Apollo Team announces developing of Vampire standalone version to run as AMIGA and ATARI ST

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Re: Apollo Team announces developing of Vampire standalone version to run as AMIGA and ATARI ST

Postby Mathias » Wed Nov 23, 2016 2:14 am

1st1 wrote:More powerfill as Firebee ever could be(e).


You still do not understand the basics. After you annoyed us at atari-home.de, you continue to tell crap here.

Once again: The Vampire card (the new "huge one") has the same FPGA like the FireBee! You will not make anything better, not for the Atari community, not for the Apollo team with your attitude to post enthusiastic stuff, and creating wrong expectations.
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Re: Apollo Team announces developing of Vampire standalone version to run as AMIGA and ATARI ST

Postby 1st1 » Wed Nov 23, 2016 6:03 am

@matthias: wring. You only worry because of your Firebee.
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Re: Apollo Team announces developing of Vampire standalone version to run as AMIGA and ATARI ST

Postby vido » Wed Nov 23, 2016 7:00 am

1st1 wrote:@matthias: wring. You only worry because of your Firebee.

You have nothing to show regarding Apolo and Atari and you really talk crap here. I really hope there will be something out of Apollo regarding Atari but please stop talking nonsese here. You really annoy me with your crap!

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Re: Apollo Team announces developing of Vampire standalone version to run as AMIGA and ATARI ST

Postby 1st1 » Wed Nov 23, 2016 7:15 am

Then don't read here. Just wait and you will be happy.
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Re: Apollo Team announces developing of Vampire standalone version to run as AMIGA and ATARI ST

Postby mfro » Wed Nov 23, 2016 7:35 am

Yes.

I think everything has been said and written here for informed people to decide. Apollo appears to be a promising attempt, but nothing more (yet).

If 1ST1 insists that he best serves the community with making a fool out of himself with uninformed daydreams, I reckon it's his decision.

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Re: Apollo Team announces developing of Vampire standalone version to run as AMIGA and ATARI ST

Postby calimero » Wed Nov 23, 2016 8:51 am

^
he still is not at Simbo level :D
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Re: Apollo Team announces developing of Vampire standalone version to run as AMIGA and ATARI ST

Postby Mathias » Wed Nov 23, 2016 12:22 pm

1st1 wrote:@matthias: wring. You only worry because of your Firebee.
We had this already a few weeks ago as well. The ACP and one of its products "FireBee" is an Open Source project without any commercial interrest. So no, nobody worries about any new development. Any new hardware for the Atari community is a good thing.
And even if I am posting most about the FireBee, it is not "my FireBee". There have been contributions from more than 100 people. That is again something you do not get. But please stop telling lies and posting provocations.
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Re: Apollo Team announces developing of Vampire standalone version to run as AMIGA and ATARI ST

Postby 1st1 » Wed Nov 23, 2016 1:40 pm

I know that there is a team behind firebee. But you are always the one who defense it very strong against very logical arguments. But maybe some of them now work already on the new platform based on Apollo 68080. So why instead of being happy you shot against me and them? Nobody tells that the new thing will be commercial as it will be based on open source components like firebee, like mist, like suska, like supervidel, like EmuTOS, like MiNT. (this is absolutely compareable to Firebee as Coldfire, like Apollo processor core, is not open source.) One of the guys working on it earns it's money with solar panels. Also the Apollo team has othet things as job, no wrong, they are processor design guys, but Apollo is their hobby.

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Re: Apollo Team announces developing of Vampire standalone version to run as AMIGA and ATARI ST

Postby Mathias » Wed Nov 23, 2016 2:24 pm

1st1 wrote:But you are always the one who defense it very strong against very logical arguments.
There are no "logical arguments". You are putting extreme pressure to everybody, including the Appolo team, by creating wrong expectations. When I defend the FireBee design it is a direct reaction to people who tell crap. And one of these crappy statement was that the FireBee cannot be as fast as an Vampire – what is obviously wrong when there are the exact same consumer FPGAs.

1st1 wrote:But maybe some of them now work already on the new platform based on Apollo 68080.
Perhaps, and if so, why not? Every development can only be achived together. What do you expect? That if somebody works inside the ACP he is not doing anything else? That if e.g. Vincent is giving tips to the Apollo team, that he doesn´t code for other projects anymore. All that is so far away from how real collaboration may work, ... You are permanentely trying to create some rivalry that is not in existance!

1st1 wrote:So why instead of being happy you shot against me and them?
I am not shooting against "them". As I told you several times, I had nice contact with Gunnar in the past. Also he supported us at minor questions as far as he could. I am arguing against you, when you write absolutely wrong postings. That´s it. What you are doing it pulling the wool over Atari cummunity eyes!
As I am for years inside a Atari hardware project I know what it means to get something done. It is hard work for years, and nothing that is "nearly ready" like you present it all the time.


1st1 wrote: Making ATARI St series and Amiga great again.

wow, … nothing more to tell here.
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Re: Apollo Team announces developing of Vampire standalone version to run as AMIGA and ATARI ST

Postby 1st1 » Wed Nov 23, 2016 4:37 pm

Have you talked to Gunnar / Apollo team for checking possibility to cooperate, like also Johannes proposed to do so? Yes or no? Maybe takled to the other team who is cooperating with Apollo team, which already works on it since many monthes? Yes or no? Checked if it is possible to integrate 68080 into Firebee FPGA? Yes or no? Checked if it possible that 68080 can access to the main memory, PCI, ethernet, USB and so on which is attached to the coldfire for direct access by 68080 CPU (without the help of coldfire where all this is attached to, see firebee block diagram) ? Yes or No?

Why fireing here and make all ideas bad?

Ps: If you don't want to answer these questions in the public, we can continue by PN.

Ps: Logic argument is that Coldfire is not the ideal processor for ATARI platform. Also Apollo team decided that Coldfire is not good for Amiga platform, so they decided to make their own. This is because Coldfire is not compatible enough for many applications (and Amiga-OS 3.x). We know there is wrapper/illegal instruction handler. But this is slow and still Calamus and Cubase don't work. And many other applications as well not. This is the reason the Apollo team decided to make their own processor. And you know, the other team says Firebee is dead, because of that, and they also use Apollo 68080. Additionally with Coldfire you have dependencies on availability of Coldfire, now the processor is in the hands of Qualcom, third or fourth owner, after they bought NXP. Who can guarantee that Coldfire has a future? Apollo 68080 can run in Cyclone III FPGA, it can run in Cyclone IV FPGA, or any other, the platform gets more independency that way. When using standard 68k instructions the Apolloo 68080 is now at 80% of the perfornmance of Coldfire (as long as Coldfire has not to emulate non existing 68K instructions) with less then half clock speed, Coldfire can not play MPEG more smooth than PPC 650MHz, 68080 can do because it has AMMX multimedia instructions. (this comparison is based at Cyclone III FPGA at 90 Mhz, Coldfire has some 250 MHz). Very logic arguments which you don't understand.
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Re: Apollo Team announces developing of Vampire standalone version to run as AMIGA and ATARI ST

Postby Mathias » Wed Nov 23, 2016 6:25 pm

Man, you are in absolute no postition to demand anything. But it is impressive, how you continue to act offending and annoying.

In opposite to you we know what the hardware COULD do. You are reframing every "possibility" that Gunnar is talking about to an oficial announcement what the Apollo team is working on. And that is one of the points why you are really dangerous.
The ACP always planned some FPGA CPU as further compatibility layer. But thats another point you never understood. The Apollo-team even could create an commercial addon for flashing the core into the FireBee, and would get support by us. The great idea you feel you got now, is somthing where others like Wolfgang Förster with his Suska Cores, or Nature with their Supervidel core are working towards for more than a decade now! The Suska project also was the basis for the FireBee core, like we always made clear. So what is your point about getting things done inside an FPGA? If you do not understand what the combination of an huge FPGA and the fastest and nearest CPU to 68k, the V4e is, stop stating about such a hardware. Especially your poor trys to compare "speeds" and creating competitions are useless. Every development like Emus/VMs, 060 upgrades, VHDL configs, V4es have their pros and cons. And all are under development for years as far as the entire Atari community can handle them.

Also there is no "other team" at all. And for sure nobody is working for months towards an "Atari-Apollo". That are just lies and pressure to those who are willing to support it. At all sides - Apollo team and Atari developers side, atari users. Once again, stop this.
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Re: Apollo Team announces developing of Vampire standalone version to run as AMIGA and ATARI ST

Postby vido » Wed Nov 23, 2016 7:25 pm

1st1 now it is really time to shut up as you are telling mostly lies, speculations and doing hype like Apollo is the only way for future Atari community!!!
Its nothing wrong if you are enthusiastic, but if you want to divide well established community with lies etc. is by my opinion the time you to go ...

FireBee project is a project of a community. Why should Mathias talk to anyone regarding Apollo? He is inwolved in the FireBee project and has a lot to show compared to Apollo which has nothing regarding Atari computers. If you want to cooperate at FireBee project you are free to ask those questions and take care of them, but you have no right to demand anything from aynone! There is no company behind the project making money of it. Except producer of the board which has nothing with it.

Only onr firein here is you! Fireing with lies and specatulations!

As there is a computer with the Coldfire CPU, running Atari software, with users using it, new users on the way, hopefully also new developers. If Coldfire doesnt fit to Amiga community or you, you can not speak in the name of others as there are users which payed the product with it and are using it! For now is Apollo just unfinished CPU with possibilty to be more suitable for most of Atari community. I hope it will be so!

Now tell me who says the FireBee is dead? For you it can be. No problem. But in whos name you are sayin so? I am the member of the team. For me it is not dead. Now we are in the process of shipping new FireBees of almost outselled the whole serie before it was produced. Explain by what citeries the FireBee is dead?

Coldfire is not in the hands of Qualcom neither was in the hands of NXP! Check facts before you tell something! For now Coldfire has much stronger future as Apollo has!!!

I know Apollo can run in faster FPGAs. But it seems you dont know Coldfire also runs in FPGAs. Actually in new products Coldfire is mostly used in FPGAs.
And from your words it is obvious you have no idea what Coldfire can do and how it is awailable. Not even who owns the rights of Coldfire :)

And this text has nothing to do with liking or not of Apollo project! Actually I like it a lot!
But for now there is nothing more to show as unfinished CPU! From my experiences there is some more years to wait to see some usefull Atari standalone based on Apollo core. And dont do such a hype out of it. Contraya to Amiga scene Atari has some fast standalone computers!

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Re: Apollo Team announces developing of Vampire standalone version to run as AMIGA and ATARI ST

Postby Frank B » Wed Nov 23, 2016 8:29 pm

You can buy the Firebee right now! You can't buy a vampire for the ST. We've not even seen any videos of it running yet. One is vapour and the other is not. End of discussion.

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Re: Apollo Team announces developing of Vampire standalone version to run as AMIGA and ATARI ST

Postby 1st1 » Wed Nov 23, 2016 8:30 pm

OMG...

Yes, you are right, there is no appollo based ATARI clone presented yet. Anyhow, it's you who fire against it. I can understand the guys working on it wery well that they don't announce anything yet. We can see the reactions here, defending firebee, talking about varpor, onyl real motorola is real machine, licencing points and whatever. Always only worries.

Apollo team just demanded for help and I spreaded their request here. Some help now, other worry and fire against everything. sad.

I will not answer on any posting in this thread anymore which is unconstructive. All has been said.
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Re: Apollo Team announces developing of Vampire standalone version to run as AMIGA and ATARI ST

Postby Mathias » Wed Nov 23, 2016 8:55 pm

1st1 wrote:fire against it.
Next lie. We are not fireing agains Apollo, but against your way of "discussing"!

1st1 wrote:I will not answer on any posting in this thread anymore which is unconstructive.
You really do not see that your provocations and wrong informations are the problen? Really?
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Re: Apollo Team announces developing of Vampire standalone version to run as AMIGA and ATARI ST

Postby joska » Wed Nov 23, 2016 9:13 pm

Mathias wrote:Next lie. We are not fireing agains Apollo, but against your way of "discussing"!


This.

I'd say that any Atari user who looking for an accelerator would put a Vampire ST on top (or atleast very close to the top!) of his/hers wishlist. However, talking trash about other projects is not a very good marketing strategy...
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Re: Apollo Team announces developing of Vampire standalone version to run as AMIGA and ATARI ST

Postby Sorgelig » Thu Nov 24, 2016 6:58 am

The design which will be compatible with more original software developed 20 years ago will be more successful. Gimmicks like video playback won't change anything. Everyone has at least smartphone which can play the video with less hassle than any new CPU in Amiga/Atari.
Look at New Genaration Amiga - it hasn't become a part of Amiga community. It was marginal from beginning and it remain marginal. Why? Because absence of valuable software (comparing to amount of classic software). Except AmigaOS 4.x - practically nothing has bean created for PPC.
Same (and even worse) will be with any out of spec new CPU. The max you can expect is faster execution of 20+ year software.

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Re: Apollo Team announces developing of Vampire standalone version to run as AMIGA and ATARI ST

Postby Rajah Lone » Thu Nov 24, 2016 8:58 am

Sorgelig wrote:Look at New Genaration Amiga - it hasn't become a part of Amiga community. It was marginal from beginning and it remain marginal. Why? Because absence of valuable software (comparing to amount of classic software). Except AmigaOS 4.x - practically nothing has bean created for PPC.

I suggest you look more on the Amiga next generation space. I belong to an Amiga group which organize the "Alchimies" conventions in France. "Practically nothing created on Amiga PPC" is a very wrong statement. The Amiga production stream is not as same as for macOS or Linux, but Amiga's is far more significant than Atari's. 68K classic and PPC.

Like in Atari world, there are different tribes on Amiga. Next Gen is one of them, and it's pretty good active.

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Re: Apollo Team announces developing of Vampire standalone version to run as AMIGA and ATARI ST

Postby Sorgelig » Thu Nov 24, 2016 12:42 pm

I'm also in Amiga facebook group. Talks about NG Amiga is 0.000000%. Everything about classic 68K Amiga although both worlds are permitted. If you call talks about emulation for classic apps under AmigaOS 4.x as active.. well.. then it's kind of.

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Re: Apollo Team announces developing of Vampire standalone version to run as AMIGA and ATARI ST

Postby Rajah Lone » Thu Nov 24, 2016 4:32 pm

Then you should change your sources of informations. Facebook may not be a good idea.
If you understand French language: http://www.amiga-ng.org and http://www.amigaimpact.org/
I'm sure there are same websites in English and German.

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Re: Apollo Team announces developing of Vampire standalone version to run as AMIGA and ATARI ST

Postby Sorgelig » Fri Nov 25, 2016 11:32 am

Name of site "Amiga-NG" tells me it's not so adequate source.
I don't want to looks for sites about marginal versions of Amiga. It's enough to look about Amiga in general where 99% is about classic 68K. Almost every retro computer/console have their fans - no wonder PPC Amiga has its fan groups. But it's microscopic comparing to classic.
Compare amount of games for 68K and PPC. It will be enough to see the difference.
If it's not enough for you, then go to Amiga dedicated shop and compare amount of product for both generations to see the same difference.

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Re: Apollo Team announces developing of Vampire standalone version to run as AMIGA and ATARI ST

Postby soviet9922 » Fri Nov 25, 2016 12:21 pm

After having a very beefed up Amiga for very long time, i can say that having the vampire can be a big benefit for most folks, there tons of software on Amiga to use the extra power provided by high ends 68k a lots of ram even RTG software and a lot of ports from modern games also native Amiga commercial games that require accelerator. Emulators like mac, Nintendo, master system etc . Even video and mp3 players web browsers.
Now I'm quite new to the Atari ST i have been using my new STE for months now but seem that software that make use of extra processing power be very little to none, to justify the expending on something like the vampire will require porting or creating new software i suppose, also the Atari ST architecture don't seem to kind on upgrades for what i read.

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Re: Apollo Team announces developing of Vampire standalone version to run as AMIGA and ATARI ST

Postby calimero » Fri Nov 25, 2016 1:01 pm

Sorgelig wrote:Name of site "Amiga-NG" tells me it's not so adequate source.
I don't want to looks for sites about marginal versions of Amiga. It's enough to look about Amiga in general where 99% is about classic 68K. Almost every retro computer/console have their fans - no wonder PPC Amiga has its fan groups. But it's microscopic comparing to classic.
Compare amount of games for 68K and PPC. It will be enough to see the difference.


Here is game for NewGeneration Amiga (1GHz), it is universal SDL game available also on Mac and Windows:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziO5RbW1Uks
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Re: Apollo Team announces developing of Vampire standalone version to run as AMIGA and ATARI ST

Postby Sorgelig » Sat Nov 26, 2016 12:50 am

calimero wrote:
Sorgelig wrote:Here is game for NewGeneration Amiga (1GHz), it is universal SDL game available also on Mac and Windows:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziO5RbW1Uks

Here is a game for 400MHz ARM:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mV7nx-3G6Ls
go compare ))))))))
May be that's why 1GHz PPC Amiga worth nothing? ;)

Don't get me wrong, 7MHz 68K Amiga worth much more than rubbish 1GHz PPC version. That's because 68K version had a lot of interesting games and overall ecosystem. HW capability at that time with 7MHz CPU was outstanding.
A java-like for old phone game made for 1GHz PPC tells much more than my words here ;) It's not a level worthy "Amiga" name.

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Re: Apollo Team announces developing of Vampire standalone version to run as AMIGA and ATARI ST

Postby PeterS » Sun Nov 27, 2016 12:41 pm

I hear that the Apollo will have extra instructions, AMMX, which I gather are for faster video. Does the Coldfire have anthing similar ?

It would be a lot to ask the Coldfire designers to add support to the CPU but worth asking if it is so beneficial.


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