SMS core

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leech
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Re: SMS core

Postby leech » Mon Mar 06, 2017 3:32 pm

DrChaos wrote:
leech wrote:I was trying out different cores, and I can't seem to get this one to display on my VGA monitor (I know it does support 15khz, as I've used my ST on it.)


Sure you used the 15kHz ST core? I haven't used the ST core for a while, but as far as I remember the frequency is set by the STimage? VGA is 31kHz and only few Multisyncs are able to work with 15kHz input...


Sorry for the confusion. My real Mega STe and 1040 STe work on this monitor. It is one of the Dells that support 15kHz that I bought specifically for that reason.

Is there anything special that I am missing? I tried it with the menu.rbf, then also tried it with naming it as core.rbf. I am guessing I am missimg some config somewhere for 31kHz? Though like I said even on this other monitor, it gave me a blank screen.

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Re: SMS core

Postby vebxenon » Mon Mar 06, 2017 4:33 pm

jotego wrote:
vebxenon wrote:
Now SMS core has 15kHz support and games have now black border, so it's nicer to play. Hope new updates like better VDP, compatibility, better resolution or even FM music will follow.


I thought it already had it... I will look into it when I'm done with the Megadrive. I'll ask phoboz...


Hey. Thanks! :) The FM chip on Master System is just the same that MSX computers have, and MSX core has FM, so I think the same code can be used...

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Re: SMS core

Postby alexh » Mon Mar 06, 2017 5:48 pm

vebxenon wrote:The FM chip on Master System is just the same that MSX computers have, and MSX core has FM, so I think the same code can be used...

I thought the MSX had General Instruments AY-3-8910 (As used in Amstrad CPC & Sinclair Spectrum 128) but the SMS had the Yamaha YM2413?

Are they very similar?

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Re: SMS core

Postby phoboz » Mon Mar 06, 2017 6:25 pm

leech wrote:
DrChaos wrote:
leech wrote:I was trying out different cores, and I can't seem to get this one to display on my VGA monitor (I know it does support 15khz, as I've used my ST on it.)


Sure you used the 15kHz ST core? I haven't used the ST core for a while, but as far as I remember the frequency is set by the STimage? VGA is 31kHz and only few Multisyncs are able to work with 15kHz input...


Sorry for the confusion. My real Mega STe and 1040 STe work on this monitor. It is one of the Dells that support 15kHz that I bought specifically for that reason.

Is there anything special that I am missing? I tried it with the menu.rbf, then also tried it with naming it as core.rbf. I am guessing I am missimg some config somewhere for 31kHz? Though like I said even on this other monitor, it gave me a blank screen.


You need to set the scandoubler_disable=1 in mist.ini file, see:
https://github.com/mist-devel/mist-board/wiki/ScartCable

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leech
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Re: SMS core

Postby leech » Mon Mar 06, 2017 6:35 pm

Hmm, but that would force it to 15kHz, correct? Problem was that I couldn't get it to work at 15kHz or 31kHz. Though my monitor at home should work with either.

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Re: SMS core

Postby DrOG » Mon Mar 06, 2017 6:52 pm

The scandoubler_disable=1 option not only switches to 15kHz mode, but 'converts' the VGA socket's pin 13 (hsync) to composite sync, and pin 14 (vsync) to a 2V DC signal (fast blanking). I'm not sure your Dell monitor expects this...

You can swich between 15 and 31 kHz modes pressing long the middle (menu) button on MIST using the latest firmware.

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Re: SMS core

Postby farvardin » Mon Mar 06, 2017 10:25 pm

alexh wrote:I thought the MSX had General Instruments AY-3-8910 (As used in Amstrad CPC & Sinclair Spectrum 128) but the SMS had the Yamaha YM2413?

Are they very similar?


no they're not (AY is only square waves, the same as ym2149 on our atari, it's also called "PSG" on MSX or Amstrad), but the MSX could get cartridge extensions with FM sounds, using the YM2413 chip. It was the standard on MSX2+. There is a cool tracker for MSX (working on MiST): Trilotracker : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNCz66UpXzE

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Re: SMS core

Postby vebxenon » Mon Mar 06, 2017 10:47 pm

alexh wrote:
vebxenon wrote:The FM chip on Master System is just the same that MSX computers have, and MSX core has FM, so I think the same code can be used...

I thought the MSX had General Instruments AY-3-8910 (As used in Amstrad CPC & Sinclair Spectrum 128) but the SMS had the Yamaha YM2413?

Are they very similar?


Yes, all MSX had a PSG, and it was its primary sound chip... but also it had the YM2413 extension, called MSX-MUSIC, and known also as FM-PAC, and also used on Master System at Japan (in was an option on MARK III and included in every Master System) and thanks to Eviltim, in every country several years later :)

https://www.msx.org/wiki/MSX-MUSIC

It was a external extension although it was included also in most MSX 2+ computers and in the Turbo R. Most of >1987 japanese MSX 2 games have FM support.

For example, ALESTE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjN8fKL8dwo

here ALESTE for MASTER SYSTEM (Power Strike at Western Countries) using FM music

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbcj0-yQCqM

And here you have a rare example, a MSX 1 game: R-TYPE (The only MSX 1 game which supported FM at the time)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15O71FNw1vw

MSX standard also supported the Y8950

https://www.msx.org/wiki/MSX-AUDIO

this chip was used mostly for musicians and professional purposes. Some community games supported it, it's outstanding.

Here an example: EGGBERT, which has been known in modern systems as TOKI TORI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4jcjo0Nnec

And finally, the MSX community at 90's made a new extension... the OPL4, YMF-278B-F

Here an example of game :) Bombaman for MSX 2 (2003)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9VKHNlCIkI

and don't forget that Konami used its own sound chip, the SCC :D

The final example: SPACE MANBOW for MSX 2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcZJ64PgtgA

Regards,

Salva

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Re: SMS core

Postby leech » Mon Mar 06, 2017 10:59 pm

DrOG wrote:The scandoubler_disable=1 option not only switches to 15kHz mode, but 'converts' the VGA socket's pin 13 (hsync) to composite sync, and pin 14 (vsync) to a 2V DC signal (fast blanking). I'm not sure your Dell monitor expects this...

You can swich between 15 and 31 kHz modes pressing long the middle (menu) button on MIST using the latest firmware.


Hmm, I had tried that. But of course now thinking back on it, I may have not hit F12 afterward to bring up the menu, since I know the NES one requires that as well.

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Re: SMS core

Postby DrChaos » Tue Mar 07, 2017 9:45 am

Yes, best to check with a core known supporting 15kHz and 31kHz switching, because some cores do not. I assumed the ST core is one of them, but as said, I have not used that for a while because I am more an AMIGA guy and it may also haven been switching between Pal/NTSC.

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Re: SMS core

Postby farvardin » Sun Jul 09, 2017 7:40 am

that's strange because with the latest SMS core I can't use it on my VGA monitor. scandoubler_disable=1 is NOT enabled in my mist.ini (it's commented) and all other cores are working OK.

First time it wrote something like "out of range" (I've tested again, in fact it said "Analogic cut 31,5khz / 15 hz), like it was trying to run in 15 kHz, and the previous core (from 2016) worked fine on my system.

I've tried to download again the latest SMS core (sms_170227), explicitely set scandoubler_disable=0 in my mist.ini and this time the MiST rebooted to the default core when it tried to launch this SMS core. Then I noticed my sd card got corrupted (maybe a mere coincidence).

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Re: SMS core

Postby DrOG » Sun Jul 09, 2017 4:15 pm

Yes, modded core is '15kHz only', no more VGA compatible...

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Re: SMS core

Postby farvardin » Sun Jul 09, 2017 5:29 pm

DrOG wrote:Yes, modded core is '15kHz only', no more VGA compatible...


ok, thanks, I wasn't sure. The initial message above said:

Now SMS core has 15kHz support


I thought it was just in addition, like for other cores. Funny enough, I had to reformat my SD card and I hadn't any backup for all my files... until last week!! So I haven't lost anything.

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Re: SMS core

Postby DrOG » Thu Jul 13, 2017 6:47 pm

Strange, but the latest (modded) core works flawless in scandoubler enabled mode with my LG L1734S, altought neither my BenQ BL912, nor my old Belinea CRT shows anything except a black screen. It's definitely less compatible than the previous (non 15kHz compatible) core, which works well with all of the above mentioned monitors.
Last edited by DrOG on Fri Jul 14, 2017 3:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: SMS core

Postby leech » Thu Jul 13, 2017 9:29 pm

Weird. I know my STs work with the BenQ BL912, doesn't the SMS core do 15khz if you have scandoubler disabled?

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Re: SMS core

Postby DrOG » Fri Jul 14, 2017 3:33 am

Sorry, I corrected the previous post (wrote disabled instead of enabled). So the problem is in scandoubler ENABLED mode using the modded core, either in PAL and NTSC.

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Re: SMS core

Postby farvardin » Fri Jul 14, 2017 6:30 pm

so I don't understand, is the latest core supposed to work in scandoubler enabled? Your previous post said the opposite ("modded core is '15kHz only', no more VGA compatible"). My vga screen is LG L1750B and all MiST cores are working except this one (sms_170227)

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Re: SMS core

Postby DrOG » Fri Jul 14, 2017 6:56 pm

Yes, I tought the last (modded) core is 15 kHz only, but it seems that works in VGA mode as well if you find a monitor tolerant/compatible enough.


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