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To keep it with copy protection or to not keep with ?

Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 8:40 am
by AtariZoll
I would like that this will be just a poll, to see how many people here prefers one or other approach. So, please give only short explanation why you prefer what you prefer, if want to post and not only to vote. Really no need for some new heavy discussion about what is discussed already many times.

I was always for choice # 2 - because I was able to do it myself, and usually it took really not much time. I like when it loads fast, and copy protections slow it, of course.
To add - this is only about floppy releases (usable with floppy drives, HW floppy emulators), don't want here talk about hard disk adaptations/patches.

Re: To keep it with copy protection or to not keep with ?

Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 9:11 am
by Dal
I would say that #1 is already covered by PASTI, KF and SCP and preserves the original floppies in a digital form. For the casual gamer, #2 every time (especially with trainers!)

Re: To keep it with copy protection or to not keep with ?

Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 9:29 am
by AtariZoll
I meant here mostly running on real HW, but yes, we can consider running of STX and other copy protection holding images in emulators as choice #1 .
Every image is digital, of course, only that detail level is different - simply said.

Re: To keep it with copy protection or to not keep with ?

Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 9:46 am
by troed
Preserve as accurately as possible. That means both originals and cracks. Then use whatever you feel like.

As one of the crackers of old I wouldn't be surprised if I suddenly felt the urge to re-crack one something just to see what I would make different today etc ..

Re: To keep it with copy protection or to not keep with ?

Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 10:04 am
by farvardin
for me it's a bit like DRM in music or media, it's just better without the protections.

Re: To keep it with copy protection or to not keep with ?

Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 10:50 am
by kodak80
I agree with troed. Both are required. Originals with protection and versions without the protection. This way you can choose.

Re: To keep it with copy protection or to not keep with ?

Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 11:13 am
by mrbombermillzy
What Troed said is the best answer.

However if a choice must be made:

In all the years of experience with DRM/copy protection, it ALWAYS harms the legitimate purchaser and often the product can become unusable due to the protection delivery system becoming broken/obsolete.
(i.e. owning the game but losing the manual where you need page x paragraph x line x word verification, owning the original optical media but it being unusable with wear and tear and the publisher is no longer around, using track 0 head banging routines on a C= 1541 drive and thus wearing the drive and causing alignment problems, etc,etc).

Therefore I will go with no.2 provided the cracker isnt too OTT about things.

Re: To keep it with copy protection or to not keep with ?

Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 11:20 am
by dma
(we are here talking about items which have never been spread without protection, in a preservation sense)

I've chosen the first answer, but i feel the need to complete the response, despite the following being obvious.
The copy protected floppy should be preserved with :
- for physical protection : a way to handle the protection
- for manual based protection : a way to get all the possible answers

Anyway, this just can't be answered wisely with single choice,
because enhancement is creation, food for the mind (of the creator and those who check the result), one of the reasons to live.
And as the first home-made enhancements of commercial software have been cracks, which led to demoscene,
the greatness of the art out of this (originally illegal) creativity has a proven it to be a highly valuable act.
Also enhancing a game to give it better routines is an amazing move.
Cheats enhancement are fun as well, but spoiling the original challenge.
Additional levels are also a great enhancement.

But if one wants a forced "choice 1" or "choice 2" only answer, then it's the first one for me.
Because of the risk of a badly working crack in the inner depths of a program, is there as soon as one single bit of it is modified.

Re: To keep it with copy protection or to not keep with ?

Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 12:07 pm
by AtariZoll
Just to note: the question is not what's your choice, but what you prefer.
Of course that having both ways available is best.

Re: To keep it with copy protection or to not keep with ?

Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 1:01 pm
by dlfrsilver
Difficult question. Because both are needed. It's like asking if you prefer your left leg or your right leg. You need both to walk and run.

I agree with Troed. The best answer is both. Originals are the root and the base of preservation. Deprotected versions have their role, because they can be written back on disk more easily.

I'd say i prefer the original, because a crack can always have an unoticed fail (bad crack, and insufficient crack).

Re: To keep it with copy protection or to not keep with ?

Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 7:23 pm
by EmpireAndrew
As said above, there is a good argument to have both.

However, if it was a choice, or a preference (as asked) I prefer with DRM removed so that images can be written back to floppy without any special equipment.
A perfectly preserved thing that can't be used on the machine it was intended to be used on is pointless imho.
I've never understood the almost religious drive for perfect bit for bit preservation of something that can only be run on an emulator, which is surely a less accurate experience thus negating the point.