TOS 1.00 & CosmosEx

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LangeOortjes
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TOS 1.00 & CosmosEx

Postby LangeOortjes » Mon Dec 12, 2016 9:09 pm

Today, I received my CosmosEx device. I immediately wanted to boot it to good use so I connected everything up and booted the device. However, I noticed that with the ASCI connector plugged into my Atari, sometimes the screen would not turn on (using an SM124) or would show a distorted image without actually booting.

When my Atari 1040STf managed to boot, I look at the status web page, I see that everything is okay except for the "Hard Drive IF" which does not receive any signals.

status.png


Then I read this sentence on the CosmosEx website that TOS 1.00 is not supported.

Could this be the source of my troubles?
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Re: TOS 1.00 & CosmosEx

Postby Android8675 » Mon Dec 12, 2016 10:16 pm

I had the same problem with a stock 1040STf. When I installed 1.04 ROMs the problems went away. It COULD be possible to fix the TOS 1.00 issues, but I suspect it'll require a bit of research on Jookie or someone elses part. Most of use just chose to get the 1.04 ROMs off eBay.

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Re: TOS 1.00 & CosmosEx

Postby 1st1 » Mon Dec 12, 2016 10:32 pm

TOS 1.00 has too many bugs with harddrives. I won't use it with CE.
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Re: TOS 1.00 & CosmosEx

Postby ijor » Tue Dec 13, 2016 1:09 am

I used all sort of hard disks with TOS 1.0 for years without any problems (not with CE). It has some bugs. But they are well known and drivers usually know how to workaround them.

TOS 1.04 is nice, but it has some compatibility problems if you want to run older games.

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Re: TOS 1.00 & CosmosEx

Postby nukebloodaxe » Tue Dec 13, 2016 6:56 am

I agree, ijor, TOS 1.0 can be used with HDDs without problems if you are careful. As a child, I grew up with a 1040stfm that had TOS 1.0, and no way of upgrading it due to my location at the time. I used it in conjunction with an ICD ACSI to SCSI converter and generally found it to be rock solid.
Personally, however, I would have preferred to have used TOS 1.02 due to other tweaks that were in that version; plus the enhanced compatibility.

Now, LangeOortjes, there is a quick and dirty way of fixing some of the TOS problems, and that is to use a TOS loader such as SelTOS, which will allow you to load in a different TOS version such as 1.02 or 1.04. Although it will use a bit more memory than usual, it would be a good stop-gap until you can perform a TOS upgrade: http://www.atari-wiki.com/index.php/Tos_2.06_Additional_software_mentioned#t206_seltos

Exxosuk also has a nice switchable upgrade kit on his webstore, as well as original UK TOS 1.02 ROMS, and one 1.04 UK TOS ROM set: https://www.exxoshost.co.uk/atari/last/storenew/

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Re: TOS 1.00 & CosmosEx

Postby LangeOortjes » Tue Dec 13, 2016 7:16 am

Thank you all. I will open my Atari tonight and see whether it uses 2 or 6 ROM's and then upgrade TOS. Hopefully, I can fit in some original ROM's. Otherwise, I may get out my old EPROM-programmer and a DOS-machine.

I will also experiment a bit with TOS Loader as well.

I am happy to hear that my problems are most likely related to the TOS version.

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Re: TOS 1.00 & CosmosEx

Postby tin » Tue Dec 13, 2016 8:24 am

Hello LangeOortjes, welcome to our community :)

LangeOortjes wrote:However, I noticed that with the ASCI connector plugged into my Atari, sometimes the screen would not turn on (using an SM124) or would show a distorted image without actually booting.


This is not likely to be a TOS 1.0 issue. Is this an SCSI/ACSI or an ACSI only device? To quote the CosmosEx Quickstart guide (http://joo.kie.sk/?page_id=704):
If your CosmosEx v2 is a SCSI version, please be advised that it is configured to act as a SCSI device by factory. You have to open up your device and remove two resistor arrays and add a jumper to switch to ACSI mode. See http://joo.kie.sk/?page_id=668 for a walkthrough with pictures. You can’t sitch the modes just by switching cables!


LangeOortjes wrote:I see that everything is okay except for the "Hard Drive IF" which does not receive any signals.


Could you post your config? This means that your ST hasn't talked to the CE's ACSI port, which isn't a TOS 1.0 problem per se.

The TOS 1.0 support wasn't dropped because of problems with it's harddisk feature (basic HDD usage on TOS 1.0 can work fine, as ijor said) - it was dropped because the more advanced features (like translated network drives, Windows formatted thumbsticks etc.) require rather sophisticated drivers and trickery on the TOS side - and those features (and also future features) won't work well with TOS 1.0, which is frankly buggy as hell.

My main concern is your "not booting, video distorted" problem, that's far from normal.

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Re: TOS 1.00 & CosmosEx

Postby ijor » Tue Dec 13, 2016 11:26 am

tin wrote:The TOS 1.0 support wasn't dropped because of problems with it's harddisk feature (basic HDD usage on TOS 1.0 can work fine, as ijor said) - it was dropped because the more advanced features (like translated network drives, Windows formatted thumbsticks etc.) require rather sophisticated drivers and trickery on the TOS side - and those features (and also future features) won't work well with TOS 1.0, which is frankly buggy as hell.


Hi Tin. That means that basic HD usage, with something like ICD Pro drivers should work fine with the CE?

And btw, RPI model 3 is already supported?

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Re: TOS 1.00 & CosmosEx

Postby DarkLord » Tue Dec 13, 2016 11:42 am

I would highly recommend anyone using TOS v1.00 with mass storage devices
to upgrade to TOS v1.04 at least...
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Re: TOS 1.00 & CosmosEx

Postby tin » Tue Dec 13, 2016 1:49 pm

ijor wrote:Hi Tin. That means that basic HD usage, with something like ICD Pro drivers should work fine with the CE?

I used it quite a lot with my old 1040ST with TOS 1.0 and also with a 520 ST (old MMU) TOS 1.0. There's some time passed since I used it with ICD pro (mostly using HDDRIVER), so I can't be sure ATM. Have to retest.

ijor wrote:And btw, RPI model 3 is already supported?

Yes, it is - see http://joo.kie.sk/cosmosex/shop/index.php?route=product/product&path=59&product_id=51.

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Re: TOS 1.00 & CosmosEx

Postby AtariZoll » Tue Dec 13, 2016 2:05 pm

+ problems with TOS 1.00 are some extra limitations of FAT16 filesystem - so max 256MB/partition, smaller folder buffer, then slower work. It is normal that later versions are much better - 1.04 is where it reached some decent level, and what is in 1.62 and 2.06 is not much better.
Compatibility with some older games may be problem, but that"s mostly because bad coding, and can be patched, or better: in hard disk adaptations TOS version problems are solved in most cases. So, yes: updating to 1.04 is almost mandatory.
P.S. there are some games which work under 1.04 and fail under 1.02.
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Re: TOS 1.00 & CosmosEx

Postby ijor » Wed Dec 14, 2016 2:22 am

Indeed, TOS 1.0 can't cope with big partitions (IIRC the limit is even smaller than 256MB). But for small partitions is just fine and works without problems.

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Re: TOS 1.00 & CosmosEx

Postby ijor » Wed Dec 14, 2016 2:24 am

tin wrote: ... and also with a 520 ST (old MMU) TOS 1.0.


Just out of curiosity, why you mention the older MMU? AFAIK the differences are very minor and should not affect hard disk operations. Or you found it has some relevance?

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Re: TOS 1.00 & CosmosEx

Postby LangeOortjes » Wed Dec 14, 2016 7:50 am

tin wrote:Hello LangeOortjes, welcome to our community :)
This is not likely to be a TOS 1.0 issue. Is this an SCSI/ACSI or an ACSI only device? To quote the CosmosEx Quickstart guide (http://joo.kie.sk/?page_id=704):
If your CosmosEx v2 is a SCSI version, please be advised that it is configured to act as a SCSI device by factory. You have to open up your device and remove two resistor arrays and add a jumper to switch to ACSI mode. See http://joo.kie.sk/?page_id=668 for a walkthrough with pictures. You can’t sitch the modes just by switching cables!

Hey, that could be it. I do have a version with the 50-pin SCSI connector on the back. The resistor arrays appear to be present. So that might very well be the problem then. I will experiment with this tomorrow!

tin wrote:Could you post your config? This means that your ST hasn't talked to the CE's ACSI port, which isn't a TOS 1.0 problem per se.


Okay, good to know I might get some more mileage out of my original ROM set. I will post my config after I've switched the device to ACSI mode!

I will still upgrade to TOS 1.04 I think. If just for the experience of figuring out how to upgrade alone ;)

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Re: TOS 1.00 & CosmosEx

Postby tin » Wed Dec 14, 2016 8:38 am

ijor wrote:AFAIK the differences are very minor and should not affect hard disk operations. Or you found it has some relevance?

Just a way to say "very old board revision", nothing else.

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Re: TOS 1.00 & CosmosEx

Postby nanard » Wed Dec 14, 2016 9:07 am

I've tried CosmosEx with a 1.00TOS 1040STF and it works well. At least with translated drives (USB sticks)
I think the 1.00 bugs will matter when using SD-Cards + a HD driver
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Re: TOS 1.00 & CosmosEx

Postby tin » Wed Dec 14, 2016 1:05 pm

LangeOortjes wrote:Hey, that could be it. I do have a version with the 50-pin SCSI connector on the back. The resistor arrays appear to be present. So that might very well be the problem then. I will experiment with this tomorrow!

You'll see the current config in the CosmosEx config screen. If it says "SCSI" there, that's your problem then.

LangeOortjes wrote:I will still upgrade to TOS 1.04 I think. If just for the experience of figuring out how to upgrade alone ;)

You definitely should, like others said. And after all TOS 1.0 isn't a supported CosmosEx target OS, aka "the developers can't help if problems with TOS 1.0 arise". It's simply too unstable.

But to sum up and to get back to the topic of your initial question: these symptoms are not related to the TOS version - it seems to be a misconfiguration of the jumper and terminator which configure the hardware either into SCSI (default) or ACSI mode. To set ACSI mode, every factory-state ACSI/SCSI CosmosEx has to be opened and reconfigured manually by it's owner.

Looking forward to your results.

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Re: TOS 1.00 & CosmosEx

Postby LangeOortjes » Wed Dec 14, 2016 7:26 pm

A quick update. My CosmosEx was indeed configured as a SCSI device. Romoving the resistor arrays and setting the jumper got the O-drive to appear! However, enabling anything but the 'ce_dd' drive, be it as the one with the lowest or a higher ID, causes the O-drive to disappear.

I've got a Windows 95 machine ready, all I need is a parallel cable to connect it and I am good to burn me some EPROM's!

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Re: TOS 1.00 & CosmosEx

Postby tin » Wed Dec 14, 2016 8:17 pm

LangeOortjes wrote:A quick update. My CosmosEx was indeed configured as a SCSI device. Romoving the resistor arrays and setting the jumper got the O-drive to appear!

Glad to hear that!

LangeOortjes wrote:However, enabling anything but the 'ce_dd' drive, be it as the one with the lowest or a higher ID, causes the O-drive to disappear.

Did the ce_dd driver load? If it did load and O isn't shown on the desktop the drive is there, just not visible. You have to install the drive(s) on the desktop.

Configuring harddisks tends to get fairly complex. I highly recomend to read and reread the docs (especially DrCoolZics and the Quickstart guide) as you progress through the setup. It will prevent a lot of pain :)

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Re: TOS 1.00 & CosmosEx

Postby LangeOortjes » Sat Dec 17, 2016 12:10 pm

The ce_dd driver does load indeed. I will first concern myself with updating TOS before trying to get the hard disks to work. I see drivers en functionality only support TOS version 1.02 or greater. So best to sort TOS out first!


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