SuperVidel News

News, Support and Development discussions relating to SuperVidel.

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dml
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Re: SuperVidel News

Postby dml » Wed Mar 27, 2013 11:44 pm

The Apex sources went off to the FireBee people to have a look at their leisure and perhaps get it working - although they're probably very busy with a lot of other things to do that just now.

I promised to review the code and make it easier to identify/patch the relevant areas for supporting alternate display hardware (I didn't get very far with that yet but it's on my list).

I expect making it work on SV will be much the same, perhaps easier.

I don't remember if the original version supported Nova (The sequel did for sure but it was never finished/released).

I have heard Apex needs patched for CT60 any case - works on 040 but not 060 - I can probably do that myself now that I have one. I don't have a FireBee or likely to have a SuperVidel, unless more get produced, so somebody else may have to make patches for it if SV support is wanted, in which case I'll help where I can.

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Re: SuperVidel News

Postby Rustynutt » Thu Mar 28, 2013 1:09 am

shoggoth wrote:
Rustynutt wrote:Kind of a related question. Is Alternate RAM on the CT60 loaded into the system with MALLOC, ie, available with the CT60 off or on?


The F030 bus on the motherboard has 23 address pins + high/low data strobes. That means it's limited to 16 megs, and that's 16 megs of ST RAM. It can't possibly access the CT60 SDRAM.

Guess I didn't say what I mean. Apex as does the Expose have access to the alternate ram on the AB card, so am wondering even if 060 is "off" does the alternate ram it carries remain available to the system. I think a card called the Magnum did this on the Falcon expansion pins, without the necessity of a cpu, other than what is on the falcon bus. RAM on the Mighty Sonic , not so sure about the AB, can be allocated simply with with MALLOC, and that code would be useful to access ram on the CT60 if possible. It's probably a simple NO, but have to ask.

However, without Apex Media compatibility (what is the purpose of the card if not for that application?), and RGB video modes not supported (sure, APEX works in VGA, AIRC has limitations in that mode), and without alternate RAM to capture too, the ideal configuration for that set up remains an Afterburner, with Alternate RAM, easily running either VIDEL or quickly booting to NOVA drivers for graphics editing outside of VIDEL graphics.


RGB video modes not supported, well, to be honest - this is a graphics card designed fore high screen resolutions and modern monitors. VIDEL output is still available, and exactly how it can be used remains to be seen, but the VIDEL *isn't* switched "off". It's still there. So in theory you could run RGB stuff on it. But if that's your usage scenario, then why would you want a SuperVidel to begin with?

Because during conception, it was RGB compatible, not up scaling RGB to VGA output. I know it does much more, but in some cases the less part hurts some configurations.

The APEX sources have been released, so it shouldn't be too difficult for anyone to patch it to support higher screen resolutions on VGA screens, and to support the SuperVidel.

That solves everything!

Not debating the usefulness of the implementation of the SuperVidel, only now the primary purpose for at least one of the Falcons here looks like it will continue to be an Afterburner, Expose, and NOVA ATI MACH 64 for functionality.


Does the Nova support APEX and RGB modes?


That's simple, two auto folders and about a 20 second boot :) There was a test capture prg either you or dave sent me years ago that works on the NOVA using the Expose to capture video. I wanted to keep all this Falcon, from what it looks like, run the AB Falcon and Expose on a network where captured and edited videos can have audio added and compressed using Sony Vegas, or worse yet, a Mac.....

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Re: SuperVidel News

Postby viking272 » Sun Apr 28, 2013 1:54 pm

I see a little snippet of SV info was posted here:

http://dhs.nu/bbs-ct60/index.php?request=13214

Sounds simple and I wish I had ordered one last year!
Maybe another (cheaper) production run can be made?? :D

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Re: SuperVidel News

Postby shoggoth » Fri May 17, 2013 9:16 am

dml wrote:I expect making it work on SV will be much the same, perhaps easier.


I haven't looked at the APEX sources, but if it's 060 compatible, it'll be SV compatible out of the box unless you use the legacy blitter a lot (in which case it'll still work, but look funny).

If you just want to accellerate screen operations slightly:

- To accellerate existing code, use an OR mask (0xA0000000) on the framebuffer pointer. This causes rendering to be carried out directly in fast VRAM instead of STRAM (which is snooped by SV hardware and replicated in VRAM). This is 1 line of code, and will improve speed a bit.

If you want to use some new fancy screen resolution like 1920x1080x16bpp (VIDEL-compatible pixel format):

- Use new modecodes. The SV uses the original Falcon API, so just set a higher resolution using the new bits in the modecode word. Note however that higher SV-specific resolutions does not use the original 24-bit VIDEL framebuffer pointer, which means that if you set the screenbase directly using the hw registers, you'll need to alter the code slightly.

Naturally you could use the SuperBlitter for stuff as well, but that means rewriting some fundamental parts of the application, I guess.
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Re: SuperVidel News

Postby dml » Fri May 17, 2013 10:06 am

Thanks for the info - that will probably help quite a bit already.

I don't know if Apex is 060 compatible or not - I've heard that it isn't and will assume that's the case. Since it is 040 compatible, the reason for it not working must be quite narrow :-) It's probably using move16 and maybe some 040 cache flags if detected. Something in that area maybe.

Supporting higher resolutions might be a problem for Apex because the UI was only built for multiples of 320x200, not being a GEM application. But fast display writes using the shadow address range, and SuperBlitter could be useful. I don't remember if Apex uses the blitter but there will be block transfers happening especially for memory management if not display.

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Re: SuperVidel News

Postby mdivancic » Fri May 17, 2013 10:32 am

So, any news on how the guys are doing?
Mikey
Atari Falcon 030, CT-63 w/128MB @ 76MHz, 14 MB RamGizmo, SuperVidel + SvethLANa
Atari TT030, CaTTamaran, 4 MB ST-Ram, 16 MB TT-RAM, ECL2VGA
Amiga 4000T (QuickPak), OS 3.9, QuickPak 060 w/128 MB, Picasso IV, A2065, AD516
Commodore 128D, 1084S monitor, RAMLink, CMD 4.1GB Hardrive
Commodore SX-64

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Re: SuperVidel News

Postby shoggoth » Fri May 17, 2013 11:02 am

mdivancic wrote:So, any news on how the guys are doing?


Some boards have been shipped, and more boards will be shipped over time.
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Re: SuperVidel News

Postby shoggoth » Fri May 17, 2013 11:06 am

dml wrote:Thanks for the info - that will probably help quite a bit already.

I don't know if Apex is 060 compatible or not - I've heard that it isn't and will assume that's the case. Since it is 040 compatible, the reason for it not working must be quite narrow :-) It's probably using move16 and maybe some 040 cache flags if detected. Something in that area maybe.

Supporting higher resolutions might be a problem for Apex because the UI was only built for multiples of 320x200, not being a GEM application. But fast display writes using the shadow address range, and SuperBlitter could be useful. I don't remember if Apex uses the blitter but there will be block transfers happening especially for memory management if not display.


Multiples of 320x200 can be added if needed :) I guess 80 (160?) column 16bpp modes would be appreciated by some APEX fans.

Blitter block transfers is no problem, but if the destination is the physical screen, the SV won't display it correctly (blitter transaction will work as expected within STRAM, there is just no reliable way to snoop them and replicate them as VRAM writes).

I might look into this myself since the sources are available, but it's always nice to have some input from the author himself in such case, naturally!
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Re: SuperVidel News

Postby Moulinaie » Sun May 19, 2013 6:48 am

shoggoth wrote:
mdivancic wrote:So, any news on how the guys are doing?


Some boards have been shipped, and more boards will be shipped over time.


Can I know when I will receive mine?
I think you are respecting the order.

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Re: SuperVidel News

Postby shoggoth » Mon May 20, 2013 6:50 am

Moulinaie wrote:Can I know when I will receive mine?
I think you are respecting the order.

Gullaume Tello.


Hi Guillaume,

Try asking the Henc0x/InSTream directly in a PM/email for delivery info. AFAIK boards are shipped in order of payment, except if you happen to meet the Nature brothers at some Atari party.
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Re: SuperVidel News

Postby instream » Mon May 20, 2013 3:18 pm

Moulinaie wrote:
shoggoth wrote:
mdivancic wrote:So, any news on how the guys are doing?


Some boards have been shipped, and more boards will be shipped over time.


Can I know when I will receive mine?
I think you are respecting the order.

Gullaume Tello.

The shipping is currently stopped due to new found bugs. See nature.atari.org news. Otherwise we ship in order of payment except when we meet people at atari parties. Also company orders got priority to get them sent in the same quarter because of tax agency reporting.

/Torbjörn

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Re: SuperVidel News

Postby mdivancic » Tue May 21, 2013 12:06 am

Thank you very much for the update. I've been wondering. At this point its worth waiting to have it right.
Mikey
Atari Falcon 030, CT-63 w/128MB @ 76MHz, 14 MB RamGizmo, SuperVidel + SvethLANa
Atari TT030, CaTTamaran, 4 MB ST-Ram, 16 MB TT-RAM, ECL2VGA
Amiga 4000T (QuickPak), OS 3.9, QuickPak 060 w/128 MB, Picasso IV, A2065, AD516
Commodore 128D, 1084S monitor, RAMLink, CMD 4.1GB Hardrive
Commodore SX-64

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Re: SuperVidel News

Postby mdivancic » Tue Jun 18, 2013 11:01 pm

New update:

2013-06-18 16:05:33
We are now content with the firmware update program and procedure. The program has been put under Downloads, and we have updated the installation manual and other docs there too.

Meanwhile all SuperVidels but 14 have been tested, and only 3 failed. The remaining 14 needed minor repairs by the manufacturer and have just returned from them. So they are ready for testing. The three failed Svethlanas have also been returned to the manufacturer and they will replace the components that we think are broken.

The shipment process has been started again, but please don't flood us with questions about when your board will be sent.
Mikey
Atari Falcon 030, CT-63 w/128MB @ 76MHz, 14 MB RamGizmo, SuperVidel + SvethLANa
Atari TT030, CaTTamaran, 4 MB ST-Ram, 16 MB TT-RAM, ECL2VGA
Amiga 4000T (QuickPak), OS 3.9, QuickPak 060 w/128 MB, Picasso IV, A2065, AD516
Commodore 128D, 1084S monitor, RAMLink, CMD 4.1GB Hardrive
Commodore SX-64

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Re: SuperVidel News

Postby Paolo » Tue Jun 18, 2013 11:23 pm

Well, right now my first concern is the shipping method. I really hope they'll chose a good courier, since Italian postal service is a complete wreck. Only private companies deliver reasonable service.
(just think: Apple had the great idea of shipping a replacement iPod via unregistered package! Guess what? It got "lost" and Apple apologised and shipped again with UPS/DHL -I can't remember which one- !!! )

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Re: SuperVidel News

Postby Dal » Tue Jun 18, 2013 11:35 pm

Mine arrived safe and sound. Just waiting on my CT63 falcon to come back from Rodolphe now.
TT030: 4MB/16MB + Crazy Dots, Mega"SST" 12, STacy 2, MegaSTE, STE: Desktopper case, IDE interface, UltraSatan (8GB + 512Mb) + HXC floppy emulator. Plus some STE's/STFM's

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Re: SuperVidel News

Postby instream » Wed Jun 19, 2013 7:05 am

Dal wrote:Mine arrived safe and sound. Just waiting on my CT63 falcon to come back from Rodolphe now.

Great to hear that you got it. :) Just remember to upgrade it when you finally install it. And don't press on or touch any IC when installing the SV. Just a reminder to everybody.

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Re: SuperVidel News

Postby instream » Wed Jun 19, 2013 7:09 am

Paolo wrote:Well, right now my first concern is the shipping method. I really hope they'll chose a good courier, since Italian postal service is a complete wreck. Only private companies deliver reasonable service.
(just think: Apple had the great idea of shipping a replacement iPod via unregistered package! Guess what? It got "lost" and Apple apologised and shipped again with UPS/DHL -I can't remember which one- !!! )

We send all packages with insurance, but still using regular postal services. If one would get lost it would be hard to replace. Can you tell us what other companies you trust, so we can use them when sending to you since the Italian post is so unreliable?

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Re: SuperVidel News

Postby mdivancic » Wed Jun 19, 2013 10:30 am

instream wrote:And don't press on or touch any IC when installing the SV. Just a reminder to everybody.

Why, sensitive to ESD or something else?
Mikey
Atari Falcon 030, CT-63 w/128MB @ 76MHz, 14 MB RamGizmo, SuperVidel + SvethLANa
Atari TT030, CaTTamaran, 4 MB ST-Ram, 16 MB TT-RAM, ECL2VGA
Amiga 4000T (QuickPak), OS 3.9, QuickPak 060 w/128 MB, Picasso IV, A2065, AD516
Commodore 128D, 1084S monitor, RAMLink, CMD 4.1GB Hardrive
Commodore SX-64

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Re: SuperVidel News

Postby Dal » Wed Jun 19, 2013 11:13 am

You should really only apply pressure to the connectors. Pressing down in the middle of the board makes no sense as it's only going to flex the board which is never a good thing to do. Protecting the board against ESD is always a good idea.
TT030: 4MB/16MB + Crazy Dots, Mega"SST" 12, STacy 2, MegaSTE, STE: Desktopper case, IDE interface, UltraSatan (8GB + 512Mb) + HXC floppy emulator. Plus some STE's/STFM's

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Re: SuperVidel News

Postby instream » Wed Jun 19, 2013 5:08 pm

Dal wrote:You should really only apply pressure to the connectors. Pressing down in the middle of the board makes no sense as it's only going to flex the board which is never a good thing to do. Protecting the board against ESD is always a good idea.

Yes :) My fingertips are hurting right now from testing 100 boards...

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Re: SuperVidel News

Postby Paolo » Wed Jun 19, 2013 6:46 pm

instream wrote:We send all packages with insurance, but still using regular postal services. If one would get lost it would be hard to replace. Can you tell us what other companies you trust, so we can use them when sending to you since the Italian post is so unreliable?


Insured registered is OK, since it is handeled by SDA courier on behalf of Poste Italiane. Still, I prefer UPS or DHL.

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Re: SuperVidel News

Postby evil » Sun Jul 14, 2013 11:21 am

dml wrote:Thanks for the info - that will probably help quite a bit already.
I don't know if Apex is 060 compatible or not - I've heard that it isn't and will assume that's the case.


I've used Apex a lot on Falcon 060 when doing some demos, browsing through the source directory of Derealization just now and it's full of .apx files :) I seem to remember that early versions had some problems, but the newer ones works fine.

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Re: SuperVidel News

Postby shoggoth » Sun Jul 14, 2013 12:28 pm

evil wrote:I've used Apex a lot on Falcon 060 when doing some demos, browsing through the source directory of Derealization just now and it's full of .apx files :) I seem to remember that early versions had some problems, but the newer ones works fine.


Did you test it on the SuperVidel? Since sources are available, maybe it could be interesting to make some initial/rudimentary SuperVidel-patches for higher resolutions etc.
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Re: SuperVidel News

Postby Fenix » Sun Jul 14, 2013 12:49 pm

I guess there is no shot whatsoever of getting a supervidel if you're late to the party?

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Re: SuperVidel News

Postby dml » Sun Jul 14, 2013 12:58 pm

Fenix wrote:I guess there is no shot whatsoever of getting a supervidel if you're late to the party?


^^^ yes, copy that? :)


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