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Demo scene

Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 11:48 am
by mrtwilight
Hi all I just brought my first st a few weeks ago after many years being a amiga fan, was the demo scene as big on the st as the amiga?

Re: Demo scene

Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 11:56 am
by spiny

Re: Demo scene

Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 12:10 pm
by mrtwilight
Great sites thanks

Re: Demo scene

Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 11:21 pm
by guythp
I found back then that Amiga demos displayed presentation whilst the ST ones showed technical achievement, almost trying to catch up with the Amiga's abilities in many cases (something I denied for many years since 1989 until a few years back, when someone on another forum simply said 'the amiga cost £100 more, of course it could do more').
There are many more demos on the miggy that look impressive (State of the Art an obvious one, Jesus on E's etc, as well as many, many technically impressive ones I may add) whilst the ST's more impressive ones are the ones that show the machine doing what it shouldn't be able to (there are many demos that are also fun to watch, but there is in my view an adverse balance between the two).
What I'm trying to say is that if you understand the ST then you'll appreciate the demos a bit more, as there are few 'entertaining' demos than on the amiga. Oh, and I hope you like mad max music ;)

tldr:
Yes, I'd say the ST scene was as big as the Amiga scene. we just concentrated on other aspects of a demo.

Re: Demo scene

Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 3:22 am
by Sturm
Always preferred the ST scene because of this. (I got a St then an Amiga).
The coders had to work with a lot of technical limitations but they did wonders. Can't describe my feeling when i saw the first full screen demo.
I strongly recommend this book, it's a real gem :

https://www.microzeit.com/anthology/

Re: Demo scene

Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:27 am
by DarkLord
Sturm wrote:I strongly recommend this book, it's a real gem :


I saw what you did there! :)

(GEM)...

Re: Demo scene

Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:54 pm
by Atari030
I used to hang with a few Amiga nuts back in the 80's and 90's. When all those ST demos came out doing all the things they said it couldn't do, it was pure gold. There were things the Atari could do better, just not as easily. That is when it showed off programming talent.

I used nail their butts to the wall on F-16, Vroom and Stunt car racer too, null modem. Ah, the good ole days....

Re: Demo scene

Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:11 pm
by lotek_style
[quote="guythp"]

tldr:
Yes, I'd say the ST scene was as big as the Amiga scene. we just concentrated on other aspects of a demo.[/quote]


I disagree... the Amiga scene is triple the size of the ST scene.

Re: Demo scene

Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 3:33 pm
by guythp
lotek_style wrote:I disagree... the Amiga scene is triple the size of the ST scene.


Maybe now but I was referring to over 30 years ago and I don't recall that many more productions coming out on the Amiga. Not quality ones. The may have been more but triple?

Re: Demo scene

Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 4:27 pm
by lotek_style
Guytp: Even back then it was bigger... Believe me... I'm the master of the archives and I have actual numbers.

Kestra has over 70.000 entries: http://janeway.exotica.org.uk/search.php

while my Archive has about 24000 ST entries.... ftp://fujiology.untergrund.net/users/lt ... fujiology/

do the math.

Re: Demo scene

Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 4:33 pm
by lotek_style
... and as I have the feeling people still will not believe me... check the sales figures here:

https://amigalove.com/viewtopic.php?t=131

Re: Demo scene

Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 4:35 pm
by troed
Sales of demos? :D

Everyone knows that Amiga users only used their machines for gaming ;)

Re: Demo scene

Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 4:38 pm
by lotek_style
Troed: See post before. Period.

Re: Demo scene

Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 7:00 pm
by guythp
lotek_style wrote:Guytp: Even back then it was bigger... Believe me... I'm the master of the archives and I have actual numbers.

Kestra has over 70.000 entries: http://janeway.exotica.org.uk/search.php

while my Archive has about 24000 ST entries.... ftp://fujiology.untergrund.net/users/lt ... fujiology/

do the math.


Even now the Amiga trumps us on presentation ( ;) ).

But more seriously thank you for those links. I guess I was wilfully ignorant of most amiga releases as my mate who owned one of those games-machines-with-a-keyboard-bolted-on-as-an-afterthought ( :D ) must have only got the major demo releases.

Re: Demo scene

Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 5:40 am
by mikro
Yeah, the Amiga scene has always been bigger, much bigger. They still can maintain a news site (sites!) where new releases (apps, games, demos) appear nearly every day. Compare it to our news. ;)

Re: Demo scene

Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 4:28 pm
by DarkLord
Bigger doesn't always = better.

Take Microsoft for example... :)

Re: Demo scene

Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 8:42 pm
by keops
guythp wrote:I don't recall that many more productions coming out on the Amiga. Not quality ones.

You probably missed a lot of good demos then, Amiga had its share of amazing demos, a lot.

Re: Demo scene

Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 9:02 pm
by guythp
keops wrote:
guythp wrote:I don't recall that many more productions coming out on the Amiga. Not quality ones.

You probably missed a lot of good demos then, Amiga had its share of amazing demos, a lot.


Any recommendations would be appreciated. I'm familiar (or I thought I was) with the releases the came out when the machine was still commercially active (up to around 1995 as that was around the time I sold my A1200) but I'd be more interested in ST equivalent (ie: A500) demos.. Hideous Mutant Freaks was one more recent one that impressed me but any that push the machine I'd love to see!

Sorry for hogging this thread, btw. :)

Re: Demo scene

Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 10:33 pm
by keops

Re: Demo scene

Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 8:49 am
by lotek_style
Forget poudead... latest Atari ST stuff can be found here:

https://demozoo.org/productions/?platfo ... tion_type=

Re: Demo scene

Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:12 am
by dhedberg
lotek_style wrote:Forget poudead... latest Atari ST stuff can be found here:
https://demozoo.org/productions/?platfo ... tion_type=

True, but to be honest, demozoo lacks a lot when it comes to being able to find the "good stuff". It doesn't list release parties (and the result, e.g., "1st at The Party 1999"), and it has no voting system so it is hard to know the quality of a demo. Pouet has an advantage here as it's been around for quite a while, with a voting system in place, so you're able to sort out the good from the bad fairly easily and accurately,

Re: Demo scene

Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 11:10 am
by lotek_style
Daniel: Where "does it not" list release parties? If you mean in the search-engine... then yes that's still a big mess... but then on the other hand being in top ten on pouet does not necessarily mean "good stuff" as everything is a matter of taste. You have to go through everything... no matter if pouet or any other site.

Re: Demo scene

Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 11:57 am
by dhedberg
lotek_style wrote:Daniel: Where "does it not" list release parties? If you mean in the search-engine... then yes that's still a big mess... but then on the other hand being in top ten on pouet does not necessarily mean "good stuff" as everything is a matter of taste. You have to go through everything... no matter if pouet or any other site.

Yes, I was thinking about the search results. Regarding a voting system. It's true that it's a matter of taste (and commitment by the users), but overall it gives a pretty accurate result. Check the first 200 and the last 200 demos when listing Atari ST demos/intros, sorted by thumb ups (at Pouet) for instance. You can quickly find (most of) the gems among all releases. It'd probably be hard for demozoo to introduce a voting system though as there would be such a huge number of demos to vote up/down for everyone (a critical number of users) before the results become fair.

Re: Demo scene

Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 2:11 pm
by Ragstaff
Speaking of this, I'm a bit out of touch. Pouet used to be the site you went to for demo's. What's the deal with demozoo starting up, people saying pouet is dead and some people clearly not liking Pouet anymore? Was there some big fight or something?

Re: Demo scene

Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 5:50 pm
by lotek_style
Ragstaff: Between the two websites... definitely NO... I have my personal reasons for this. One major reason... pouet is too limited to do proper preservation as we do on demozoo.