Interesting case: International 3-D Tennis

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Interesting case: International 3-D Tennis

Postby AtariZoll » Mon Jan 26, 2015 9:56 am

First release was by Palace in 1990, then GBH release in 1992 . On Atarimania there are STX images of both releases. Or maybe not ?
I doubt that Palace release is really with proper image. Why ? Because it is same 100% as GBH release. And why it is problem ?
Here comes interesting part of this, and not only this title:
GBH release is done almost certainly by some pirate, cracker. After loading first stage, which is packed by slow, but among crackers popular ICE packer, there are some writes in that code - obviously deactivation of copy protection check. After that it loads and depacks other parts (all ICEd) . Why some publisher would use services of cracker ? Because they could save them money ! GBH release is on 1 SS floppy, and without copy protection. So, you can duplicate it with cheap equipment. Much cheaper than 1 DS or 2 SS floppy with copy protection. And in 1992 protecting some Atari title had not much sense, I think, especially if it is re-release, so already cracked.
it is sure that there was release of this with copy protection - otherwise there would be not code for deactivating it. This is why I'm suspicious about that STX image of Palace release at AtariMania.
Other similar release is for instance Escape From Planed of the Robot Monsters in some compilation.

If anyone has Palace edition of International 3D Tennis, should be from 1990, please make STX or SCP, KryoFlux image of it if has equipment, or at least inform us on how much floppies is it.
Famous Schrodinger's cat hypothetical experiment says that cat is dead or alive until we open box and see condition of poor animal, which deserved better logic. Cat is always in some certain state - regardless from is observer able or not to see what the state is.

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Re: Interesting case: International 3-D Tennis

Postby greatguy » Mon Jan 26, 2015 11:37 am

I believe that I have the Palace release of 3-d tennis, but the disk(s) was corrupted if I remember correctly. I can doublecheck this when Im home from work.
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Re: Interesting case: International 3-D Tennis

Postby AtariZoll » Mon Jan 26, 2015 2:35 pm

greatguy wrote:I believe that I have the Palace release of 3-d tennis, but the disk(s) was corrupted if I remember correctly. I can doublecheck this when Im home from work.

Pls. image it even if is damaged - that will help in clarifying things.
Famous Schrodinger's cat hypothetical experiment says that cat is dead or alive until we open box and see condition of poor animal, which deserved better logic. Cat is always in some certain state - regardless from is observer able or not to see what the state is.

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Re: Interesting case: International 3-D Tennis

Postby greatguy » Mon Jan 26, 2015 6:41 pm

AtariZoll wrote:Pls. image it even if is damaged - that will help in clarifying things.


The disk are in really bad shape and would probably damage the floppydrive if I tried to make an image. :(
But I can atleast share a scan of the disk.

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Re: Interesting case: International 3-D Tennis

Postby Stefan jL » Mon Jan 26, 2015 6:52 pm

When yo usay it is in "bad shape".. do you mean it is dirty? You could try and clean it.
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Re: Interesting case: International 3-D Tennis

Postby greatguy » Mon Jan 26, 2015 7:01 pm

Stefan jL wrote:When yo usay it is in "bad shape".. do you mean it is dirty? You could try and clean it.

I allways clean my disks before making an image. But this disk sounds like someone is trying to strangle a cat when putting it in the drive!!
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Re: Interesting case: International 3-D Tennis

Postby AtariZoll » Mon Jan 26, 2015 7:33 pm

OK. Would be good to know at least is it single or double sided.

Btw. both editions (as said they are same) have same error: too much data in files 2 and 3 - there is part of source code well visible when you depack it :) That happens when cracker is not sure about concrete file size, and therefore for safety adds some overhead.

Some will say that I'm crazy and disrespectful, but this is case of crack sold as original :lol:
Famous Schrodinger's cat hypothetical experiment says that cat is dead or alive until we open box and see condition of poor animal, which deserved better logic. Cat is always in some certain state - regardless from is observer able or not to see what the state is.

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Re: Interesting case: International 3-D Tennis

Postby JimDrew » Mon Jan 26, 2015 7:37 pm

There is a LOT of that going on right now on eBay. Someone in the UK is selling Amiga disks and Atari ST disks that are silkscreen'd to look somewhat like the original, and some cases there is a cracked version copied on the disk - but most cases are copies made with either Catweasel or Kryoflux.
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Re: Interesting case: International 3-D Tennis

Postby AtariZoll » Mon Jan 26, 2015 8:40 pm

Yes, World is full with cheaters and greedy people. But we talk about unprotected release(s) from 1990 and 1992. And not only case, as said.
Famous Schrodinger's cat hypothetical experiment says that cat is dead or alive until we open box and see condition of poor animal, which deserved better logic. Cat is always in some certain state - regardless from is observer able or not to see what the state is.

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Re: Interesting case: International 3-D Tennis

Postby Mug UK » Mon Jan 26, 2015 9:42 pm

Zippy / Medway boys mentioned that he was hired to hack (or repackage his original hacks) for a budget distributor in the early 90s. This could be one of his.

I'm sure I had some source code examples by him which showed his handiwork, but I can only find his ZIPLoad source code at the moment :(
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Re: Interesting case: International 3-D Tennis

Postby Zogging Hell » Mon Jan 26, 2015 11:07 pm

greatguy wrote:
Stefan jL wrote:When yo usay it is in "bad shape".. do you mean it is dirty? You could try and clean it.

I allways clean my disks before making an image. But this disk sounds like someone is trying to strangle a cat when putting it in the drive!!


Could be the paper disk cleaner thing in there is breaking up or snagging on the disk surface somehow. Unless there are visible scratches it may well be fixable. You could try breaking the disk open down the join if you're not worried about it and replacing the paper thingy with one from a donor disk (or just getting rid of it permanantly, but the former is the better option). While the disk is open you could give it a good clean with a cotton bud and alcohol if it looks dirty.
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Re: Interesting case: International 3-D Tennis

Postby Brume » Mon Jan 26, 2015 11:13 pm

I have the Palace release, but the first disk doesn't boot at all. I don't know where it's damaged exactly... The previous owner tried maybe an antivirus or something like that, who knows?
It fit on two disks. Second disk may be OK (at least it displays the boot message: "Wrong disk - Insert disk 1").
Not sure you really want this, AtariZoll. If so, let me know and I'll provide you a link to download it.

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Re: Interesting case: International 3-D Tennis

Postby greatguy » Tue Jan 27, 2015 9:25 am

Zogging Hell wrote:Could be the paper disk cleaner thing in there is breaking up or snagging on the disk surface somehow. Unless there are visible scratches it may well be fixable. You could try breaking the disk open down the join if you're not worried about it and replacing the paper thingy with one from a donor disk (or just getting rid of it permanantly, but the former is the better option). While the disk is open you could give it a good clean with a cotton bud and alcohol if it looks dirty.

Unfortunately there are visible scratches on the disk surface. So I believe its a lost cause. :(
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Re: Interesting case: International 3-D Tennis

Postby AtariZoll » Tue Jan 27, 2015 9:34 am

Brume wrote:I have the Palace release, but the first disk doesn't boot at all. I don't know where it's damaged exactly... The previous owner tried maybe an antivirus or something like that, who knows?
It fit on two disks. Second disk may be OK (at least it displays the boot message: "Wrong disk - Insert disk 1").
Not sure you really want this, AtariZoll. If so, let me know and I'll provide you a link to download it.


Yes, please image both disks. We are on right way to determine things, I'm sure - partially confirmed already by fact that there are 2 floppies. Even if first one is damaged, it can give us useful informations.
Famous Schrodinger's cat hypothetical experiment says that cat is dead or alive until we open box and see condition of poor animal, which deserved better logic. Cat is always in some certain state - regardless from is observer able or not to see what the state is.

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Re: Interesting case: International 3-D Tennis

Postby Brume » Tue Jan 27, 2015 9:37 am


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Re: Interesting case: International 3-D Tennis

Postby AtariZoll » Tue Jan 27, 2015 7:22 pm

Thanx Brume. I was able to reconstruct damaged data - bootsector on floppy A was overwritten by some antivirus SW, what made game not startable. Other data seems intact. I Post here fixed floppy A STX image. Note that it works only in Hatari 1.8 . There is some tricky protection and anti hacker code in . I think that DrCoolZic can analyze protection - it is on track 1, and OK. Seems same on both floppies.
Edit: file removed - there is better, more complete one few posts lower.
Last edited by AtariZoll on Thu Jan 29, 2015 9:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
Famous Schrodinger's cat hypothetical experiment says that cat is dead or alive until we open box and see condition of poor animal, which deserved better logic. Cat is always in some certain state - regardless from is observer able or not to see what the state is.

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Re: Interesting case: International 3-D Tennis

Postby Maartau » Tue Jan 27, 2015 8:15 pm

AtariZoll wrote:Thanx Brume. I was able to reconstruct damaged data - bootsector on floppy A was overwritten by some antivirus SW, what made game not startable. Other data seems intact. I Post here fixed floppy A STX image. Note that it works only in Hatari 1.8 . There is some tricky protection and anti hacker code in . I think that DrCoolZic can analyze protection - it is on track 1, and OK. Seems same on both floppies.


Yes, this nasty GFA-Immun by Donald P Maple is a plague : had it by the past & considered all exec. boot as virii :roll: .

What I don't understand is how/why sellers don't tell the disks are "dead" before selling...

BTW the 2 disks version is hard to find, all versions I found from now are 1 disk only :( .

Agree with you Atarizoll about the protection.

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Re: Interesting case: International 3-D Tennis

Postby Steven Seagal » Wed Jan 28, 2015 10:15 pm

AtariZoll wrote:Thanx Brume. I was able to reconstruct damaged data - bootsector on floppy A was overwritten by some antivirus SW, what made game not startable. Other data seems intact. I Post here fixed floppy A STX image. Note that it works only in Hatari 1.8 . There is some tricky protection and anti hacker code in . I think that DrCoolZic can analyze protection - it is on track 1, and OK. Seems same on both floppies.
INT3D_AR.ZIP


Checked this with Steem 3.2 and 3.6, it loads with TOS 1.04, 1.62, crashes with 1.02.
So it seems to be a problem of config?

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Re: Interesting case: International 3-D Tennis

Postby AtariZoll » Wed Jan 28, 2015 10:57 pm

Steven Seagal wrote:Checked this with Steem 3.2 and 3.6, it loads with TOS 1.04, 1.62, crashes with 1.02.
So it seems to be a problem of config?

You should check longer. It starts with TOS 1.04 for instance, but will freeze later, at credit screen.

And little headache for you: it drives IKBD chip crazy. In Steem SSE 3.7Beta when 6301 emul. is on can not navigate first menu. Talking about version which is fixed, and works well in Steem 3.2 (except that can not return to Desktop) and Hatari, but same problem appears on Falcon too. I need more tests on real HW, and then will post it here.
Famous Schrodinger's cat hypothetical experiment says that cat is dead or alive until we open box and see condition of poor animal, which deserved better logic. Cat is always in some certain state - regardless from is observer able or not to see what the state is.

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Re: Interesting case: International 3-D Tennis

Postby Steven Seagal » Wed Jan 28, 2015 11:35 pm

AtariZoll wrote:
Steven Seagal wrote:Checked this with Steem 3.2 and 3.6, it loads with TOS 1.04, 1.62, crashes with 1.02.
So it seems to be a problem of config?

You should check longer. It starts with TOS 1.04 for instance, but will freeze later, at credit screen.

And little headache for you: it drives IKBD chip crazy. In Steem SSE 3.7Beta when 6301 emul. is on can not navigate first menu. Talking about version which is fixed, and works well in Steem 3.2 (except that can not return to Desktop) and Hatari, but same problem appears on Falcon too. I need more tests on real HW, and then will post it here.


Unfortunately the link by Brume tells my browser is outdated, so I only have your disk A, which loads to "insert B".

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Re: Interesting case: International 3-D Tennis

Postby AtariZoll » Thu Jan 29, 2015 9:38 am

OK, here are both images. And I updated bootsector, so will start on lame TOS 1.02 too. But will stop at credits, as said.

INT3DTENR.ZIP
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Famous Schrodinger's cat hypothetical experiment says that cat is dead or alive until we open box and see condition of poor animal, which deserved better logic. Cat is always in some certain state - regardless from is observer able or not to see what the state is.

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Re: Interesting case: International 3-D Tennis

Postby Maartau » Thu Jan 29, 2015 3:38 pm

:cheers:

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Re: Interesting case: International 3-D Tennis

Postby Steven Seagal » Thu Jan 29, 2015 9:15 pm

AtariZoll wrote:OK, here are both images. And I updated bootsector, so will start on lame TOS 1.02 too. But will stop at credits, as said.

INT3DTENR.ZIP


No it loads to menu (dev build), but like you said there's a problem with 6301 emu on, it works without.

EDIT: the problem turns out to be conflict with my hack for Jumping Jackson on Auto239.
Fixed now but it's just a better hack.
It has to do with the rotating bit sequence 11001100... that reflects mouse movement.
Thx for the report.

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Re: Interesting case: International 3-D Tennis

Postby AtariZoll » Fri Jan 30, 2015 11:08 am

Actually, True IKBD emul. in Steem SSE is pretty accurate. The problem is that this is done by coders not experienced with Atari ST. There is lot of crap in intro, and in game code. I needed to fix on some 10 places, and add IKBD reset 2x to make it work on real HW - and then it worked fine with true IKBD emul too :D
For instance for floppy access XBIOS 8 is used, what is sign that they knew not well FDC programming, and additionally there was stupid write to DMA chip, what made chaos with UltraSatan :x
Here can get hard disk adapt, with fixed problems: http://atari.8bitchip.info/SCRSH/int3dten.html

But this sad story is not finished. It still starts not from STX images of Palace release (what is only real original), except in Hatari 1.8, and maybe in some devel. v. of Steem. I'm not sure is that because of tricky protection, or crappy code (would be not first case, remember Warp crack ?) . So, I will post question in game section about how this worked on real HW. Probably I need to make floppy version too with fixed bad IKBD and other code.
Famous Schrodinger's cat hypothetical experiment says that cat is dead or alive until we open box and see condition of poor animal, which deserved better logic. Cat is always in some certain state - regardless from is observer able or not to see what the state is.

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Re: Interesting case: International 3-D Tennis

Postby Steven Seagal » Fri Jan 30, 2015 12:06 pm

Right, the 1st hack was correct then...

I checked with v3.6.4 and fixed pasti, it just loads, so maybe check options?


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