Cubase Audio Dongle Clone

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Dal
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Cubase Audio Dongle Clone

Postby Dal » Tue Nov 02, 2010 11:35 pm

Hi,

I have a copy of Cubase Audio with the ROM port dongle and in the interests of preservation (especially if it decides to go pop), I would like to somehow clone it.

What are my options? (if any)
TT030: 4MB/16MB + Crazy Dots, Mega"SST" 12, MegaSTE, STE: Desktopper case, IDE interface, UltraSatan (8GB + 512Mb) + HXC floppy emulator. Plus some STE's/STFM's

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Re: Cubase Audio Dongle Clone

Postby Shredder11 » Wed Nov 03, 2010 11:21 am

This was discussed during the past year or so by maybe Simbo, and I would think there would be some interest in this being done; I for one would be very interested.

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Re: Cubase Audio Dongle Clone

Postby nativ » Wed Nov 03, 2010 12:24 pm

Shredder11 wrote:This was discussed during the past year or so by maybe Simbo, and I would think there would be some interest in this being done; I for one would be very interested.

How about a multi Rom with Cubase / Zero X / avalon / Logic etc on it switchable by hardware or software or all available at once?
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Re: Cubase Audio Dongle Clone

Postby AtariSince1989 » Wed Nov 03, 2010 1:19 pm

nativ wrote:How about a multi Rom with Cubase / Zero X / avalon / Logic etc on it switchable by hardware or software or all available at once?

Brilliant idea :thumbs: Do it now! :mrgreen:
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Re: Cubase Audio Dongle Clone

Postby Shredder11 » Wed Nov 03, 2010 1:22 pm

Great idea except the price would rocket as a result?

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Re: Cubase Audio Dongle Clone

Postby nativ » Wed Nov 03, 2010 1:29 pm

Shredder11 wrote:Great idea except the price would rocket as a result?


For sure? Wouldn't it mean just a bigger ROM? How much more are we talking? Individual Dongle vs. a Multi?

Was there any further progress on Software dongle emulation?


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Re: Cubase Audio Dongle Clone

Postby wongck » Wed Nov 03, 2010 1:32 pm

Shredder11 wrote:Great idea except the price would rocket as a result?


Atari ain't cheap in the first place.
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Re: Cubase Audio Dongle Clone

Postby Shredder11 » Wed Nov 03, 2010 2:27 pm

I know! :lol:

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Re: Cubase Audio Dongle Clone

Postby Dal » Wed Nov 03, 2010 3:34 pm

I am totally ignorant to how the protection dongle works - are they all encoded differently? or are they simply a bunch of numbers that are read by the software at various intervals?

Does the software write anything back to the ROM? (I would expect not)

if it is just a ROM, can't we just read it off and burn it to an equivalent (E(E))PROM??

Like I said my ignorance on the protection may well be causing me to think about this too simplistically...
TT030: 4MB/16MB + Crazy Dots, Mega"SST" 12, MegaSTE, STE: Desktopper case, IDE interface, UltraSatan (8GB + 512Mb) + HXC floppy emulator. Plus some STE's/STFM's

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Re: Cubase Audio Dongle Clone

Postby frank.lukas » Wed Nov 03, 2010 3:41 pm

Inside the Steinberg Dongle is a "Intel P5C060" cmos PLD Chip.
(Cubase Score 3.x key)

http://www.datasheetarchive.com/Scans/S ... 22815.html
Last edited by frank.lukas on Tue Jan 25, 2011 10:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Cubase Audio Dongle Clone

Postby Dal » Wed Nov 03, 2010 5:41 pm

Has anyone tried a schematic capture of one of these? I would presume the Security is enabled so probably a lost cause? :cry:
TT030: 4MB/16MB + Crazy Dots, Mega"SST" 12, MegaSTE, STE: Desktopper case, IDE interface, UltraSatan (8GB + 512Mb) + HXC floppy emulator. Plus some STE's/STFM's

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Re: Cubase Audio Dongle Clone

Postby simbo » Wed Nov 03, 2010 11:00 pm

empty thread

you need the file to flash the otp controller as a cart to make a clone
you need to caputre data using a pc io card
like i have 40 way
and then reconstruct the program of the pld that is used for the cubase cart


hey you can always ask them for the file ??

they make nothing out of cubase 2x3x these days

its worth a try;;; good luck

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Re: Cubase Audio Dongle Clone

Postby Dal » Thu Nov 04, 2010 8:10 am

Worth a try indeed, I have sent them this:
Hi,

I know the product is no longer supported however there are still a number of Atari users who are using Cubase on their Atari Falcon or ST.

We are a self-supporting community and are looking for ways to support users who have failed dongles. The dongles (well certainly the Falcon ROM based ones) are based on an Intel P5C060 CMOS PLD chip which requires programming with a 'schematic'.

Given that you don't support the platform anymore, we would like to ask if you could supply us with the firmware schematic file so that we can create replacement dongles in the event of future failures.

This gesture of goodwill will almost certainly turn into genuine sales when these users finally put their old hardware into storage and move onto current platforms.

I understand it's an unusual request but we would really appreciate your help on this. In return, we will ensure a very positive message is communicated in order to influence users' future DAW investments ;-)

Kind Regards,
Darren.


....we shall see - I'm not holding my breath on this one though!
TT030: 4MB/16MB + Crazy Dots, Mega"SST" 12, MegaSTE, STE: Desktopper case, IDE interface, UltraSatan (8GB + 512Mb) + HXC floppy emulator. Plus some STE's/STFM's

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Re: Cubase Audio Dongle Clone

Postby Mal7921 » Tue Jan 18, 2011 9:03 am

The thing is that emagic at least made the dongle useful for Logic/Notator by giving you the option of integrating it all into the LOG3 interface. Now if you could clone THAT, then suddenly you have my undivided attention...

I have a unit that can be examined (Though I would like it to remain working). Fancy looking at that Simbo? I can sent it Glasgow way for a bit if you want to take a look.
The collection:

Atari 260ST, 520ST, 520ST+, 520STfm
Atari STe
Atari Falcon, 14MB, 40GB IDE drive

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Re: Cubase Audio Dongle Clone

Postby simbo » Tue Jan 18, 2011 10:05 pm

to be honest if you look at the law
then this dongle is nothing more than a floppy disk
even floppy disks can have a schematic {hint for capture}

if you map an area of a floppy disk using a different geometry
i worked out ages ago in 1995 you can use it as a chip
ps so can a hdd or er a satandisk be used as a 'dongle image store'


very slowly
and map out its data

the old fashioned way was to hard stream to a floppy disk lsi 8 bit data

but digital i/o cards pci these days run upto 10MHZ
so 1/10M = .000000100 so can run at 100ns time spec
and easily capture i and o on an atari cart
they have int pins clock outputs and many i/os that can be grouped and streamed to hdd

so i expect steinberg arent stupid and just say nothing
and hope it goes away ... like many other makers in atari stuff

so i concider it an open market as they no longer provide any form of support

in legal terms they have abandoned it to posterity
and only 'old' stock units are for sale now
some cheep some not

so its 'fair game' and "will be done"
basicaly it summounts to replacing a part on an old steem engine
so Xfcuk them .. no support etc = they are already shitting on us
so ....

:angel: with a little help :arrow: macro pictures back please or pm them
a casualty of the loss of data on the board

as i am from scotland
i recon the name for the project should be

operation dingi dongle
or the odd cart ???

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Re: Cubase Audio Dongle Clone

Postby Mal7921 » Wed Jan 19, 2011 12:57 pm

I've a Cubase 3 dongle fully working that I can send up, and a fully working Cubase Audio dongle, however as my Atari's are the MIDI workhorses, I can really only send one at a time otherwise my studio is dead.

Do you think it would be possible to do a combi-dongle with Cubase 3 and Cubase Audio 2 on the same cart? When I had the MIDEX connected to my Falcon, you could have both dongle's inserted and fire up either version of Cubase without issue. Shame the MIDI ports on the MIDEX don't work with the Falcon (Or TT) though, it could only function as a rather expensive cartridge port expander :(
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Atari 260ST, 520ST, 520ST+, 520STfm
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Atari Falcon, 14MB, 40GB IDE drive

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Re: Cubase Audio Dongle Clone

Postby Dal » Wed Jan 19, 2011 2:26 pm

I also have a Cubase Audio Falcon dongle that I can send up for research purposes :wink:
TT030: 4MB/16MB + Crazy Dots, Mega"SST" 12, MegaSTE, STE: Desktopper case, IDE interface, UltraSatan (8GB + 512Mb) + HXC floppy emulator. Plus some STE's/STFM's

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Re: Cubase Audio Dongle Clone

Postby MiggyMog » Wed Jan 19, 2011 11:02 pm

I have used the Steem cart image tool to back up the CAF, ZERO-X & Audio master dongles.
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Re: Cubase Audio Dongle Clone

Postby Mal7921 » Wed Jan 19, 2011 11:47 pm

MiggyMog wrote:I have used the Steem cart image tool to back up the CAF, ZERO-X & Audio master dongles.


I'd read somewhere that this had been tried but had been unsuccessful, though personally I don't see why it shouldn't work. Can you confirm that the software runs with these images?
The collection:

Atari 260ST, 520ST, 520ST+, 520STfm
Atari STe
Atari Falcon, 14MB, 40GB IDE drive

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Re: Cubase Audio Dongle Clone

Postby Dal » Thu Jan 20, 2011 12:54 am

If STeem cart images for the CAF dongle works ok then would it be possible to design a universal cart maybe with some kind of flash memory? You flash the cart with the image you require as you need it from the ST/TT/Falcon itself...
TT030: 4MB/16MB + Crazy Dots, Mega"SST" 12, MegaSTE, STE: Desktopper case, IDE interface, UltraSatan (8GB + 512Mb) + HXC floppy emulator. Plus some STE's/STFM's

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Re: Cubase Audio Dongle Clone

Postby Mal7921 » Thu Jan 20, 2011 1:12 am

Dal wrote:If STeem cart images for the CAF dongle works ok then would it be possible to design a universal cart maybe with some kind of flash memory? You flash the cart with the image you require as you need it from the ST/TT/Falcon itself...


In theory you could just have a cart with multiple images, after all as I mentioned above, I had Cubase Audio and Cubase 3 dongles plugged in to my old MIDEX on my Falcon a few years back, and as the MIDI ports could not be made to work on the Falcon, all it did was act as a port expander. Up to 4 keys could be plugged in at once so you could have had Avalon, Cubase and Cubase audio keys all plugged in at once and just run the program you required. With an all in one dongle, the theory being each program would access the image it required as the programs did with multiple keys in the MIDEX.

Theory is always good, but it is practicality that matters, would this really be possible to do on a single dongle?

Cubase 3 was never hacked as well as Cubase 2 was, it always had those little quirks that stopped it being just right, but the dongled version was the best version of Cubase ever done, as was Cubase Audio 2.06, which was hacked (I have it on AMN), but again is not quite as stable as the dongled version.

This of course is in complete contrast to Cubase version 2, where the cracked versions ran much better than the dongled versions as the copy protection routines would interfere with the timing of Cubase. A number of studio's had the genuine article, but ran the crack as the MIDI timing was tighter and it crashed less often!
The collection:

Atari 260ST, 520ST, 520ST+, 520STfm
Atari STe
Atari Falcon, 14MB, 40GB IDE drive

simbo

Re: Cubase Audio Dongle Clone

Postby simbo » Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:06 am

i dont think you all quite get what the dongle does

its a decoder to decipher in specific ways data to more data

what i need is the pictures of the dongle
so i can assign the i/os

just pics needed for now....
will take about 1month to finish the digitial i/o card addin board
the logic the dongle uses is like an intelligent eprom
and its programmed and locked with a security fuse
the fuse is physicaly blown when its burned

so to map it may not be too hard using steem { :lol: }
however i cant see how someone can 'back up'
any dongle via steem as there is no support for the cart port
this is totaly imposible... for sure !!! :contract:

so.. it would need to be a capture made with cubase running
and while your 'doing things' with the app on hardware
using hardware to map what it does this will give you the basic c struct
when analysed

running the app doing things like save load and run the app
its not just an image
its a very complex bit of code
expressed as a few simplified equasion's

i have started the build the schematic and pcb
and have salvaged a socket from an old ste
ill make the pcb soon that goes in the middle
if i remember the midex requires a driver to be able to use its added midi ports
so perhaps adding this to the falcon will cure access to them

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Re: Cubase Audio Dongle Clone

Postby Dal » Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:55 am

I'll pop open my CAF dongle and take a photo of each side of the board for you.
TT030: 4MB/16MB + Crazy Dots, Mega"SST" 12, MegaSTE, STE: Desktopper case, IDE interface, UltraSatan (8GB + 512Mb) + HXC floppy emulator. Plus some STE's/STFM's

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Re: Cubase Audio Dongle Clone

Postby simbo » Thu Jan 20, 2011 11:17 am

cheers m8

looks like as usual the whole of the rest of the uk has sun and we have pea soup and deep frost

typical .. ehhe

edited

i found them in my desktop clutter folder

recently i lost my o/s on this laptop but i never keep too much past bits of apps and windows in the boot partition

so here is a copy of them again
dont know where i got these if it was the board so..


note on the board the word 'best'

http://www.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-p ... 60-45.html
datasheet for the 16 MACROCELL CMOS PLD
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simbo

Re: Cubase Audio Dongle Clone

Postby simbo » Thu Jan 20, 2011 2:05 pm

so here is what i would use to map the device
using my 40ch digital i/o card

the clk to the chip is connected to the interrupt pin input on the card

the i/o is captured first
then in time the i/o card can be used to run as the dongle
{or a number}

from this code its easy then to see what the device does from the data
very easy
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