Jan 25, 2011 10:30 pm

as i said the boards carry a 'best' mark

and use later controllers more easy to find

translating from one platform to another is very easy maths

i got the dongle through the post today

so ill rig it up tomorrow and get it talking on the ste

lets see what happens
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simbo

Re: Cubase Audio Dongle Clone P.O.A

Postby simbo » Wed Jan 26, 2011 5:02 pm

plan of action for this dongle taly and rework
so i plan to use a buffer chip as a pic micro
on each rom 3 int i will capture the toggle on address and data 8
these gal etc are capable of atleast 20mhz transition
so as data is addressed via a 'clk in' rom 3 action
then data and address 8 will perform there actions in the same time frame
transparent so data appearing on data 8 can be addressed to appear next or not
depending on the code
so...
the plan here is to capture 128 rom 3 actions and 128X6 input and data transistions
its easy just to make a block of code that then lives on the hdd
but this will NOT time properly cubase
it needs this dongle or some sort of cubase addin internal to any st is the way
so i plan to use a pic micro 'in the way'
it stores a block of 128 rom3 actions and both post bit and pre bit capture
to a block of text .. via rs232 after every action like save load open a facet etc
so this is the plan
and ill draw up the circuit now
mapping using an i/o card will take me added code work
i can use buffers in the pic to order the data i send over rs232 as a block
its much easier...
so this is the progress
plenty of background
then hammer it out
remember with rom 3 or even 4 {not broken out on some machines {hint!!! for hardware}}
if the cart isnt asked for a 'magic number' it gets ignored by the system
this gives a place for keys and 'dongles' dynamic ongoing numonic gain level engines
the provide bin shapes like trangles and cubes pymarids in many forms and octal shapes
all maths is just simple shapes
binarys
complex shapes and maths as nodes are not regular shapes...
and are only 2 i/o mappable to level 4 llc
piss easy...
the main thing with security is whats come before
if i were making it i would allow for a missed transition at runtime
so if 2 fail (fail+fail) = exit
3 retrys on run
or resisdent byte first at run
all will be mapped
ive moved back to a stf as it runs a little slower...
using sm124
stfm 2 chip gold board 4MB 1MB + dongle and some internal mods to save making a board
ive added three resistors inside the port
on address 8 data 8 and rom 3
so i will add to this 3/i/o to a pic or other 4 bank micro
and export blocks of rom3 signals
and also rom3 address8 and data8
and rom3 data8 and address 8
sets to three seperate buffers
on boot
on run
on apply function... within

simbo

Re: Cubase Audio Dongle Clone

Postby simbo » Wed Jan 26, 2011 5:23 pm

i think

this way i can provide how to map your own dongle
like a floppy is copied if you own it :|

and still leave room to revoke any copyrights claim by steinberg

once i publish to pic code
and how to do it
and copy your own notice!!

i cant be held responsible for your actions

its that simple

you can do this with a pic and a pc

and not a fixed dingi file posted by me or another

its easy school boy stuff really these days

give the problem to the kids
i bet they do it the same way

1 cart + 1 dongle +3resistors + 1 pic buffer 128bit on rom3 int + 1 pc + 1rs232 115kb

even play it back maybe with two pics one does upper sideband one lower


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